air_plane
Curious as to why that is? Thoughts?
One thing I can think of is until the last few years there wasn't much well known option in regards to a portable mill other than Mobile dimesion type, or thin kerf bandmill. But I think we are slowly gaining on 'em ;)
Having had both, I believe portable, easier to set up, one man + 1 helper or not, to operate. Much less intimidating without that big disc spinning close by. Less hard work for 1 man to run.
Possibility of cutting in remote locations and cutting wider boards. Less money to operate per job, as in custom sawing on location. ??? ???
Could be other ideas.
What all is included in the "circle" mill? Anything other than a band?
And, where are you getting the numbers from, as to "more" smaller band operators?
Are you just talking portable mills, or any mills?
I'm using the Sticky at the top of this forum of "Iron Iventory".
Circle Mill:
56" Saw, automatic carriage, feed, etc.
Band Mill:
Woodmizer, Timberking, etc.
also much less kerf with a band vs circle---more boards--takes more power to run a circle also--
Because the production is so much higher on a circle mill that it takes a lot more of those thin kerf bands to keep up. :D
A lot depends on the markets you are trying to address. If you're into custom or portable sawing, then the band mills or swing mills are a better route to go. If you're looking at costs, then the bigger circle mills can drive costs down pretty much through higher production. Each mill has its place.
I just figured that band mill operators still had all their fingers (so they can use a keyboard). :D ;D
There are also just a lot hobby/personal use or part time sawyers here and are using band mills cause they are easier to use and maintain and cheaper to get into a decent one or fixer upper or build one.
Good one Bibbyman :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
D M
I never lost any digits to a sawmill, but lost part of a toe in a wood splitter.
I think part of the reason there are a lot more bandsaw mills is marketing. Not that it's the only reason but without the aggressive marketing campaigns of the various manufacturers over the past couple decades there would not be nearly as many.
I think in a word though the biggest reason is:
Wood-Mizer ;)
Ron, I heard that the EMTs who responded were union, and refused to pick your toe up to carry it to the hospital because they weren't authorized, so they called a toe truck. ??? :)
lost a toe in a wood splitter, OK inquiring minds need to know how this is done ???
Were still here. Watching the bandsaw guys change blades. :D :D
I couldn't see how to get enough production out of a bandmill to survive and besides the horse people need sawdust for stalls. probobly the most reason for more bandmill than circle mills is cost of mill and support equipment. I guess a lot of guys arn't comfortable just a couple feet away from that big blade. 28yrs running a circle mill and I (nock on wood)have all my body parts.
For me the decision was simple.
Thin kerf just makes sense.
Portability is what my business is based on.
Hydraulics makes handling the log a simple task.
Setworks allow for much more accurate cuts.
Smoothness of cut, why cut extra thick wood just to plane it off because the cut is rough.
Availability of a newer model, I have yet to see a 2000 or newer model bell saw.
From a portable sawmill perspective:
There are a lot more band mill manufactures.
There is a distinct difference in the safety, bands break and fly out, circle saws kick material out.
Circle mills cost more per feature.
Takes power to increase feed rate, same issue for either.
I have only found one customer who wanted the smoother surface typically created by band mill.
I have never had a customer question the recovery rate, I don't think this is an issue for them, it is an issue for folks who sell the wood they cut.
I run a Mighty Mite band mill, but Mighty Mite is much more famous for their Circular mills.
I would be happy to run one, but I still want my log handling hydraulics.
Its pretty much the differance between a hoby and an industry.Most banders and swingers start off with their own projects then turn a buck for outhers.A little harder to start right off with a dedicated site and large machinery.Most circular sawyers are making a living at it and are too tired to talk about it half the nite.Frank C.
I went from a circular mill to band mills. Less people required (I can saw by myself if I wish), less horsepower (electric bills), definitely higher yields (cypress got expensive and harder to get), safer, cheaper blade and blade maintenance costs (hit alot of nails). Also, I can have a slow sawyer on a band mill and it won't kill me, get a slow sawyer on a circle mill and a bunch of guys waiting on him and you will go broke. Now the production goes to the circle mill, but if your crowding your market or log supply, what does it gain you? The dust from the circle mill is a "gold mine" now, the band mill, not so much. Initial price can be cheaper now on the more manual circle mills. The resale values on them are terrible. The finish on the band mill is a positive in most cases, however, some have wanted the circle cut, "rustic" finish.
