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General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 06:30:47 AM

Title: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 06:30:47 AM
I Canít believe these trucks do this, how does ford even let something let that get sold? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4JV7L8bBo1Q (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4JV7L8bBo1Q)
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 06:33:05 AM
ďMilitary grade aluminumĒ aka cheapest stuff we could find. Rest In Peace steering components. That canít be good
For the front end at all lol
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Old Greenhorn on June 18, 2021, 06:46:46 AM
I had the same problem but much worse in my Ram 2500 a dozen years ago. Turned out it was the bushing in one of the cross bars (I forget the name) that was known to go every something thousand miles. Scared the crap out of me. Would only hit at a certain speed (68 mph) and stop when I got it below 55. Had that bushing replaced twice while I had the truck. About 300 bucks each time.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: bannerd on June 18, 2021, 07:44:46 AM
Typically happens when you have worn suspension items.  When they went to coil overs it seems to be more common because the bushing in the lateral links would fail.  The older trucks that had leaf springs had the issue but it was very uncommon because the bushing in the leaf springs took for ever to wear out.  The old dodges/fords had this nailed with the single cross bar and the steering off the knuckle (danas).  As long as the crossover was tight it virtually killed DW.

For a new truck it's under warranty I would think?  They heavy duty trucks should be coming with dual dampers so that is odd it is happening in that.  Unless the brought back that stupid track bar design that ends up going to a knuckle at the other side of the vehicle and running a single damper in between. 

Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Roxie on June 18, 2021, 07:59:28 AM
Cowboy Bobís F350 did it and we had a friend that hauled horses with a diesel dually that did it. 

My observation was that the front wheels were leaving the ground. No amount of complaining or trips to the dealership ended or fixed the problem. 

For what itís worth we traded the piece of junk in for a gas Chevy 2500 that out pulled (he was a livestock dealer/hauler) and out handled the Ford. 

Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 08:19:42 AM
Typically happens when you have worn suspension items.  When they went to coil overs it seems to be more common because the bushing in the lateral links would fail.  The older trucks that had leaf springs had the issue but it was very uncommon because the bushing in the leaf springs took for ever to wear out.  The old dodges/fords had this nailed with the single cross bar and the steering off the knuckle (danas).  As long as the crossover was tight it virtually killed DW.

For a new truck it's under warranty I would think?  They heavy duty trucks should be coming with dual dampers so that is odd it is happening in that.  Unless the brought back that stupid track bar design that ends up going to a knuckle at the other side of the vehicle and running a single damper in between.
These are seemingly in newer trucks though? I’m assuming the front end just wants to go it’s own way due to slop , whether that be from worn bushings, bearings or just bad design resulting in prematurely worn bearings/bushings. Front end ends up trying to compensate for that and “jumps”
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
They put all the R+D into the Infotainment system so the CD player won't skip when that happens.....
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 08:24:17 AM
Cowboy Bobís F350 did it and we had a friend that hauled horses with a diesel dually that did it.

My observation was that the front wheels were leaving the ground. No amount of complaining or trips to the dealership ended or fixed the problem.

For what itís worth we traded the piece of junk in for a gas Chevy 2500 that out pulled (he was a livestock dealer/hauler) and out handled the Ford.
Iím just learning about this design flaw, Iíve never owned a ford, and probably wonít ever after searching up these plentiful videos of this death wobble, this is the first videos I watched, I thought the initial start was the death wobble, then it hit HARD(the real death wobble) totally unacceptable imo Iíd be back to that dealer faster than you could drop a pen https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsRrcPLwBb8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsRrcPLwBb8)
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 08:26:34 AM
In that previous video itís already so wobbly to begin with the guys sounds like heís talking while sitting on top of a washer machine 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 08:28:41 AM
They put all the R+D into the Infotainment system so the CD player won't skip when that happens.....
Just when cds are going way with the doo doo birds lol 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Texas Ranger on June 18, 2021, 08:35:29 AM
Ford E-150 did it at 5000 miles, bad front end.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: mike_belben on June 18, 2021, 08:43:45 AM
ive had it in every make of truck except IFS toyota or chevy.  so i guess every solid axle i can remember.

