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Log Splitter Build Questions

Started by fasttruck860, November 29, 2021, 12:19:57 AM

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fasttruck860

Hey everyone,

I'm picking up parts for my log splitter build and I'd like some opinions on what type of splitter to build. I'm looking to build something that's pretty much commercial quality but I might save some dollars where I can. I split about 4 cords by hand last year plus another 3 with a borrowed machine but the rounds are piling up quicker than I can get to them. This is mostly for friends, family and personal use. In all honest I work so much and all the kids play sports, I just like to get the house chores done as quickly as possible.

Right now I have a Honda GX390 engine and a 22 gpm pump. Where I'm stuck is a two fold issue; I'd like my son (10) to be able to help me run the machine and my property is mostly large red oak trees. My initial thought was to build a vertical splitter that has a very fast cycle time but single wedge. This would at least create uniform splits and there wouldn't be a lot of waste. I do worry about my son getting his hand caught between the wedge and a round with that setup. The other type I considered is a box wedge since most of my trees tend to be 30" or so. With the box wedge I figured it reduces handling of the rounds while splitting and I'll just have to move the very large pieces with the tractor. What size round do people generally consider unsafe for a horizontal splitter, over 40"?

Last question, has one had any experience with the rugged made cylinders? They're the only supplier I can find that has larger cylinder rods to help with cycle times. I figure the smallest I'll probably go is a 4.5" if I build vertical and 5" with the horizontal.



Ljohnsaw

I only know what I've read but...

Have you looked at Surplus Center for rams?
Are you going to install a dump valve (I think that's what its called) to bypass the return to the tank for faster return stroke?  Might work as well or better then a bigger rod.
30"+ rounds of oak?  Wow - I wouldn't want to be loading those!  40" is crazy!  Are you going to have a lift for a horizontal splitter?
Have you seen the vertical splitters with a comfortable height work table?  They use a lift to get the rounds up.  They have two grips you have to hold before the ram will go - nice safety for your son.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

thecfarm

I really don't want to send you to another posts but there have been some nice builds. One just a few weeks ago. You might get some ideas from them.
I have one of those that can split vertical and horizontal. Nice for the big ones, I have split stuff 3 feet across with it. Those big ones are hard to get under the splitter, I wonder at times if those are really worth it.  Than when I split them small enough to pick up I split them horizontal. I found out splitting those big ones, at ground level are kinda hard on the back. But saying that I would not want a piece 3 feet across on a narrow 6 inch beam, up in the air with out a table to support it either. 
Mine is a store bought one. Lever has to be held for it to go forward. It will go back by itself.
The one that was built a few weeks back, had a table about waist high for splitting.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mike_belben

I admire your ethic and dont wanna be a downer here. there is a but.

You wont be able to build a fast commercial grade splitter for less than a manufacturer who is buying pallets of components and whole flatbeds of steel.  Unless you have a really robust junkpile and a hydraulic hose connection and...


For avg 24"+ wood a box wedge with dragback and a crane or log lift are the way to go, just look away from the kindling.. So what if it makes kindling. Thats paid for in nice square uniform wood that stacks as good as bricks.


The things you will need to do for fast cycle times are expensive.  have a large cylinder rod.  a huge split valve with big hoses or double ports in the cylinder blind end for standard sized hoses and 2 valves for splitting to double the flow in and out of the rodless end.

 There are dump valves to go straight from cylinder blind end to tank on the return, and there is regenerative stroke valving to speed up the extend cycle but a big rod wont need it. 

 Again this is some pretty high level expensive stuff and the big hoses may be the spot to be content with.  Its not hard to teardown a cylinder and weld an extra SCH80 or SCH120 fitting to the very back end with a preheat and post heat to help limit distortion down where a backyard mortal cant get a hone.


The bigger the rod, the more imbalanced the fluid volumes on either side of the piston. A large fluid volume is trying to vent out the return hose and its being pushed by a small fluid volume. So lets say half gallon to fully retract, but you need to exhaust 2 gallons to do it, like a hydraulic syringe.  That exhaust side needs to be very large, and the shortest path to tabk possible with low friction... or you are heating fluid.  A big dump valve is needed to run a big rod diameter. One without the other just wont shine like both together.
Praise The Lord

Crusarius

What about a dual direction splitter? Thought I saw one of those somewhere?

have a double ended wedge that splits in both directions. Set it up so one direction you split big stuff and the other direction is to just resplit stuff that was already split. Would essentially double the amount of splits in a single cycle.