People ask me which mill to buy. I've had a couple of circle mills, a couple of skraggs, and four band mills. I tell them it depends on alot of issues. If there was one perfect mill, we'd all be using it! There's not, so we don't.
Mark
Quote from: ErikC on March 03, 2009, 02:43:36 PM
One thing I can think of is until the last few years there wasn't much well known option in regards to a portable mill other than Mobile dimesion type, or thin kerf bandmill. But I think we are slowly gaining on 'em ;)
I think most of the older part time circle sawmillers don't do computers. I know two or three around here.
http://www.fricksawmills.com/00h.htm
archie =) =) =)
Gday
As some of You might have noticed ;) :D Ive been doing a verry indepth study ito this subject for along time now ;) :D :D ;D ;D :D 8) 8) 8) ;) I call it Runing Horses for Corses ;) ;D
As the saying goes No two Sawmillers are the Same ;) ;D and We all like to do things Our Own Way ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)
Static Circs and Larger Bands need alot of infrstructure to be productive Capital,Land,Log supply,labour ,Production planing ,power, material handeling eqip,ect ect ;) ;D and thats why im holding of on the meadows build at the moment as i want it to be spot on when i start and not some Half Arsed thing ;) ;D 8) 8)
Portable circs swing mills ,twinsaws, are low puchase 7 running cost , flexable need minamal handeling equipment if needed ;)are productive mills on std constuction and larger sizes and med 18" to large 60"+ dia range
Portable Band Sawmills are good mills on on most fronts low to medium purcase & running costs ,can be operated with minimal log handeling equipment if needed , can multiripp smaller sizes and can be extended to cut almost any length iff needed and are productive on logs in the 10" to 24" dia range
With sawmilling I allways run on the pricipal that Time Vs Recovery ;) ;D 8) and I get verry good recovery on avveage ;D ;D 8) 8)
and If you where to put a New Hyd bandmill up against a New (eg 00 frick co) well setup manual Circular mill of the same price with good Sawyers In Average logs 10 to36" dia ;) I Reckon the Manual Circ would beat the Bandmill hands down once all the math was done at the end of the day ;) ;D 8) 8)
Reguards Chris
Meadows I am proud of you. You are using much more discretion. At this rate your smiley affliction will be relatively under control within the year.
I'm not saying you'll ever be able to make a smiley-free post, but I predict a day when you'll be able to have a word-to-smiley ration of approximately 10 to 1, compared to the 1:1 ratio you started with when you joined. ;D ;) :)
Gday
TTs im trying Mate ;) :D :D ive done a few with without any so im on my way ;) :D
I just see it as a way of showing how i feel at the time ;) ;D
Anyway hows the project on the old circ you got going ??? ;) ;D have you got anything done on it yet as I reckon it would tidy up into a Nice sawmill Mate ;) ;D 8) 8)
Reguards Chris
I started out some 25 years ago (at the age of 19) with a Frick 01 circle mill with a 60" blade. Kept mill on the family farm and usually went there by myself to saw with no one else around. When my wife got pregnant with our first I decided to sell the mill. Now I will add here that she NEVER mentioned me getting rid of it but I could see the fear anytime I went to the farm, and I did not want her to go through that. I went about 1 1/2 years without a mill and got the DT's. We were young and I did not have the money to buy a mill so I built a woodmizer clone. Used that mill for several years and leased it out to a local timber framer which had me going through the dt's again without one so I bought a woodmizer LT40 and added hydraulics to it myself. recently sold the homemade mill and still have the woodmizer. Would I like to have another circle mill ??? Yeah but like the protabiltiy option of the woodmizer. Since I am a one person operation I dont forsee me purchasing anonther circle mill, however a band mill can't come close the the feel of a well tuned circle mill humming along. Just my thoughts.
