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sugaring newbie

Started by doc henderson, September 15, 2020, 05:04:35 PM

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doc henderson

As you all know we do a lot of logging and tapping trees for sap in Kansas.  not.  so i have rounded up friends and neighbors that have maple and walnut trees we plan to tap.  i have a book.  i will need spiles and a way to capture the sap.  i will need and evaporator.  I have a 60 L 15 gallon pan I use for beer brewing with a thermometer and spout.  I understand that the sap to syrup ratios can be 40 to 80:1.  will need large volume storage, and or boil as we go.  I can get new 1 gallon milk cartons.  was thinking of food grade liners for 5 gallon buckets at the tree.  am looking at stainless spiles to reuse vs cheap plastic disposable ones.  where do you all get you equipment from.  quite a bit on amazon.  @Cardiodoc has a fair number of trees on his 20 acres.  this will also be a Troop 1 winter project.  so scouts can tap a tree in their yard and make syrup.  I will keep reading, but i know we have experts here.  I hope to find 50 trees or more.  What say you.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

A-z farmer

Doc
We use Grimm out of Canada and there is also the Leader evaporators company.
I think we still have some of the wooden sap buckets and metal buckets with metal lids but they have not been used in 40 years .Every thing now is plastic and some stainless steel.
I have never heard of tapping a walnut tree before so I am going to follow along on your journey .

doc henderson

they say it is a nutty flavor, and some mix it with maple.  as i look around, we have some of both trees.  some folks will even make a blend.  My BIL has a buddy that is big into harvesting his own animals and veggies, and has been doing the walnut syrup.  i think it is closer to 80:1 ratio.  that is why i joke about Ks being the "syrup capitol of the world".  not.   :D  , but it will be a fun experience for the kids, old and young alike!!!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

thecfarm

I am in Maine so have it easy to find sugaring supplies. We bought about 20 used buckets. Most do the lines now and go to a big tank. Mine trees are all over the place so hard to do lines.
I was going to built  a sugar shack. But being a diabetic now, I would have to give it all away. Not a bad thing, but being around and not tasting it would almost impossible.  :( 
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

chrissheerman

Look up Bascom maple products in New Hampshire they are basically in my back yard and sell everything for sugaring pretty sure they also do shipping right to your house. 
For cheap starter sap buckets I've seen a lot of people use milk bottles and a piece of line and tap to feed into it. Just need to make sure mice and chipmunks don't get into your sap buckets. Can use a food grade 250 gallon caged tote for cheap transporting in back of truck or to feed your sugaring arch. Starting out bascoms sell used stuff but you could go beginner old school and use cinder blocks and a flat pan from ebay to start out with see if you like doing it. You don't need to spend huge money or buy super fancy things to get started. Back in high school a friend and I ran his grand fathers old 2x6 arch and when the syrup makes an apron coming off your scoop or spoon instead of just running off your done. 
The maple trader forum always had lots of info too. Good luck with your sugaring 

SunnyHillFarm

I second the Maple Trader Forum for useful information. A hands on guide: Maple Syrup, An introduction to the Science of a Forest Treasure by Mike Rechlin  from West Virginia is available through The McDonald & Woodward Publishing Company, Newark  Ohio. This book is written for a broad audience, from beginner to experienced syrup maker. Good Luck and Have fun!!

thecfarm

Did someone say cider blocks?  ;D



 

It gets better. 



 

I posted a bunch of pictures on other posts. But you can go to my gallery, it's under maple syrup, easy to find. One thing I did not get a picture of, I kept another pot full of sap, a prewarmer, than it went into the boiler.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