The biggest issue is where to mount the ram so it works. but if you keep the ram low then you can split the big on the one side and have a tray on top of the ram on the other side for smaller pieces. Clear as mud? right? :)

Ever since I saw my first kinetic log splitter I have been sold. talk about fast!

mike_belben

There are quite a few of those on youtube.. Left and right box wedges with a block on a table in the center.


Few downsides.  You have to wrestle the round over the block manually each pass. the time saved splitting is spent on picking up two piles. or on having 2 conveyors. And youll have one direction strong and one direction weak unless one uses 2 opposing cylinders and free floating cylinder connections to the pusher block.
Praise The Lord

sawguy21

I suggest you rethink this. By the time you buy all the bits and pieces you probably won't save any money and you will have to work out the bugs yourself. The better splitters have the controls mounted far enough away from the ram that fingers won't get pinched but if you are loading while he is operating accidents can happen.
Actually at a given volume and pressure a larger cylinder will be slower but but will exert more force, smaller is faster but less powerful. That engine and pump would work well with a 5" cylinder, lots of power and reasonable cycle time.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Crusarius

I was thinking move the wedge back and forth. as long as you have a table once it is split once it drops onto the table then you just flip 1 half up on top to return. 

When it comes to splitting my firewood I make a phone call and have it delivered. My time is much better spent doing all the other things on the list.

Big_eddy

A few comments .
A simple single wedge splitter should be all that you need for <10 cord a year. No need to go all out. 
Dont worry about cycle time. A 22gpm pump on a 13hp motor with a 4 or 5" cylinder will outwork 1man, or 1 man and a kid or two. Unless you have 3 teenage boys running it, you will be glad for the 3-5 sec return stroke time.
While the box splitters look cool, they are waaaay harder to build and much fussier about the wood they like. I highly recommend you keep it simple and go with a single or 4 way wedge.
What other equipment do you have? Lifting heavy rounds is hard on the back. If you have a loader or other way to hoist them great. If not, then a log lift or a vertical mode should be considered.
I've built more than one splitter so have lots more inputs depending on the direction you take. I'll reply later after you start to converge on a design.

fasttruck860

 I build one good project a year and next year it will be this splitter. Last year I built a grapple for my tractor that turned out great and just what I wanted at about roughly half the cost of a new one. I do have a stock pile of steel plate (3/16-3/4") shears, sheets, etc. sitting in my shop and I already have the beam. I work in commercial construction so my projects end up with tons of misc metals that don't get used for one reason or another and I'm fortunate enough I've made contacts with enough people that I can typically buy material at a greatly reduced cost.

Whatever style I build will definitely have a log lift since like I mentioned most of the rounds are around 30" and then dropping off. Last year I had two trees dropped that were 38" and 34" at about 6" up. I used one of the vert/horizontal splitters and just moving the rounds around for 4 hours kicked my butt. Even with the tractor once you get the first wedge in it becomes difficult to move since it doesn't actually split it half.

I think I'm leaning towards a splitter design like the Eastonmade 12-22. I'm not sure I need an adjustable height on the wedge because it will either be the box wedge or a single wedge to deal with the very knotty stuff. I've considered the 4 way but that means I have to handle the large splits that fall off, get them back on the table and go through a couple more times. I do need to read up on dump valves because I'm not sure the time reduction will be enough to bother with it and the added heat probably won't be an issue considering I'm mostly splitting in the spring or fall. I'm also trying to source a Galtech valve that's 120lpm which should cut down on the heat build up and that has work ports at 3/4" to match the cylinder I'm looking at.

