:'( I am still struggling with sharpening and setting of blades. I have the Catsclaw sharpener and dual setter. After I sharpen and set they just do not seem to last. Yesterday I installed a blade that I sharpened and on the first cut it took a dive in the first 10 inches. I then installed a new Timberking and it cut fine. Any advice (except sending them out) would be appreciated.
Sounds like your sets from side to side are off, check the set again, surely you will find a difference, david
And as with any problem like this,try ONE thing at a time to fix the problem. Good luck. It all takes time. Took me a while to find out what I was doing wrong when sharping my chainsaw too. I ruined a few chains trying. ::)
In the words of Tim Cook, A blade that dives is not flat,Did you buy your Catsclaw new, If so give Cooks a call. I would say even if you didn't get it new they would explain whats going on with a diving blade...
Sam..
I've seen plenty of flat blades dive- pitch build up, lack of or incorrect set, set off side to side.
What hook angle is your sharpener at, try 7° with good set. Are you grinding enough off the face of the tooth to get a sharp point? Do you have your mill set up with 1/4" down pressure. Steve
I agree with David, I think your set is off, side-to-side!
Vfauto,
I have a catclaws and a dual setter. There are a lot of things that can cause a blade to dive so may I ask a couple of dumb questions? Do you have the correct cam for the blade? More important is the setup for setting the blades, it takes me longer to set up for each blade than it takes to set the blade. The setup steel (blank blade steel) and a some time in the manual and a couple of hours will get it ready for the individual blade set up. Much bigger learning curve than the sharpener.
If you purchased the sharpener and setter new, I'm sure Cooks will be helpful. Even if you purchased it used, give them a try, I think they will be helpful.
I have had good luck with the sharpener and setter, but it took a while to get the setting correct, thirty or forthy blades.
Good luck!
ARp
When I bought my mill and sharpening equipment, Tim told me I would be better off with the single tooth setter until I at least got the hang of things... I am going to up grade to the dual shortly, but I think I did right by getting the single setter to start with... I did change out the dial indicator for a better brand as I was having a little trouble with it...
When you finish sharpening do you still see shiny spots on the corner of the teeth? If you do send it around again after a slight adjustment...Shine means you still have a dull blade, but I bet you have problems with the set. Banjo
I use the same cam for all my blades, it should not make a difference because it just changes the profile to a cooks profile??????
Quote from: Banjo picker on September 01, 2013, 02:30:38 PM
When I bought my mill and sharpening equipment, Tim told me I would be better off with the single tooth setter until I at least got the hang of things... I am going to up grade to the dual shortly, but I think I did right by getting the single setter to start with... I did change out the dial indicator for a better brand as I was having a little trouble with it...
When you finish sharpening do you still see shiny spots on the corner of the teeth? If you do send it around again after a slight adjustment...Shine means you still have a dull blade, but I bet you have problems with the set. Banjo
Just asking . Why did you quote me... I said nothing about cams. ??? Banjo
I'm with Banjo. I bet your dual tooth setter is setting one side more than the other. One advantage of the single tooth model is both sides will always be the same. Use a dial caliper on the offending blade to check the set..
I would have to say it's the moveable jaw, one side is not getting set quite as much as the other, david
Sorry hit wrong quote button!
Quote from: Banjo picker on September 01, 2013, 09:06:37 PM
Just asking . Why did you quote me... I said nothing about cams. ??? Banjo
I use the same cam for all my blades, it should not make a difference because it just changes the profile to a cooks profile??????
Quote from: ARp on September 01, 2013, 01:40:57 PM
Vfauto,
I have a catclaws and a dual setter. There are a lot of things that can cause a blade to dive so may I ask a couple of dumb questions? Do you have the correct cam for the blade? More important is the setup for setting the blades, it takes me longer to set up for each blade than it takes to set the blade. The setup steel (blank blade steel) and a some time in the manual and a couple of hours will get it ready for the individual blade set up. Much bigger learning curve than the sharpener.
If you purchased the sharpener and setter new, I'm sure Cooks will be helpful. Even if you purchased it used, give them a try, I think they will be helpful.