the hardest to trouble shoot was a leaf sprung 86 K30, no lift, stock rubber size.  i did kingpins and check spring bushings a few times, steering box was tight. friend who bought it end up determining it was actually the rubber, solved when he changed tires.  thats the only time i can say it was the tires.  adding a steering damper may have been enough to solve that. they have no track bar.  


on all the fords, its the track bar, pretty much always at the axle end. the slightest bit of slop will wobble.  

on 2nd gen dodge its the trackbar but its up at the frame end near the steering box because they use a stupid balljoint design.  after 3 track bar replacements (theyre pretty much annual in a dodge so just get a 1yr warranty cheapo in town and replace every year on cue) i finally cut the bar and grafted up a conventional double capture bushing mount and welded a 2 tab mount to the frame.  turned a delrin bushing oversize and pressed it in, drill it undersize and beat the bolt through.  fantastic after that as everything else was new and tight.  

obviously tie rod ends, balljoints and shocks have to stay tight too.  

my 01 f250 4wd did it really bad and that one it was a blown stabilizer and shocks.  i changed the track back out of habit and the old one was tight.  the new one is already going south and ill probably put the old one back in.

on jeep cherokee is pretty much all the same combo.  and those so often have lift kits with poor steering geometry that theyll get bump steer that then turns into deathwobble. i solved that by building a proper heim jointed tie rod and parallel track bar/draglink but it required cutting and welding mounts too.  no bumpsteer or wobble even without a stabilizer after.

actually .. dont think my 84 toyota leaf sprung solid axle never did it.  98 nissan frontier did a bit  when the steering idler on the passenger side got sloppy. 


any time you have a track bar look there first.  and obvious alignment plays a role.  i prefer 1/8" toe in.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 09:13:52 AM
Mike Iíve only run chev or Toyota so maybe thatís how Iíve avoided it this long, that and I donít like to
Mess around with worn chassis items as adds much risk to ones life 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: mike_belben on June 18, 2021, 09:22:45 AM
theyve all got their issues.  just luck of the draw. 


you can buy the best vehicle on earth and get T boned just the same. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: firefighter ontheside on June 18, 2021, 10:32:58 AM
I've never had it in one of my personal trucks.  I've owned Ford Super Duties since 2002.  I did have it happen with out fire department 2009 F350 SRW.  It felt like it hit a harmonic where once it started it wouldn't stop until I brought the truck to a stop.  I believe they replace bushings and steering damper to fix it.  I also believe a part of the problem sometimes is having way too much tire pressure in the front tires.  This tends to happen to me after a truck goes in for service and they inflate the front tires to something like 80lbs.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Mike is on point. I've had it happen in second and third gen Didge pickups. The 2nd gen was just a slopped out front end, rebuilt it and the problem went away. The 3rd gen was simply a worn steering damper. My mother and I were on the way out to Wyoming, hit the interstate and got up to 70 mph. Hit an overpass that was on a slight curve, the little bump set it off. My mom thought the world was ending😂😂 I was just irritated, any DW survivor knows the drill🤷🏽‍♂️ Bring it to a stop and start over. It made for a long trip, I couldn't break 65 mph or when I'd hit a bump we were shakin'😂 All it ended up being was the $50 steering damper, should've just replaced it along the way. To this day (this was around 5 years ago), you bring this subject up around my mom she gets all worked up. I think I gave her PTSD😂
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: K-Guy on June 18, 2021, 11:33:34 AM

I grew up on a GM car lot and had many vehicles over the year and drove even more different ones when I was in the military. All brands have their quirks good and bad, I find people tend to over do these types of things. I'm not saying the dealers are virtuous and will fix it because it's the right thing to do. They will do because of liability and bad press.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 11:46:39 AM
I can say I have a car from every brand that I like. For chevs I like the  3rd and 4th gen 1500 trucks. I also own a 3rd gen camaro And I love that. From ford I like the 60-70s Lincoln continentals, my grandfather had one too, was a boat of a car! Dodge I like their trucks of today. I daily a Toyota Tacoma, that’s been a nice midsize truck. I’m certainly not one to rag on a fella for driving a certain brand.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: 21incher on June 18, 2021, 11:52:40 AM
My 2005 f350 4wd srw had it. Dealer said it was caused by letting front tire pressure drop below  65 psi.  That fixed mine and Ford sent out a tsb about  it a couple years later. It's  a real rough ride on 10 ply tires and 70 psi in them without a load plus the center thread wears quickly. My new Chevy is a dream to drive.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 11:57:18 AM
My 2005 f350 4wd srw had it. Dealer said it was caused by letting front tire pressure drop below  65 psi.  That fixed mine and Ford sent out a tsb about  it a couple years later. It's  a real rough ride on 10 ply tires and 70 psi in them without a load plus the center thread wears quickly. My new Chevy is a dream to drive.
Last chev truck I ran was 08 1500 ltz. That was probably the easiest riding truck Iíve had comfort wise. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: bannerd on June 18, 2021, 01:36:51 PM
Typically happens when you have worn suspension items.  When they went to coil overs it seems to be more common because the bushing in the lateral links would fail.  The older trucks that had leaf springs had the issue but it was very uncommon because the bushing in the leaf springs took for ever to wear out.  The old dodges/fords had this nailed with the single cross bar and the steering off the knuckle (danas).  As long as the crossover was tight it virtually killed DW.