kantuckid

I've made syrup here on our place for years. I tap ~ 75 sugar maple trees into plastic food grade buckets I got free from Walmart & Kroger bakeries and some restaurants. I only use buckets with a lid, drill a hole for the blue sap tubing near the top and collect into 55 gallon plastic drums mtd on my utility trailer. My evaporator is a SS pan I bought on ebay cheap which is 6" deep and barely fits into the rectangular hole I cut into the top of a common barrel stove I built for syrup only. I have two joints of galvanized cheap stove pipe with a storm cap on the stove. I park it permanently next to my firewood stash in the edge of a pasture. A shed roof would be a great improvement and I've considered moving the evaporator to the big door of a barn for rainy days which are common in syrup season.
I tap with a cordless drill, 19/64 bit, carry a hammer & use the commonly sold black plastic spiles and commonly sold blue tubing with however many buckets a trees size determines. I leave a few flat rocks near each maple trees base to level my buckets.
The pic of concrete blocks shows a way to break up a bunch of blocks. They don't like heat and soon fall apart. Guess how I know? :D  
It is backbreaking work given that my lines are not gravity into large tanks as the big guys do. 
40/1 sap to syrup ratio as compared to a local syrup made commercially in my area-sorghum, which is boiled 8/1 ratio. Actually a sorghum pan would work for maple sap but large and expensive for my size project. 

I boil until it's close to done and thickening then transfer to a canner on kitchen stove while starting anew batch. We store the syrup in mason jars until into our fridge to eat. Taste wise it's whats called Kettle Syrup as the proximity all that smoke affects the flavor some. 
Aside from my collection means a greatly limiting factor in KY is the weather can be counter to the temperature swings seen further north in syrup areas. Sap runs good here in most early(nasty) sap runs but can get too warm at night just prior to trees budding.
Like any stuff you buy the tubing and spiles are cheaper some places and the google search will teach you much as well from whats sold and asking them questions.
 Remember that the saps organic and spoils if the weather warms up!
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

doc henderson

the evaporators that have divisions in the pan, and a chamber up on top at one end.  is that so the syrup can flow as it evaporates, and be more continuous?  what is the upper part of the pan for.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

GAB

Quote from: doc henderson on September 19, 2020, 11:31:29 AM
the evaporators that have divisions in the pan, and a chamber up on top at one end.  is that so the syrup can flow as it evaporates, and be more continuous?  what is the upper part of the pan for.
Doc:
Usually the upper pan is to capture some of the waste heat and pre heat the raw sap so when it enters the boiling pan it is already near boiling temperature, there by increasing efficiency.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

doc henderson

and are the divisions in the pan, for sequential thickening and out at the end of the line? 
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

GAB

Quote from: doc henderson on September 19, 2020, 01:57:49 PM
and are the divisions in the pan, for sequential thickening and out at the end of the line?
Theorethically yes
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Chuck White

@GAB is correct, the upper part in the back end is a preheater!

The front pan with the dividers in it flow so that the closer it gets to the drawoff valve, the sweeter it is, otherwise the whole front pan would be wanting to draw off at the same time!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

GAB

The reason I said theorectically yes is that one time my dad had syrup in the third partition in the front pan of a 5x16 evaporator.  How that happened I do not know and all I did is as I was told, which might have been stand back.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Chuck White

GAB, that usually happens when the evaporator has been setting idle for a few days, with no activity going on, it gives the whole front pan the opportunity to blend!

When that happens all of the portioned sections in the front pan have the same or "just about" the same level of sweetness!

I think I explained the correctly!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

doc henderson

I assume the dividers, have slots at opposite ends to let the syrup flow, as you add more, or open the valve.  I think I will bet stainless spiles, and use tubing to drop into covered 5 gallon buckets.  we have the Dillon headquarters here (much of the family still here).  I am not sure if they own Kroger, or the other way around.  I will see about food grad containers.  also the food grade liners may work if we have to use other type barrels.  I plana to boil some as we go.  maybe to 1/4 the original volume.  I will get an evaporator and put it on a wood stove.  could put it on the open part of our smoker.  
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

GAB

Doc:
FYI sap degrades quickly, and the warmer the temperature the faster it goes downhill.  It needs to be boiled as soon as possible.  You can concentrate it some and finish it later, however I would suggest keeping it close to 32°F until you finish it.
As an example a number of years back one of my uncles decided to shut down at 10:00 PM and when he started back up early in the AM the syrup produced had dropped 2 grade levels.  From Fancy to low A. 
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

btulloh

I always enjoy these threads about sugaring.  It'll be interesting to follow Doc's journey all the way to the pancakes.  The other thread that the big producers have every year is quite interesting to follow, but it'll be good to see the other end of the spectrum.

