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Author Topic: My timber frame build  (Read 93617 times)

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Offline asaw11

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #640 on: September 26, 2022, 06:46:54 PM »
looking good. get a little lost when you are describing the beams and location where each one is going. not knowing what direction the picture is facing.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #641 on: September 26, 2022, 08:10:18 PM »
Go back and read the first 639 posts :D  (that's one of my brothers so I can be mean) The first picture in the previous update is looking north.  The cabin is running exactly north-south.  The northern most bent is #1 with the southern most being #5.

Here is what it is supposed to look like when nearly done:


 
And this is the parts I'm working on right now:


 
I need to mill out the front three 8x8 posts and the matching center post for the north end.  The mini-tie beams can be seen at the top of the window frames.  The beam on the left set of posts is sitting up on the deck in the picture on the west (left) side behind the stack of timbers - waiting to go up once the framework is up.  The ridge beam and the beam on the right set of post still need to be milled out of some logs.  I will mill and set those once the top sections are up to reduce the likelihood of them warping and twisting.  All the short braces under the beams are ready.  I have stock cut for the long 7'6" braces (four on each bent - 20 total) and just need a day to cut the tenons on each end.  Two to three weeks of prep still to go.  Pretty much what I lost due to the heat, fire, smoke and rain at the beginning of the month.  It's gonna be close! :-\

Fun leg-pulling from 1/29/2017
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #642 on: September 26, 2022, 08:29:01 PM »
Are you hoping to get it under roof this season?
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #643 on: September 26, 2022, 08:44:53 PM »
Not gonna happen.  Early on I couldn't get any logs to make it happen this year, so I will pull the temporary loft flooring up before I close up for the winter.  Hopefully that will be sometime after Halloween.

Heading up in the morning through Friday.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #644 on: September 27, 2022, 06:11:42 AM »
asaw11, I am following too.
Not a timber build guy, so I get lost easy.
But I am enjoying the posts.
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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #645 on: September 28, 2022, 04:41:00 PM »
Understood.  Thats what I was wondering about was the flooring.
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Offline LindaJSaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #646 on: September 29, 2022, 08:28:23 PM »
Go back and read the first 639 posts :D  (that's one of my brothers so I can be mean) The first picture in the previous update is looking north.  The cabin is running exactly north-south.  The northern most bent is #1 with the southern most being #5.

Here is what it is supposed to look like when nearly done:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 
And this is the parts I'm working on right now:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 
I need to mill out the front three 8x8 posts and the matching center post for the north end.  The mini-tie beams can be seen at the top of the window frames.  The beam on the left set of posts is sitting up on the deck in the picture on the west (left) side behind the stack of timbers - waiting to go up once the framework is up.  The ridge beam and the beam on the right set of post still need to be milled out of some logs.  I will mill and set those once the top sections are up to reduce the likelihood of them warping and twisting.  All the short braces under the beams are ready.  I have stock cut for the long 7'6" braces (four on each bent - 20 total) and just need a day to cut the tenons on each end.  Two to three weeks of prep still to go.  Pretty much what I lost due to the heat, fire, smoke and rain at the beginning of the month.  It's gonna be close! :-\

Fun leg-pulling from 1/29/2017
:)

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #647 on: October 07, 2022, 10:42:09 PM »
Update 10/7/2022:

Lets see, Monday got up there around 8:30.  Set up camp (have to pull the food out from storage in the bath house because there is a bear around) and then finished up the last two 12' posts for the south bent.  I'm sure there is something else I did that day but I don't remember.  

Tuesday I made up 5 of the 7'6" long 4x6 braces for the very top of the bents.  Probably did something else...  Oh, yeah.  I made up a little furniture dolly from some large caster and some 1½"x8" pine boards.

I called a friend from my old job and had him help on Wednesday.  I told him I had a job that he was well qualified for.  ;) Had him sit all day on the brace stock while I cut and cleaned up with the slick.  He's 75 this year and in good shape but didn't think he wanted to operate the manual boring machine!  We knocked out another 6 or 7 braces between stories from the past.  After he left I cut a few more 7' braces.  I spread out the posts and mini-tie beams using the furniture dolly.

Thursday, early morning I dropped the mini-ties in the 12' perlin posts to check the fit.  Two fit, the remaining 8 needed a little shaving here and there.  You can see the gaps on the closest two that didn't sit down into the housings.


  
The rest of the day was assembling the north bent (#1).  Turns out my calipers were not calibrated when I was making brace stock. :-\  Normally, I check them several times a day, but for some reason I didn't.  All the braces were about 1/16" too thick so lots of shaving needed.  At least they weren't too thin!  Took the rest of the day to assemble.  The days are getting too short!  The far braces are just placed to show the full bent.  The area below the mini-ties is 9' and will have a vertical sash window in each looking north.


 
This morning, on to the south bent (#5).  First, I shaved all the brace stock tenons to the right thickness.  ;) This one went together in half the time of the north bent! 8) But, still took about 3 hours :-\  That includes dropping the 12' post on the left down to the first floor. ::)  No damage done.  Just a slow motion teeter that I couldn't get to fast enough.  There's the furniture dolly next to my bike frame timber hauler.