For a new truck it's under warranty I would think?  They heavy duty trucks should be coming with dual dampers so that is odd it is happening in that.  Unless the brought back that stupid track bar design that ends up going to a knuckle at the other side of the vehicle and running a single damper in between.
These are seemingly in newer trucks though? Iím assuming the front end just wants to go itís own way due to slop , whether that be from worn bushings, bearings or just bad design resulting in prematurely worn bearings/bushings. Front end ends up trying to compensate for that and ďjumpsĒ
If you look at the old truck design there was a leaf spring that would take up the forward motion.  The big tractor trailers still run the leaf springs in a parabolic form.  The old chevy CK/K would get them too and toyota would get them as well.  It was rare with the leaf springs that it happen and if it did you could isolate it very quick because the suspension components are minimal.  Sometimes the only issue back then was a ball joint or a king pin/bearing.
The trucks these days are missing front support which the leaf provided.  To compensate this you have lower and upper control arms, links, torsion bars.. entire pitman arm and bars.. the list goes on.  Not to mention the large coil over and bushing/bearings there.
If you take a tractor trailer front end suspension and you put the type of suspension in a common heavy duty truck... now apply the forces when slowing down (loaded) and accelerating.  There is a massive stress here... I couldn't imagine a full load on the back of a semi-truck.  If you slammed the brakes loaded all that suspension would literally be destroyed or worse.. snap off.  Big rigs still use leafs and air bags to keep the rid smooth and can be compensated with a liquid spring.

I believe this is why it happens so frequently and parts are getting dumped into newer trucks.  We had the same issue in the 2005 Dodge cummins trucks in our fleet.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: mike_belben on June 18, 2021, 03:38:37 PM
It felt like it hit a harmonic where once it started it wouldn't stop until I brought the truck to a stop.  
thats basically what it is.  the wheel has mass and is spinning fast.  its a big gyroscope held tight to a spindle constrained by numerous other parts.  when any of them get sloppy the spindle isnt held so rigid anymore and the forces flying around that gyroscope bouncing down the road start transmitting that energy into frame components.  


shocks are a damper.. dampers attenuate frequencies and dissipate them as fluid heat.  if the damper cant do that the harmonic continues and if its able to achieve its resonant frequency, it amplifies continually.   its a lot like a a driveshaft thats unbalanced.  youve got first order harmonic, then cancellation.  then 2nd order harmonic, then cancellation as the rpm increases so thats why a driveshaft shimmies at several speeds.


with deathwobble, the right bump at the right mph will get it started and often that light wobble will amplify into its 1st order harmonic.. resonant frequency whatever.  if slow down enough it falls out of that zone and stops, or if youre cowboy/stupid enough to hang on and gas it out, it will also clear up.  though i dont recommend it.  deathwobble can pull a balljoint or steering tie rod apart pretty quick.  

i suspect when a circle saw goes wonky, its basically doing what death wobble is.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 06:46:42 PM
First time it happened in my '97 Dodge dually I had never heard of it and was certain that the front axle had broken loose from the frame as I didn't recall running over a small passenger car that may have been stuck under the wheel. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: firefighter ontheside on June 18, 2021, 07:01:14 PM
I had heard of it but never experienced it, until it happened to me.  My first thought was, "this is death wobble".  I thought at the time that I had blown a tire.  I got the truck stopped on the shoulder and went to go look at the flat tire and found nothing.  After that I googled it and assumed it was only a Ford thing and the first couple hits I got on it were about Dodge.  In no way would I decide never to get another Ford because of it.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: dgdrls on June 18, 2021, 07:07:25 PM
Never in a Ford Truck,  once in a '66 390CI Fairlane,  front end was worn out,  rebuilt, all good.