doc henderson

I think the safety for your son is you working with him, and setting some rules.  my son was 12 when he started using out homemade splitter.  the guy pulling the lever, is the guy who is stabilizing the log, and your hand goes on top, not on either end.  I built with a 32-inch x 5-inch cylinder, so it is hard for a youngin to have a hand on the valve lever, and the far end of a log.  I use stops to decrease the cycle time (so the cylinder does not fully retract) as most of my stuff is about 16 inches so I can feed front to back.  with my son operating, I cut run at idle and slow it all down, and it powers through and is quiet enough to communicate without yelling.  the worst is to have two young guys working together and one has a hand in the wrong spot, when the other pulls the lever.  I have an 18 hp (needed 16) with a 28 gal/min. two stage pump with a 5-inch cylinder.  I have considered a dump valve but my plumbing is simple and neat.  I use a crane with a lifting tong to place 3-foot logs on the table.  I have sides along the edges of the beam to help hold the logs on top.  I have a single 18-inch-tall wedge.  I made an 8-way split, but more trouble than it is worth.  I think I would use a 4 way. If you have lots of materials and a tractor to load.  could build a three-point splitter to break the log rounds in half or quarters with an inverted splitter, then move to the horizontal one.  
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

mike_belben

What everyone SHOULD BE building isnt a one or the other.. But a BOTH machine.  All we see is vertical or horizontal. It should be vertical AND horizontal.  Its one more cylinder and a 2 spool valve or a selector on a single spool.  

You build your 5 inch slow horizontal 4 way with catch racks or table, and right next to you is a perfect working height vertical single knife table with a 2.5 inch fast cylinder all with easy ergonomic layout from either position. The big slow bust is done by the 4 way and now the big pieces that need resplit can be grabbed with the right hand if youre a righty or if lefty build it on the other side of the discharge. So one person is rolling rounds onto the lift and 4waying them while the other operator is pulling out resplits and fixing jams at the conveyor thats right next to him without ever moving. Dads work position should be facing boys work position so he can scream at him or bump the E stop when tragedy is near.

Make the log lift big enough for dad to pile on a good few rounds and ensure there is a guardrail at the operator side of the 4 way that is big enough the rounds cant run the boy over if he tips the lift too high and they come rolling down too fast.  Use telescopic tubing for a dropleg stabilizer to keep the loaded log lift from flipping the machine. 

A priority valve upstream of 2 independant splitter valves is how both stations can be running simultaneously without slowing up the other one.  Extra HP and cooling would be a good idea 

Praise The Lord

Hilltop366

Those are big blocks of heavy wood, I think you have it narrowed down to the two best choices with the box wedge or vertical . With blocks that heavy my first inclination would be a EastonMade style box wedge but I do like the simplicity of the vertical splitter and the blocks sitting on the flat . The large heavy blocks will still be a bit of a struggle on a vertical but a few rollers on the lift side would reduce the effort.

Another helper idea I have thought of for a vertical would be to make turn table under the splitting wedge so you could turn the large block with little effort for initial break down. The turn table could be very simple with a heavy round piece of plate that insets in the table with a piece of rod in the centre that is sharpened to a point. It only has to lift up a little bit (¼" ?) to spin easy and could be lifted by a leaver that is hand or foot operated or lifted by the last little bit of the return stroke of the splitting cylinder. If using the splitting cylinder it would good to be able to engage and disengage it.

mike_belben

A carosel is a great idea.  A flat plate welded to a rim on a trailer spindle. The flat plate glides 3/16 over a solid metal perch so that when the splitter hits it the table deflects a hair down to the perch for the split, then springs back up. 
Praise The Lord

doc henderson

If you do telescoping square tubing, weld the nut on the corner, not the flat, as to not deform and create problems with the telescope. :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Don P

Cool, I had seen that before but did not know why. It's late in the day but still under the wire  :D

fasttruck860

Quote from: mike_belben on November 30, 2021, 09:16:44 AM
What everyone SHOULD BE building isnt a one or the other.. But a BOTH machine.  All we see is vertical or horizontal. It should be vertical AND horizontal.  Its one more cylinder and a 2 spool valve or a selector on a single spool.  

You build your 5 inch slow horizontal 4 way with catch racks or table, and right next to you is a perfect working height vertical single knife table with a 2.5 inch fast cylinder all with easy ergonomic layout from either position. The big slow bust is done by the 4 way and now the big pieces that need resplit can be grabbed with the right hand if youre a righty or if lefty build it on the other side of the discharge. So one person is rolling rounds onto the lift and 4waying them while the other operator is pulling out resplits and fixing jams at the conveyor thats right next to him without ever moving. Dads work position should be facing boys work position so he can scream at him or bump the E stop when tragedy is near.