I have had good luck with the sharpener and setter, but it took a while to get the setting correct, thirty or forthy blades.
Good luck!
ARp
Sounds like a set problem to me also.
Did you zero our the setter before you started?
Another thing to consider since you are new at this game is you could possibly be dulling the blade when setting it...it seems from you first post that you sharpen and then set... The ole master Tom taught me to set first then sharpen.... set it a little more than you need to allow for the sharpener to grind off.... Not only could the setter be taking the edge off... but if you don't get the back side of the grind smooth... (use the little 1/4 x 1/4 piece of stock) the setter is gona give you a false reading ... on one side which will surely cause problems such as a dive or a rise... Banjo
Quote from: vfauto on September 01, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
I use the same cam for all my blades, it should not make a difference because it just changes the profile to a cooks profile??????
I called Cook's with a question about my Cat's claw sharpener, specifically how to get a consistent grind on the face of the tooth. My sharpener was shipped with a Cook's Super Sharp cam, which I filed and modified according to advice I got on the forum, to match the profile of the WM 7° blades I run. My conversation with the gal at Cook's, can't remember her name, went like this-"What kind of blade are you running?" Me-"WM 7°" Her-"What kind of cam do you have?" Me-"Cook's Super Sharp." Her-"You can't do that, you can only grind Cook's SS blades on there because that is a patented profile. If I tell Mr. Cook you've been doing that he will probably be angry with you." Me (I just wanted to know how much tension to put on the blade clamp) "Uhhh...well, I don't know what to say other than I'll probably get angry right back at him ::)Have him call me." I never heard back from Tim, but I will say that they are a bit protective about their cam profile so watch it if you call them- don't tell them you're grinding non Cook's blades on a SS cam. I gotta run, someone is knocking- it might be the patent attorney
Quoteyou can only grind Cook's SS blades on there because that is a patented profile
I'd say that the patented profile only means that another band manufacturer could not copy that profile and sell the band. Beyond that, doubt it could matter what profile you make.
But suspect there is more to the story.
Cooks sells those hand held dial calipers for around 90 bucks.It's a good way to make sure your setter is accurate.Also be careful about what cam you use .I once used a cam that was grinding a bit too much material out at the base of the tooth and started breaking bands .I was not grinding heavy but changing that radius caused problems for me.
Is it possible to use the same side of the dual tooth setter for both sets (basically using it as a single tooth setter) to see if that makes a difference? That would eliminate the variable of one side being off.
Quote from: dboyt on September 02, 2013, 07:36:16 AM
Is it possible to use the same side of the dual tooth setter for both sets (basically using it as a single tooth setter) to see if that makes a difference? That would eliminate the variable of one side being off.
No reason why you couldn't do that. You'd just have to back off one hammer and invert the blade, like using any other single tooth setter.
Quote from: beenthere on September 02, 2013, 12:26:02 AM
Quoteyou can only grind Cook's SS blades on there because that is a patented profile
I'd say that the patented profile only means that another band manufacturer could not copy that profile and sell the band. Beyond that, doubt it could matter what profile you make.
But suspect there is more to the story.
Beenthere, I don't know if there is more to the story on their side, but that was the conversation I had. That is the only contact I have had with them outside of ordering the sharpener. I am happy with the machine, but I will say I have never been treated like that by WM when I called them with a tech question. And I don't want to paint a bad picture of Cook's either, the gal I talked to may have been misinformed, but what I wrote is what she told me.
If I were to guess, I would say she is a little confused, in that maybe it is a patented cam, it is designed for grinding only that specific profile, not that you or anyone could not use it on another blade, if you did, it would grind a SS profile, thus removing the original profile from another blade, which may or may not be designed for this particular cutting action, meaning the teeth could possibly break prematurely, I don't know, they have been nice to me, but I never made Tim mad :D david
By my reckoning, you aren't using a SS cam. You are using a modified cam. I have quite a few different cams and none of them are original. I've modified all at them at some time or the other.
Vfauto
You may be right about the cam. Sorry!