Numerous times in the Service Station Jeep Commando.  Learned to not exceed 45 MPH in that buggy.

D
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 07:12:49 PM
Well I’m glad I’m aware of it now, I’m pretty good at being quick to replace worn components, especially bearings ball joints bushings tie rod ends anything to do with the rolling chassis or steering. This even further confirms why I should be on the up keep. That would scare the absolute crap out of me no kidding.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Tacotodd on June 18, 2021, 07:24:18 PM
Mike is correct about powering out of it, if you want to do 80+mph. On all of the vehicles that itís occurred in that were mine, tire balance was the solution. Be sure that they spin balance the tire/wheel assembly (dynamic). BUT, when the tech operator sets up the machine he has to do it in the proper manner. If all of the weights are on the inside, thatís the same as the old school bubble balance (static). When the machine is setup properly you will have weights in AND out, but not necessarily in matching locations. BUT, some of the newer wheels donít allow for this to happen because of the way that they are made (no outside lip for wheel weights. Aesthetics). Thatís one of the reasons that I like old school steel wheels.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 07:30:46 PM
They have wheel weights that stick right on the rim now, no lip needed, Iím seeing the lip weights less and less 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 07:52:03 PM
Hemlock King, even if it didn't scare the crap out of you, it may shake it out of you, no kidding😁  
In some instances one might be able to power out of it, in mine I don't think so. Once it started it only increased in magnitude until I got the truck stopped. I'm talking at 5 mph, you're barely moving but the truck is still thrashing violently. Come to a complete stop and take back off, like it never even happened. Until the next 65 mph bump. 
  Death wobble is not a "brand" thing, it's a solid front axle issue, especially with coil springs. Anything out of whack can contribute- worn out tires, ball joints, tie rods, track bar bushing, and in the case of my last "ride", simply a shot steering damper. I was a bit out of ideas, everything on my front end was tight, tires were good. Nothing out of order. I went to the local Buffalo, Wyoming NAPA, where the parts guy (probably half of his customers have solid front axle pickups 😁) said "try this first" and sold me a steering stabilizer instead of the ball joints I was trying to buy😁 That's all it was🤷🏽‍♂️
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 08:15:47 PM
Barbender, I know Buffalo quite well. Still have my banking there. Nice town. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 08:45:20 PM
Really?! It's pretty amazing really, all of the people I run into that know that little town quite well! My Mom grew up out there, all my family on her side is out there still. I was born in Sheridan, but we've lived in MN since I was 2. I asked my Mom why I was born in Sheridan when they lived in Buffalo, I thought maybe it would be an epic story about a storm blowing off the Bighorns keeping them from getting to Buffalo or something..."they had a nicer OB department in Sheridan" was her answer😂 Oh well, it's my story, I can tell it how I want😊 I still almost tear up every time I smell sagebrush, lots of memories of traipsing over the hills behind my Grandma on all the hikes she used to take me on. Spent a lot of time out on the Kendrick Cattle Company ranch where my uncle worked when I was a kid. When the ranch was broke up and sold off in the late 80's early 90's iirc, my uncle was able to buy one of the small outlying ranch stations called Cabin Crick. Dainty little spread of about 3500 acres😊 (it's really not much out there). Gosh, you got me rambling about Wyoming...not hard for me to do. If life situations changed and I were forced to take up residence in Wyoming, I would not be unduly distressed😁 So do bank at, is it First National? I can't remember the name, I just know it from the steel buffalo sculpture. My Aunt retired from there after about 15 years, after she moved into town after Kendrick sold. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: mike_belben on June 18, 2021, 10:39:41 PM
My first DW was 20 odd yr ago i guess.  in an 89 F350 idi 4wd srw.  I was in the center lane of a packed 3 lane highway going all of 58mph to the floor with people pouring around me on both sides. 

