More lessons - longer logs

[WV Sawmiller]

Was shut down by snow and ice for 4 weeks. Last tree I cut was a big tulip poplar. I cut one log 20'6" because I am building a shed with some 17' openings in the front and needed long framing for my rafters to rest on.

Finally dried out enough today I could get my P/U out there to move the log the last 10' to line up with my mill. My 4 wheeler I use with my log arch is in the shop. The P/U worked fine moving the log. The mills hydraulic  arms lifted the log easily and the hydraulic turners worked fine rotating the log/cant. Heart check angle prevented me from getting as wide a beam as I wanted so I made them a little thicker. At one point while turning the cant it was too close to the back end of the mill and walked just enough the blade would not pass completely through. The hydraulic rollers worked great. Lifted the back end higher and the front roller just enough to get the cant off the deck. It rolled easily the few inches needed for the blade to clear the cant on both ends. Hydraulics are definitely the way to go.

My mill is supposed to cut a 21' log so only a few inches on each end. Not sure I'd every want to cut longer wood than that even though I know I could add extensions.

Among the other things I learned is that green poplar 2.5"X12"X20'6" boards/beams are heavy!

[fishfighter]

Just think what a wet red oak weights in at that is 8x8x16.5'. Dealing with a manual mill is not easy. ;D

[bandmiller2]

Hydraulics make you feel like a teenager again, its really folly for older guys to cheap out and not get hydraulics theirs so much at stake. If you hurt your back, or other stuff, it makes life miserable. My log pile is just starting to peek above the snow. Frank C.

[Magicman]

@fishfighter, Yup, heavy.  Look to the left and click on the red toolbox to find the weight of logs, etc.  The Tool Box is also found above under Extras

[millwright]

You can cut 21-1/2 ft on your lt35. I have done a lot of them, just be sure to run the head down to the end to make sure it is centered.

[Foxtrapper]

You can cut 21-1/2 ft on your lt35. I have done a lot of them, just be sure to run the head down to the end to make sure it is centered.

Can on the LT28 as well, but i'm not sure I would try it without the hydro's, I have a hard enough time rolling 16's...

[ncsawyer]

@fishfighter, Yup, heavy.  Look to the left and click on the red toolbox to find the weight of logs, etc.  The Tool Box is also found above under Extras

I didn't know that was there.  That is very useful and user friendly.  I had been using a spreadsheet I made to calculate the volume of a log and then the weight based on published weights per cubic foot.

[ncsawyer]

Speaking of log weights, how do you guys load logs on your hydraulic mills that are too heavy for the hydraulics to lift?  In the past, on my manual mill, I have cut logs in excess of 6,000lbs that the tractor would not pick up. When this was the case I could easily roll the log up the ramps with the tractor and use the winch to hold the log in place while the tractor got another "bite".   The Wood-Mizer site list a hydraulic lift capacity of 4,400lbs.  Is this what you guys see in the field or can the hydraulics handle more than that?

[Magicman]

I'll have to admit that I have exceeded the loader limit many times.  I use the log clamp in conjunction with the loader and proceed slowly.


 
The "end tong" in buried into the log and chained to the clamp.


 
I raise the loaded and tighten the clamp together.  I am sure that the dual hydraulics in the SuperHydraulic helps.

[4x4American]

Does it get sketchy when you have to retighten the chain to the clamp?

[ncsawyer]

What was the approximate weight of that white oak?

[Magicman]

I do not remember the dimensions, but that is it in my avatar.


 
Of course that was before Jeff did some art work on the butt end.   ;D

[ncsawyer]

Thanks for the info and the pictures.  I am supposed to pick up my new LT40 hydraulic next week.  I just sold my old LT40 Manual a few days ago.  With my old mill I sawed 6K plus pound logs occasionally.  The last ones I milled were huge SYP logs that a 416 Cat backhoe had a hard time setting on my mill.  Its hard for me to believe that the lift (running off of an electric hydro pump) could lift that large of a log.  But after seeing your pictures, it seems like it might could handle that large of a log.  If not, I guess you could always help out the lift on the mill by picking up on the log with a tractor while loading it with the lift on the mill. 