I may be on the opposite spectrum of the smiley face problem Meadows Miller suffers under. I have a similar number of post and have only use them once or twice. :) Now 3 times. He also brought up the length factor. My reason for a band mill is the unlimited length of track, weather you are cutting long lengths or multiple pieces, I love my long track. It is a self contained unit, no overhead cables or chain drives. Two hydraulic motors and small tires pressing against the track side. I could ride it to Bangor if the track was long enough.
Tim
Gday
Tim I also suffer from Speed reading which caused me alot of dramas in school ;)and on the comp i can galse over smaller posts and understand them no worrys but i might have to reread afew of the Larger ones tho as i can lose paragraps w/o understanding them fully ;) I have to read most tech books by placing a blank page undr the line im reading to get a full understanding than just an overview ;) Must be why i like breaking things up alittle Mate ;) :D :D :D ;D ;)
The longest i cut was about 45' i think but we started out at 40' and there where a few extra feet added a few times over the years to go Just a Little longer so it coud be more like 48 to 50' dont know as id have to go and measure afew ridge beams in houses dad & I built over the years ;) :D ;D 8)
Thats the main reason for me getting the Woodcraft 30-20 A hyd that and the fact ive wanted one Since I saw the first one when i was 8 ;) :D :D 8) 8)
and if you have a mill that will saw 24' you will sure enough have someone ask can you just go alittle longer and its better to have a mill that will do it easy than pushing one too as ive dine that one toomany times in the past ;) ;D 8)
Reguards Chris
Wish I could compare the two, here's my $0.02. As a future hobby sawyer, I've spent the last 3 years building my Belsaw. :o
Still not finished (it's ready to saw, but there are NO safety features yet!). Since I really want the sawdust (to mulch my 25 ac. of timberland), that isn't the issue.
Wish now I'd just bought a bandsaw, at least then I would have been learning to saw instead of sharpening my engineering, layout and welding skills for the last 3 years. Not that I regret it but I think the costs will be roughly the same by the time I finish. ::)
Oh well, can't stop now, just wish it were finished so I could use it on the various logs before they turn to mush. Still looking forward to making some sawdust, maybe by this Summer? One can hope. ;D
Ray
Quote from: Meadows Miller on March 04, 2009, 08:14:37 PM
Gday
TTs im trying Mate ;) :D :D ive done a few with without any so im on my way ;) :D
I just see it as a way of showing how i feel at the time ;) ;D
Anyway hows the project on the old circ you got going ??? ;) ;D have you got anything done on it yet as I reckon it would tidy up into a Nice sawmill Mate ;) ;D 8) 8)
Reguards Chris
Funny you should ask Mate. I decided long ago not to set either of them up. Then I decided to set them both up at the same time, using the little tie mill as a top saw. Then I decided to sell them. I took a deposit from a fellow and never heard from him again. My attempts to reach him over the past couple years were unfruitful so I finally gave up.
So why did I say "Funny you should ask?" Because I have been talking with a fellow in Georgia recently who built a hybrid. He mounted a homemade powerhead turning a 23' bandsaw blade on a big forklift mast to raise and lower it, and uses his track for the circle mill he used to run, to run the logs through the stationery bandmill portion. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Those dancing men were for you Mate. ;D :D
So maybe I will use at least the track and carriage of the big circle mill after all. You never know about me, because I usually don't even have a clue what i may or may not do next.
Glad you took the smiley comments like I meant them. I must admit it was distractive to me at first, but now, I am not sure I would want you to change it. I wouldn't like everyone doing it but it sort of belongs to you as a trademark now so I think you ought to just keep doing what you are doing. It's part of what makes you who you are. ;)
P.S. The "Mate" thing is not hard for me to use. If you spent anytime here you would notice most American men would have soome trepidation in using that term toward each other. We think of our "mates" as the woman beside us in bed (most of is anyway :o)
I was in the USCG and "Mate" is the term you are required to use when addressing one of your fellow recruits, so even to this day it's no big deal for me to use the term with a Brit or Aussie. I do not believe any of the other US armed services use that term though. :)