 
This weekend I'll fabricate some slip-ons for the SkyTrak forks to accept some 18' sections of heavy pipe.  One on each fork and one from the top of the headache rack so I'll have a really long boom to raise these bents. It will be held in place with some chain and my new, fancy, heavy-duty ratchet come-alongs.  Next week should get the bents upright!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #648 on: October 08, 2022, 08:01:32 PM »
I took these picture back on 9/27 that I forgot to post.  First, some cathedral grain for MM.  In person it was really jagged edged from one tooth being out of wack.  Turns out the band was cracked 3/4 of the way through.


 
I think this log was a little surprised that I was cutting it up! ;D


 
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #649 on: October 13, 2022, 12:04:48 AM »
Update 10/12/2022:

My SkyTrak had a rough life before I got it.  Something big fell on the fork backstop.  Ignore the yellow brackets on the forks for now.  Hopefully I'll have another update for what they are for.


 

 
I tried once to straighten it but the expanded metal was in the way.  So Tuesday, I took my cordless angle grinder to it.


 
I think this is a 4 or 6 ton jack.  With the help of some chain to focus where I wanted it to bend, I got it pretty straight, vertically.


 
The jack did a final push and blew the top off the cylinder so it's toast.  The center support had popped it's weld long ago.  I'll have to bring up my stick welder and see how well my generator does providing power for it.

I forgot to take some pictures but I drilled and pounded in the three 1" oak pegs into each post where the main cross beams connect (30 pegs).  I still need to peg the three middle posts in the center of the cabin.

Today was bolt day.  On the middle three bents, the engineer specified adding bolts to all the internal braces.  A ¾" x 12" bolt horizontally through the brace into the post just below were the top of the brace enters the post.  Also, a 1" x 18" bolt vertically up into the beams (10"x15").  The braces need a 2" counter-bore to seat a flat washer.  A little difficult to start a horizontal hole on this angle with a Forsner bit. :-X


 
So I made a jig.


 

 
First drill the counter-bore and then run the ¾" bit through.


 
On the beam side, just a piece of 2x6 with a pre-drilled 2" hole.  Line it up and clamp.



And drill. (Sorry, this is a different "after" shot)

 
All that's left is to pound the bolt through and tighten it up with the impact.  I did 11 of these horizontal (¾") ones today and will do the 11 vertical (1") ones tomorrow.

I also spent a lot of time today removing the nails from the external brace plates and using the right fasteners ::) (SDS ¼"x 1.5" screws).  Got about half done today, hope to get the rest tomorrow.  Then, I can work on setting up the top half of the bents.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline beenthere

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #650 on: October 13, 2022, 12:09:34 AM »
Looks well done on both jobs.  8)
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Offline Prizl tha Chizl

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #651 on: October 14, 2022, 04:23:24 AM »
Thanks for posting the photos of the model. I was late to come to the story, and have done some catching up, but it helps to see with so much of your frame up now. 
Nice job on the drilling jig, that will likely save me some headache down the road.
Do you understand the reasoning behind the engineers bolt request? I’m largely ignorant on these things, but thought I had understood that opposing braces work (mostly) in compression, pegs being more than adequate to keep them seated in their mortises.
Keep up the good work!
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #652 on: October 14, 2022, 10:32:05 AM »
Well, from what I've read, the pegs are really just to hold the bents together when you are setting them up (for the braces).  I was/am striving for NO plywood anywhere.  Being an earthquake state and high winds up here (100+ mph), there needs to be a substitute for a shear wall.  So I threw in a lot of extra braces (knee braces on the perimeter).  But that doesn't help the interior three bents where knee braces are impractical.  The internal top braces need to be very secure in both tension and compression.  So, a way to lock the braces in was needed.  There are some internal things available but the precision drilling and cost of both the tool and parts put me off.  So the bolts are a compromise.  As to why 1" vertical and ¾" horizontal, IDK.

IIRC, the engineer ran the wind model to 120 mph but I don't know the earthquake value he used.  He did comment that the frame is VERY sturdy!

Yesterday I had grand plans to get the 11 vertical 1" bolts in place.  Drilling up a 1" hole through 22" of wood can wear a guy out!  I got 4 done.  I did some simpler stuff to fill the day.  I pulled about 600 nails from the external brace plates and drove in the same amount of ¼x1.5 lags.  Got another 300 to pull this morning...

Time to get to work!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #653 on: October 14, 2022, 07:33:36 PM »
Didn't drill anymore this morning but replaced 300 or so nails for lags.  Then I placed the 32 brace plates for the upper braces putting only lags on one side until I get the beams fully set down with the help from the SkyTrak.  So that was another 256 lags before lunch.  Originally, I hammered the nails by leaning out from the floor joists.  This was required to be able to drive the screw:




That's a 20' ladder section - so the first floor is 17' above ground level on the north side.  Add 10' to the second floor.