Bam.. Expansion joint. Apocolypse now.  Full blown 100% as bad as it gets wobble.  The nose rose up, tires were off the ground and i was certain the pitman arm was gonna shear any second.  Boy did i get some finger salutes stopping in the center lane.  
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 11:01:41 PM
Yup - First Northern Bank of Wyoming.  Travis has called me at 07:00 eastern to discuss things at times.  What other bank does that?  I will never leave.  I would move there tomorrow, drag the sawmill, the cows, the dogs, and be happy.  Notice I didn't say the wife.  She won't go, we have discussed it.  

Is that ranch still in the family? 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 11:03:36 PM
I smoked a transmission in my third gen in a nice busy spot like that. Locked it up tight, skidded to a stop. I didn't even dare to get out and look at what the problem was, I thought about just jumping and running for it!😂 Thankfully a couple guys came pulling up in two pickups that did pilot car work, onepulled behind me with the beacon on and the other one threw me a chain from his F350 and drug me off the road. Good times🤦🏻‍♂️ I learned at that time that a NV5600 transmission will lose the rear seal, and pump all of its oil into the transfer case. No leak until the t-case starts to spit it out the vent, which is probably already too late. Fun fun. Sometime I will share how I learned that 3rd gen 4wd driveline are engaged at all times. I may save it for my book, "Time Me and My 3rd Gen Were On The Side Of the Road"😁
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 11:10:01 PM
Ahh - don't forget that Dodge built in a "safety feature" to prevent the death wobble.  It was the 5th gear drop off.  You know - manual transmission, nobody thought to use a reverse thread to hold on the tail stock in the transmission so 5th gear would just no longer be there....  No 5th gear and that dually was not getting above 60, no sir, no way that was happening with both feet on the pedal and the 5.9 on the red line - thus no death wobble to worry about.  See - it was a safety feature...... >:(
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 11:13:04 PM
Yep Southside, the ranch is still in the family. Actually, they were able to buy another small adjoining ranch (Squaw Crick) when a neighbor passed away, I think that got them in the area of 5500 acres. They used to run between 100-150 head of Angus, now uncle is a "gentleman rancher" he just runs feeder calves over the summer😊 And a small herd (about 6 I think) of Texas Longhorns that are just pets. They have an outfitting business that is most of their bread and butter, they have an exclusive lease on the Padlock Ranch (that's who bought Kendrick out) and some other surrounding acreage. I don't remember, it was in the area of 300,000 acres they have exclusive hunting rights on. It sits on both sides of the Wyoming/Montana border. Very good Mule deer, the elk are ridiculous. I think they are taking around 10 bulls a year (that's what the ranch limits them to) there's always several 350+ and a few over 400 over the years. The Powder River country out there is a hidden gem!
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 11:15:10 PM
Haha I was only listing 3rd Gen issues🥴 I had a 97 as well, actually that truck treated me way better! "Why does this one break so much?"-my wife, regarding the 03😂
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 11:29:52 PM
Oh - the Powder River.....wife / Wyoming, wife / Wyoming.....ugh!!!   :D
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 18, 2021, 11:48:51 PM
Would you like me to share some Powder River elk pictures?😁 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 18, 2021, 11:51:36 PM
Absolutely
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 19, 2021, 12:25:47 AM
Grizzly Outfitters - Wyoming and Montana Trophy Mule Deer and Antelope Hunts (http://www.grizzlyoutfitters.net/2020-bull_elk-photogallery.html)
I'm not trying to do a business plug here, they're usually booked 3 years out anyways😊
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 19, 2021, 12:28:13 AM
My aunt and uncle are great folks to hang out with, so long as you can handle lots of hunting and ranching😁
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Tom King on June 19, 2021, 08:36:15 AM
It can happen on a GM too, but maybe only after the steering system is "wo' slam out".

It did on my '01 dually.  The truck had 315k on it, and had been in, and out of a terrible path every day for a couple of years working on an old house.

I replaced every moving part in the steering system.  After all that, I didn't even want to drive it anywhere to get it aligned, so I set up some batter boards, and pulled lines.  I just used a tape measure, and a Wixey magnetic digital cube.  It drove great, so I took it to put a set of new tires on it.

After about a thousand miles, the right front was showing the slightest bit of wear on the outside of the right front, probably from driving on heavily crowned Virginia back roads.  I changed the camber .1 degree, with the Wixey cube, and no unusual wear, so far, for the next 30,000 miles.