I found a little trick on zeroing out the dial indicators. Rather than using the setting lever to zero, just grab the indicator blocks and bring them together with your hand. That keeps the setter from bending the wrong tooth.
The manual beats the video for setup. After the machine is setup, each blade will require adjustments.
ARp
Timber kings are notorious for not cutting straight. Most likely your band wheels and/or guides need to be adjusted. I've heard several people having tks badly misaligned right out of the factory.
No need to bash TK or any company, any mill not adjusted right won't cut straight and some might get out of the factory not perfect as with any company. Both TK and WM set their mills with only 1/8" down pressure while Cooks recommends 1/4" which I run as I can saw straighter and faster with 1/4" down pressure. The reason I asked the OP about down pressure. Another thing on a TK mill it might take 1/2 hour to get everything perfect and if I bought any new mill that's the first thing I'd do. Kinda like chainsaws, I'm not running a new before I make sure the carb is adjusted right. Steve
As stated in the original post it was a sharpened blade and when I put a new blade on it worked great, so cutting up TK was unnecessary.
Quote from: Sam H on September 03, 2013, 01:56:01 AM
Timber kings are notorious for not cutting straight. Most likely your band wheels and/or guides need to be adjusted. I've heard several people having tks badly misaligned right out of the factory.
Being new at this I am not sure what down pressure is or how to adjust it. Please advise.
Quote from: ladylake on September 03, 2013, 05:15:04 AM
No need to bash TK or any company, any mill not adjusted right won't cut straight and some might get out of the factory not perfect as with any company. Both TK and WM set their mills with only 1/8" down pressure while Cooks recommends 1/4" which I run as I can saw straighter and faster with 1/4" down pressure. The reason I asked the OP about down pressure. Another thing on a TK mill it might take 1/2 hour to get everything perfect and if I bought any new mill that's the first thing I'd do. Kinda like chainsaws, I'm not running a new before I make sure the carb is adjusted right. Steve
Locate your saw head so the blade is right over one of the bunks and measure from the bottom of the blade down to the bunk with your moveable guide all the way open. Measure near both guide wheels on the inside, then loosen up both guide wheels and raise above the blade and measure again, the difference would be the down pressure your mill was set at. After that lower both guide wheels until they push the blade down 1/4". Also when you have the guide wheels above the blade measure from the bottom of the blade to the bunk to make sure your big wheels are level with the deck. When setting down pressure with the guide wheels all the way apart make sure the blade stays level with the bunk all the way across. Then run the movable guide in some making sure it's running parallel to the log bunk. Do all the adjustments with the blade tensioned. Steve
I thought that WM recommended 1/4" down pressure on it's blade guides. That is what I think mine is set at.
When we picked up my mill, we were shown/trained how to saw with it before we left the dealers. It cut straight and true that day and has ever since. Even with all the blade guide bearing changes I have made.
To set or check your blade guide bearings you need to start with a sharp "new" blade. They recommend backing off your blade guides until the blade, when tensioned up, goes from drive wheel to idle wheel without touching the blade guides. And you should know or have the mill set over a bed rail so you can measure up from the bed rail to the blade. I think WM recommends something like 12 or 15" above the rail.
Then you lower the blade guides so that the guide is pushing the blade down 1/4" from the original position. They need to be nearly the same. I say nearly because on WM they say the outer one (log loader side) should be 1/16" higher as the head will shift down when sawing a large wide log/cut from the drag on the blade.
If I haven't explained it correctly, I'm sure someone else will post the correct procedures.
Jim Rogers
Jim I thought I read that WM recommends 1/8" down pressure but that's just from a guy with a bad memory. I know TK only recommends 1/8 " but I find that 1/4 cuts straighter and faster on my mill.
Now, I'm not totally sure. But I'm sure someone else will post.
Jim Rogers
I am looking at my WM owners manual. The Blade Guide Roller deflects the blade down ¼". The back of the blade is 1/8" from the flanged collar on the Blade Guide Roller.
Also the blade tracking is adjusted so that the gullet is 1/8" forward of the bandwheel belt.