Magicman,  does your mill have any trouble turning large logs, like the one in the picture, with the log turner?

[Magicman]

Sure, it sometimes takes a combination of the log clamp and log turner working together to gradually inch those biguns over. 

Raise it with the clamp, move the turner claw under the raised log, and then lower the clamp.  The log's weight against the turner claw will turn it a bit, then do it again.  Oak logs are by far the heaviest.

[shakebone]

Be carful also turning those big ones if I have your loader arms up as to catch flitches ,them big logs could overpower the claw and roll off and turn mill over make sure clamp is up or raise loader arms all the way up until u get it positioned then lower  .

[Magicman]

Listen to the man.  The loader arms need to be completely raised when you are handling/turning big logs.  Always!! 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Listen to the man.  The loader arms need to be completely raised when you are handling/turning big logs.  Always!!

If NOT.....it could get NASTY! 

[customsawyer]

How do you guys know? :D

[Magicman]

This guy knows because he has had logs to roll back onto the loader arms.  Now Jake is correct, I do not know what would happen if the loader arms were not up......and do not want to know.   

[Peter Drouin]

Well, my arms were up and it did not help.  :D


  

 

[Magicman]

Oops, where is John??   ???

[Peter Drouin]

John did put the log back on the arms. :D :D

[4x4American]

John is a good guy

[5quarter]

Peter...now yer just showin off. throwin logs around like they were nuthin... ;) ;D

[BBTom]

I do know from experience that if the loader arms are halfway down when a big white Oak ( 36" dia. x 18' long)gets away from you, that it can make the mill jump into the air a bit and lean away from the log some.  It can also straighten out the loader arms a tad. 

The mill sits up straight again when you get the log back on the deck, but the arms are forever curved less than they used to be.  Yep, I know better than to roll a big'un with the arms not fully raised, but for some reason just didn't do it that day. 

Now I have to raise the head up an inch or two over the normal 24" to move it to travel position at the end of the job or it catches on the end of the arms.  Life keeps teaching, I keep learning.

[Percy]

I'll have to admit that I have exceeded the loader limit many times.  I use the log clamp in conjunction with the loader and proceed slowly.


 
The "end tong" in buried into the log and chained to the clamp.


 
I raise the loaded and tighten the clamp together.  I am sure that the dual hydraulics in the SuperHydraulic helps.

Slick. What a great idea...

[WV Sawmiller]

All,

   Thx for the pointers. I never heard of or thought about keeping the arms up. My problem is I routinely forget to lower the arms till they get in the way. I had been told to keep them halfway down and I use them to stack flitches for edging and such. I will try to remember to keep them high for big logs in the future.

    I still question that I can cut  a 21-1/2' log on my LT35 but am sure going to check that at the first opportunity.

[terrifictimbersllc]

I had a medium size log roll off the loading arms once, even though the arms were half way up.  It went over and up and off. 

[pineywoods]

My mill has hydraulics, but no loader. I usually park my tractor so the forks are right where the loader arms would normally be, so I can push flitches off on to the forks. Trying to roll a BIG log and lost it, the log rolled off onto the forks. Tractor boogie, fortunately nothing bent or broke, but the rear wheels came off the ground.

[Dave Shepard]

All,

   Thx for the pointers. I never heard of or thought about keeping the arms up. My problem is I routinely forget to lower the arms till they get in the way. I had been told to keep them halfway down and I use them to stack flitches for edging and such. I will try to remember to keep them high for big logs in the future.

    I still question that I can cut  a 21-1/2' log on my LT35 but am sure going to check that at the first opportunity.

I know that the LT40 is supposed to cut 21', but you would have to remove both rubber bump stops to do it. Is the carriage shorter on an LT35?

[Chuck White]

I hate it when that happens, Peter! 

Better to go all the way out rather than between the main rail and the tire!  :-\

Luckily, I've only had that happen a couple of times!  ;)

[WV Sawmiller]

@Dave Shepard,

    I have no idea if there are special tricks to cut that long a log. I was just commenting based on Millwright's comments above.

@millwright,

    Any special tricks or techniques to use to cut those extended lengths.