It's back to driving like a Cadillac now.  Best alignment I've ever had.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35437/alignjig.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624106142)
 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 19, 2021, 01:44:05 PM
I did the toe adjustment on the Dodge by scribing a line around the face of the tire with a sharpie. You hold the marker on a steady base and spin the tires so he mark is in the same orientation all the way around. Do that on both sides, then measure to the line side to side. I brought it in to the alignment shop to get it aligned "proper", they said they didn't even adjust anything🤷🏽‍♂️  Doesn't matter, dang thing still chews the front tires off in short order anyhow!
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: farmfromkansas on June 19, 2021, 02:05:54 PM
My dad had an old super H farmall, and it would do the death wobble.  Had a wide front end, think it was an aftermarket kit, and loose steering.  When I got the tractor, took it to a mechanic familiar with the old IH tractors, and he tightened it up significantly, but never could get the death wobble out of it, at certain speeds, and mostly going down hill, in road gear. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 19, 2021, 02:48:58 PM
Well if we're going to expand into other equipment, I used to run a monstrosity of an asphalt roller- an old Dynapac CA-50 iirc. That thing had a road gear, it would do about 15mph. That doesn't sound like much, but on a roller that is flying! Well it would develop a death wobble because the steering cylinders had a little slop in the pins, now that was scary trying to get that under control! You sat out on an open operator station that was about 6' off the ground, I always thought I was going to meet my end when that thing did that😬
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: mike_belben on June 19, 2021, 02:50:05 PM
In tractors i think it leans toward insufficient caster angle pretty often.  Not adjustable. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 19, 2021, 06:41:10 PM
Had a big Komatsu loader, with the fancy self gyro thingy that made the bucket go up and down just a tiny bit so she would not wheel hop. Worked awesome. 25 MPH with no bounce at all - UNTIL - that little thingy died at 25 MPH. HOOCHIE MOMMA! Whump, Thump, and we have liftoff! 

Now that is a full on death dance! 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 19, 2021, 06:49:47 PM
Aka "ride control"😊
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Bradm on June 19, 2021, 07:13:45 PM
I had death wobble for the first time this past January.  2010 Sierra 1500 with around 90K miles.  Only showed up on ice but started at around 25 mph.  4x4 let me get up to 40 mph before it started again.  All 4 ball joints were shot as were the bushings in 3 out of the 4 control arms.  Now its just got the rear leafs that need to be replaced as the middle leaf is missing 3/4 of its length on both sides.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 19, 2021, 10:46:22 PM
Aka "ride control"😊
Pretty sure my feet were above the steering wheel when we left the gate so I marked her out right, and for sure was looking for the pickup man after 8 seconds.  That was a winning ride - worthy of a buckle.   :D smiley_horserider
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: HemlockKing on June 20, 2021, 03:42:06 AM
 HOOCHIE MOMMA!
:D I havenít heard that in a long time. Use to always use this 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Don P on June 20, 2021, 08:17:21 AM
I've had it in an older Ford, the worst though was in the old '72 Chevy motorhome, 2wd air bagged coil independent front end, basically a UPS van chassis. We were trying to get home from WI when it started thrashing at about 45 mph. I thought for sure there would be parts obviously hanging off it. Limped to a chevy heavy truck dealer in Janesville. After one night at the local Motel 6 they thought they had it, but as soon as I took it out it started again. I had the mechanic drive it and thought we were going to go off roading when it happened with him  :D. 2 more days of head scratching before they fired up the parts cannon and replaced enough components to tighten it up.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Edvantage on June 20, 2021, 09:48:54 AM
Just spent 2k on E350 van All new steering components and brakes. 190,00 miles. Regularly tow heavy loads 12,000 lbs or more. Was starting to developer the " death wobble". Now drives like new although I'm tired of driving it. My second E-350 since 2005. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Larry on June 20, 2021, 10:21:56 AM
UFO's, Chinese rocket ships falling from the sky, and now the Death Wobble!  What next shall I worry about? :D :D