 
Probably heading back up Sunday or Monday.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #654 on: October 17, 2022, 09:39:32 PM »
Update 10/17/2022:

Yesterday I finished up pegging the two outside beams.  I had to use my new come-a-longs to pull the beams down onto the posts.  The beams had moved a bit and made a ¾" gap on a couple posts.  The come-a-longs are rated a 2T and I used two and got them as tight as I could.  Using the SkyTrak might have been faster but I can't reach that high now!  Once those were pegged, I finished lagging the brace plates in place.  Finally got that done!

Well, I planned on one half, maybe one full day to add the bolts to 11 braces.  I did it in spurts since it was so physically taxing.  Horizontal were "easy", the vertical was brutal.  I drilled a 1" hole for the 1" bolt (engineer/code requires the hole to be no more than 1/32" to 1/16" oversize).  So I had to pound the bolts in (from the bottom).  I ended up using my digging bar with the 2½" tamping pad end.  What do those weigh? Fifteen, twenty pounds?  I could do all but the last 2" or so from the floor.  Then I used the head of a 12 pound sledge and an oak peg to finish it off.  All done after about 20 hours of work over a few days!  In the summer, my work days are 12-13 hours but now with the shorter days I'm lucky to get 10 or 11 hours in.  I'm so glad to be done with these!

On the second floor, I only have to do the knee braces on the mid-purlin posts on the middle three bents - so six to do.  These will be much easier since I will be drilling DOWN and pounding DOWN instead of up!

Tomorrow I will be doing a little pre-winterizing with my stacks of floor planks and prepping the two end bents for going up on Wednesday when my buddy is coming to help.  If those go well, then prep and set the middle bents.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #655 on: October 18, 2022, 09:10:08 PM »
Update 10/18/2022:

OK, ready for tomorrow:


 
There are three 18' steel pipe poles there.  Two are sitting on the 2" balls sticking forward on the yellow brackets seen on October 12th.  The third pole is in the middle and is chained to the backstop.  It's sole purpose is to prevent the boom from going over backwards when upright.  It is NOT a load element.  You can make out the heavy chains and binders that take the load with the two other poles.

This will be used in a nearly vertical position to give me extra height up on the second floor which is 20' above the ground level at the front of the cabin.  Lifting and lowering will be done with the chain hoist.

I did a load test in the horizontal position, for which it was not intended.  My heaviest bents are the middle three with 8x10 posts.  Using the tool box, the calculated green weight of one of those is 1,300 pounds.  They have dried quite a bit so probably way less than 1,000 pounds.  Being conservative, I'll assume 1,000.

I have a 24" x 33' Ponderosa Pine log (very green).  The log weight calculator doesn't go to that length so I did a 16'.  That weighs in at 2,262 pounds.  I only lifted the one end of the log so that's about what I lifted - maybe a little more.  I just used my log tongs on the end of the boom - without the chain hoist.  The left pole was deflecting inward quite a bit the further I lifted, so I ended the test.  So, I'm saying I have a 2:1 margin on lift capability (in the worst orientation possible!), so I'm comfortable with that.  (Probably more like 4:1 when vertical)  If I was able to do the lift test with the pole vertical, I think I could lift a lot more due to the geometry.  Maybe I'll do that in the morning.

To position the chain host over the center of gravity of the bent, the boom will be tilted slightly forward with the SkyTrak boom fully extended and slightly lowered.  I figure I'll have to raise the SkyTrak boom and retract to position over the final position.  What I won't do is tip the forks - with that 18' extension, it really moves the tip fast!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Andries

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #656 on: October 18, 2022, 10:15:03 PM »
Seems you’ve explored all the possibilities, best luck tomorrow.
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #657 on: October 19, 2022, 09:55:24 PM »
Update 10/19/2022:

I did another load test with the boom up high, forks rolled back as far as they would go and used the chain hoist with log tongs.  Went well picking up the end of the big log.  Setting it down, the log jumped and the shock load buckled one pipe and bent the other. ::)

So, spent a couple hours straightening the two pipes (easy with the backstop on the SkyTrak pinching them straight) and welding the buckled one that split when straightened.  My welder on the generator is a challenge, to say the least.  But, got'er dun.

First bent (#5, the south one) was pretty easy and up before lunch.  Just the middle post didn't set with gravity (¼" gap).  I'll give it some help in the morning.



 

 

The second one (#1, the north bent) was a bit more challenging.  No room to put the SkyTrak inline with the cabin so had to be at an angle and it's about 5' lower ground back there.  Got it lifted and with a little shaving of a tenon (forgot to re-measure before lifting on this one), got it in place. But forgot about the braces ::)  So lifted again and re-set it.  That took up most of the afternoon.




 

Two down, three to go.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #658 on: October 19, 2022, 10:09:55 PM »
Looking good John.  8)
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Offline Andries

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Re: My timber frame build
« Reply #659 on: October 19, 2022, 10:38:33 PM »
Good work!
You’ll be setting up cell towers and windmill towers soon.
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