Make the log lift big enough for dad to pile on a good few rounds and ensure there is a guardrail at the operator side of the 4 way that is big enough the rounds cant run the boy over if he tips the lift too high and they come rolling down too fast.  Use telescopic tubing for a dropleg stabilizer to keep the loaded log lift from flipping the machine.

A priority valve upstream of 2 independant splitter valves is how both stations can be running simultaneously without slowing up the other one.  Extra HP and cooling would be a good idea




I certainly give the boy an ear full while working. If the girls decide to help they get the same, but they usually don't like to help for too long.

Quote from: Hilltop366 on November 30, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Those are big blocks of heavy wood, I think you have it narrowed down to the two best choices with the box wedge or vertical . With blocks that heavy my first inclination would be a EastonMade style box wedge but I do like the simplicity of the vertical splitter and the blocks sitting on the flat . The large heavy blocks will still be a bit of a struggle on a vertical but a few rollers on the lift side would reduce the effort.

Another helper idea I have thought of for a vertical would be to make turn table under the splitting wedge so you could turn the large block with little effort for initial break down. The turn table could be very simple with a heavy round piece of plate that insets in the table with a piece of rod in the centre that is sharpened to a point. It only has to lift up a little bit (¼" ?) to spin easy and could be lifted by a leaver that is hand or foot operated or lifted by the last little bit of the return stroke of the splitting cylinder. If using the splitting cylinder it would good to be able to engage and disengage it.


I also like the simplicity of the vertical table splitter. I'm going to mull over the turn table idea for the big blocks. I'm still a bit worried about the weight since some of those have to be a solid 300lbs+. I've tried dropping a few on the horizontal splitter I borrowed and it was too light and unbalanced to take the weight. I had to use the tractor to hold it while my helper split it.

I'll give you an idea of what I've been dealing with on my property, the area is relatively untouched other than when the houses where built in the 50s. This is probably one of the largest trees I have but I have a couple larger and probably 15 or so that are not much smaller. They produce an enormous amount of wood.




doc henderson

my table after the split wedge is 2 feet wide, and I have a side table that is 2 x 4 feet, and has the adjustable legs to create a slope as desired.  I have room to split big stuff in half, then stage 1/2 on the table while I split the other half.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

mike_belben

Every boy needs an earful. 

Id probably build a mobile beam splitter on a tractor or bobcat or backhoe etc if i always had that stuff to deal with. 
Praise The Lord

Hilltop366

My horizontal splitter that I purchased recently (new to me) has a table on both sides of the beam that goes back and forth with the pusher, it takes a bit of getting use to but I kind of like it.

You have to change your method of operation a bit because you can't split and keep pushing everything through but it brings everything back for re-split or stacking so you avoid reaching out  past the wedge and struggling to pull blocks back.

It has a 12" single wedge and a 3½" cylinder which makes it plenty quick with only a 160cc motor. It is more along the lines of a vertical splitter as far as method of operations go but a vertical would still be an advantage in regards to physical effort for any block that needs more than a few splits.

Hilltop366

Just when you think you have had a original thought.  :D (not really, I know better)

The vertical splitter with turn table.

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Crusarius

hey, they used my idea to. Man those things are sweet!!!!

Hilltop366

They have some nice gear, looks like they are in Austria. This one popped up on youtube so I got looking around on their channel. I posted a link here.

Re: A different firewood splitter design

Crusarius

Is it me or does it seem over seas has much better stuff? Could it be that they are less sue crazy and don't have as much safety crap?

You make it idiot proof and they make a better idiot :)

One of the things I see over seas all the time are the MAN flat nose trucks. Makes so much more sense for more cargo capacity. Unfortunately Americans just have to supersize everything!

The MAN trucks actually have hydraulic assist front drive. supposedly there is no parasitic loss when it is disengaged. I watched a video on it before, pretty kool technology. 

Joe Hillmann

If you want to speed up your cycle times you can plumb your cylinder so that when you are extending both sides of the cylinder are plumbed together and both get pressure.  The side without the rod has more square inches pushing on it so it will overpower the side and cause the cylinder to extend.   As it extends the fluid on the rod side has no place to go and is forced into the non rod side.  The rod will extend very fast but have very little power.

Then once the wedge hits the wood you only put pressure on the non rod side and it will have power when extending again.

I don't know if the extra complexity and the need for an extra valve is justifiable for the extra speed.

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