[shakebone]

The 35 I have will cut 21 BUT it has to be perfect !  Best thing I like about 21' logs is I can cut them into two tens and wa-la no problemo !  ;D  and I learned the hard way on the big daddy's also 

[WV Sawmiller]

@shakebone,

   I agree about the 21' logs. As I mentioned I cut a 20'6" log and it walked just a hair when flipping the cants and I couldn't get my blade out at the very end. Had to raise the rollers and back it up a couple inches to finish. I just did not see the extra length on the mill mentioned by others in the text.

   I see what you are saying about the 21' lumber but with my limited experience I'd much rather cut the 2 - 10's separately. Much easier handling of the boards and flitches and such. Plus I could likely just stretch a hair and not even have to walk around my left side tire on the mill.

[Peter Drouin]

On the WM mills there's a black painted line on the top of tube to show how far the blade will go.

[4x4American]

^ Thats smart, like a gunning line on a chainsaw eh

[millwright]

In my earlier post I meant to say 20-1/2 ft not 21-1/2.

[WV Sawmiller]

The lines Peter mentions are clearly painted and very accurate. If the log touches one of them you better expect problems. As long as you are inside them you are okay. With my 20'6" I just had a couple inches on either end to the mark.

[SawyerBrown]

@fishfighter, Yup, heavy.  Look to the left and click on the red toolbox to find the weight of logs, etc.  The Tool Box is also found above under Extras

Norwood also has a really nice app for your phone that calculates bf in a log (all 3 scales), bf in a board/beam, and weight of a log by many major species.  Unfortunately does not give you weight of finished lumber.  This in case you're somewhere where you can't access the Red Toolbox.  ;D

[DMcCoy]

Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment." - Will Rogers

Big logs are much different to handle, and they can move surprisingly fast.

[SawyerBrown]

Also need to make sure the stops are up!  Almost had one roll off the other side one time when I forgot ...  Can imagine a big log would be really, really hard to deal with if that happened.   

[Magicman]

"It" can happen.   


 
  :-\   smiley_dizzy  smiley_dunce

[WV Sawmiller]

@Magicman - Thx for the post. It is reassuring to us novices when we see even respected pros occasionally experience brief periods of cerebral flatulence. I like Sawyerbrown's post from Will Rogers about good judgment coming from lots of bad judgment.

I guess the big lesson is we are all involved with many different things happening all at once and even a brief lack of attention to any one of them can result in embarrassment and lost time, if we are lucky, or damage or injury if we are not. I am sure WM and the other sponsors will eventually develop a mill that will provide warnings or shut down if forget to raise or lower the arms, won't let us cut into a clamp, etc. (Of course I am sure there are people reading who will immediately disable these functions for increased speed, cut operating cost or for ease of operation).

[ncsawyer]

"It" can happen.   


 
  :-\   smiley_dizzy  smiley_dunce

The best thing about this situation is the shade tree you've got to work under.

[SawyerBrown]

WV, great saying, but that credit goes to DMcCoy.

MM, so how did you get that out of there?  (And please don't say "magic"  :D)

[WV Sawmiller]

My apologies to DMcCoy and Sawyer for the misquote.

D - that's what happens when you get your post sandwiched between 2 of Sawyers.

Sawyer - I bet MagicMan has one of those 78" logrite tools and just rolled it right out. I only do things like that when my wife is watching. You'd think there would be a Statute of Limitations on a woman's memory but apparently not.

[SawyerBrown]

 :D  :D

Oh yeah, wives never forget anything. My dad used to say something about "memory like an elephant", but don't use that one on your wife ... that's one she'll NEVER forget.  :D

[Magicman]

MM, so how did you get that out of there?  (And please don't say "magic"  :D)

OK, I won't.  My Dad always said "main force and awkwardness", so I will not say that either. 

A combination of a couple of chains and peaveys,  We slid a slab under the top end to keep it level so we only had to lift the butt end up level with the sawmill bed and roll it back on.

In my very early days of sawing, I had one much larger than that to roll off.  A ~24" twenty foot White Oak log.  Of course the engine was raised so the momentum almost turned the entire sawmill over.  That one took a very large tractor to lift it out and put it back on to the sawmill bed.