BTW, I thought the dealt wobble ended when I sold my '57 Nash Metropolitan. ;D
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: moosehunter on June 20, 2021, 08:53:56 PM
My first death wobble was around 1984. Driving a 1968 F-250 4x4. At about 60mph on a state highway the pavement ended abruptly for about 15 ft. To this day I don't know how I saved that truck that night. Others claimed there was a sign for the pavement out. I don't think so. Turned out one of the front wheel bearings was loose. Adjusted them and the death wobble didn't happen again. In that truck. Over 30+ years working on automobiles I drove a lot of vehicles with the death wobble in an attempt to diagnose the cause. Most of the time it was worn parts, wheel bearings leading the list.
mh
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: RAYAR on June 21, 2021, 12:00:02 AM
Have driven mostly Fords all my life and don't ever recall having a death wobble. Was a passenger in a Ram 3500 and experienced it when hitting a bump a couple times. It had some steering parts replaced. Later checked the toe in and it was toed in way too much. Adjusted it and hasn't happened since. Too much toe-in can cause this especially when one wheel gets bounced off the pavement and loses traction in steering. Then it becomes a back and forth thing.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: YellowHammer on June 21, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
Interestingly enough, since I'm interested in a new Super Duty, I started doing some research on this.  Turns out there is a big lawsuit against Ford on this.  
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: reride82 on June 22, 2021, 05:55:32 PM
Had a big Komatsu loader, with the fancy self gyro thingy that made the bucket go up and down just a tiny bit so she would not wheel hop. Worked awesome. 25 MPH with no bounce at all - UNTIL - that little thingy died at 25 MPH. HOOCHIE MOMMA! Whump, Thump, and we have liftoff!

Now that is a full on death dance!
I got to experience the "death hop" in a Steiger Panther III 4wd articulated tractor when I was around 12 years old. I was helping a neighbor with summer fallow(before chem-fallow got big in wheat country) and was coming back from finishing up a half section with about a 7 mile trip home. When I grabbed road gear and was around 15 mph when it started to hop, and pulling a 48 foot plow all winged up, there wasn't enough road surface once it was all said and done. Thankfully it was a small ditch I ended up going through and got it stopped in the field I had just left. From then on it was 8 mph all the way back  :D Turns out they had added some front weights to increase traction and put the tractor out of balance. Lots of lessons were learned that day. ::)
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: mike_belben on June 22, 2021, 11:24:42 PM
Thats a heck of a machine to throw a kid on and send him miles down the road
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: reride82 on June 23, 2021, 02:56:21 PM
Thats a heck of a machine to throw a kid on and send him miles down the road
I started "driving" at 5 with instructions to keep it in second gear and basically steer a pickup to the other end of a field(about 2 miles) and shut it off when you get to the other end. farming-wise, I started on a 4100 International tractor with a harrow at age 7. I was driving twin screw tandems by age 10 moving hay and grain. Granted, this was in North-Central Montana so it was mostly section line roads, and very little traffic.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: snobdds on June 23, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
99% of the time the bushings in the drag link are loose. 

Large tires and dry air seem to destroy the things.  It's easy to fix. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: sawguy21 on June 23, 2021, 03:15:14 PM
I got into the 'death wobble' on a Kawasaki 750 triple, it wasn't called a widow maker for nothing. Of course I may have been going waaaay too fast but will plead the fifth. Parked that beast and never rode it again.
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: barbender on June 23, 2021, 08:19:44 PM
To motorcycle aficionados, that is known as "headshake" and no, you never forget it!
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: Southside on June 23, 2021, 11:00:33 PM
Come to think of it I did have that happen once, would have been back in the 80's, and yup - still remember exactly where I was. 
Title: Re: How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?
Post by: DbltreeBelgians on June 23, 2021, 11:24:01 PM
In tractors i think it leans toward insufficient caster angle pretty often.  Not adjustable.
Mike is correct on that. Ever watched a shopping cart front wheels wobble when the cart had no load in it? (I refuse to push one that does that and grab another). OCD I guess. Not enough positive caster. Same holds true on the ďFord Death WobbleĒ.
Much work has been done on this. Not just Ford trucks. Iíve even seen Jeep CJ5ís do this. Positive caster adds stability. Manual steering vehicles back in the day had less positive caster to make steering a little easier. Add power to an old late 60ís manual steering F-250 4x4 and spin the wheel sitting still with your finger. 
Donít get me wrong, worn components such as tie rod ends and track bar bushings will also contribute to this scary phenomenon.
Be safe,

Brent