My area and climate don't offer the opportunity to do this here, but I do enjoy following others and it makes my maple syrup taste better.  :)

Keep us in the loop Doc!
HM126

doc henderson

I will, thanks all.  the issue will be keeping it cold.  i have room on the north end (shade) of my shop to keep the barrels.  and hope to boil enough to reduce the volume, and then finish.  i did get to try the walnut sap/syrup.  was at my BILs house and he had some thin stuff in a mason jar in the fridge.  had a good flavor, but not maple flavored.  tastes good after you know what to expect, and are not expecting maple.  some of my beer brewing equipment will come in handy.  do you feel the wood smoke near the syrup is an off flavor?  deciding if I should use propane burner or a wood stove.  but i can get a 2 x 4 foot evaporator on the big smoker, and it can get to 500 degrees.(with the lid down).  is the indirect heat better,  I am sure some smoke flavor will get to the syrup.  i do not want the flavor to be too complex, and be off putting to people who expect all syrup to be maple.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

randy d

Doc when we started cooking sap 30 or more years ago I took a 55 gal drum and cut it length wise and bent the top up and made  a frame out of angle iron and had a friend make a pan that would fit the frame and we used a barrel stove kit for the door and legs  I made some grates for the fire box and 3 lengths of stove pipe we have cooked any where from 2 to 5 gallons a year for all those years and plan on doing it again this spring. the stove pipe gets so hot it turns red and you can turn a hot dog black in seconds. Randy

Chuck White

Doc; yes, there are openings on alternating ends of each divider to allow the sweet stuff move towards the draw-off valve!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

kantuckid

Smoke from my barrel stove does not give the syrup an off taste! ZERO!

 If she was still alive you could ask Grandma Moses who painted a famous picture of making kettle syrup -shows a large cast iron kettle on a ground fire.

 With two short, cheap galvanized flue sections and a storm cap most smoke will be above the pan and you. Those KS perennial winds will decide how much smoke yer eyes & face get? :D

In KS climate being ready for the first sap runs will matter as the season peters out fast with weather patterns lately. Up north the temp ebbs more thus better sap runs.
I get runs where a larger tree will have me emptying the buckets daily!
Two buckets carried steep KY hills is not work for the timid! Makes me appreciate my trees beside the woods roads for sure. 
 Signs of budding and the sap gets bad tasting too. My weather usually is cold enough to store sap OK as it coincides with flow & budding. Only the very last runs are a concern as you'd think since budding equals warmer temps. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

GAB

Two buckets carried steep KY hills is not work for the timid!
One good slip of either foot and someone could be the lucky recipient of a cold sap bath.
Had it happen more than once.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

doc henderson

did a test tap of a neighbors maple tree.  It has been warm, so has some buds on it.  nice steady drip.  tastes ok.  just going to do a 2 liter bottle for a few days to see if we should get going.  a paper I read from K-state said usually mid Jan.  tapped a big red maple at @Jim Thomas house across the street.  here we go.  getting some food grade liners for buckets.  the tubing I ordered for my 5/16th taps is really 3/8th inside diam..  do need some a bit smaller or a clamp.



 


 


 


Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

GAB

@doc henderson :o
Couple of things - you mentioned using metal spiles or taps rather than plastic.
You have to be careful using metal spiles when hammering them in.  If you crack the bark of the tree some of your potential sap will flow down the side of the tree.  Plastic ones are a bit more forgiving in that respect.
Second thing - If you know someone who bakes pies I believe they get the fruits for fruit pies in squarish plastic containers with reusable tops.  If you can acquire some of those and drill a hole in the side and hook them over the spile it should work.
Third thing - If you are looking for work for someone and get some fruit containers drill a hole on both sides and paint a 4" red spot under the hole on one side and a black spot on the other side so you can tell from a distance which containers have been collected that day and which have not from a distance.
If I think of something else I'll send you another 2¢'s.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

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