The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: timberlinetree on April 29, 2016, 06:06:26 AM

Title: Bat shut down?
Post by: timberlinetree on April 29, 2016, 06:06:26 AM
They say ( forester/landowner) that the job we are on, no tree felling from June 1st until Oct? We can move wood,just no cutting. This is in ct. Anyone else running into this?
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: David-L on April 29, 2016, 06:25:02 AM
Nope, but have heard about it.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: wannaergo on April 29, 2016, 06:46:30 AM
They tried doing that here in MI, but it got shot down.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Woodhauler on April 29, 2016, 06:54:10 AM
They say ( forester/landowner) that the job we are on, no tree felling from June 1st until Oct? We can move wood,just no cutting. This is in ct. Anyone else running into this?
Sounds like Dingbats to me!
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: bill m on April 29, 2016, 07:36:08 AM
Yes, it is affecting one of my jobs. Two years in a row.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Ed_K on April 29, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
I have one job on hold thru NRCS but was told ok after july 31.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Skip on April 29, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
All cutting on right of ways around here (pipeline etc) must be done by April 1 to protect breeding grounds of the Indiana brown bat. They are out now making colony trees now next to R.O.W's Crews can clear all down trees and grind and remove timber
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Farmboy 96 on April 29, 2016, 12:39:41 PM
My uncle works for a large excavation company and he did a waterline job in Augusta last year and it was postponed for almost 4 months because of some supposed "Long Eared bats" that inhabited the area. They were making a small road about 20 ft wide by about 900 feet long. Had to get special permits and had a small time frame to get the road cleared. Ended up having to go threw and cut any tree smaller then 4 inches in diameter that was anywhere near the road because they didn't want them in the picture because it had something to do with the bats and was part of the deal with the inspectors and permits.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Wudman on April 29, 2016, 02:13:33 PM
They say ( forester/landowner) that the job we are on, no tree felling from June 1st until Oct? We can move wood,just no cutting. This is in ct. Anyone else running into this?
I would guess this is due to the Northern Long Eared Bat.  The bat is in serious decline due to a fungal infection known as White Nose Syndrome.  It is now a federally listed threatened species.  Under the US Fish and Wildlife Service 4(d) rule announced in January, a 150 buffer must be left around all known maternal roost trees during the pup rearing season from June 1 to July 31.  A 1/4 mile buffer is required around all known hibernacula (normally caves where they hibernate - or some old structures used for hibernation) year round.  The final rule was much more favorable to the industry than the preliminary rule issued previously.  Thanks to the National Alliance of Forest Landowners (NAFO) for their work on this issue. 

Wudman
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Gearbox on April 29, 2016, 03:17:47 PM
Someone said on here [I think] .We have gotten along ok so far without the many prehistoric creatures .
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Gary_C on April 29, 2016, 03:54:46 PM
The final rule was much more favorable to the industry than the preliminary rule issued previously.  Thanks to the National Alliance of Forest Landowners (NAFO) for their work on this issue. 


Yes, along with a lot of other organizations and individuals that kept the US Fish and Wildlife Service down to making a stupid rule from making a very stupid rule that would have devastated a lot of industries.

Read more about it here: http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,55196.0/all.html (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,55196.0/all.html)   
and here:
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,79017.msg1199614.html#msg1199614 (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,79017.msg1199614.html#msg1199614)
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: coxy on April 29, 2016, 04:58:18 PM
pretty soon we will all be on the gov hand out line with things like this
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: OH logger on April 29, 2016, 09:53:34 PM
don't hurt the bats but we can abort BABIES :(. crazy country
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: CCC4 on April 30, 2016, 10:55:14 AM
This is a subject I am very opinionated on. I know enough about the situation here to have an opinion but have no scientific data to use in an argument. So...here is our situation and how I see it.

Bat numbers in the millions are on the decline...from logging??? No! ...from land development? No!! It is from White Nose Syndrome. It can be carried from cave to cave by the bats and or humans visiting caves. It is a fungus that kills the bats and has done so in vast numbers leaving Government specialists with no quick answers and only a finger to point at logging.

Ideas have been going around about shutting out loggers from NFS land during a several month period. Efforts this year to help the bats have got me wondering what is up. A Pre commercial type thinning is being done through large areas of planted NFS pine. The slash is being left for bats. This is where I am at a loss, I do not see how this is going to help the bats. I heard it is to promote bug numbers for food...I don't get it.

NFS this year has been burning thousands of acres of FS land. Ideas were going around as to the "why"...is it to encourge our Elk herd to broaden their territory? Is it for the bats? Is it for fire prevention? Here is what I have found out...it is supposed to be for all of the above! Later, I found out a real reason that is being kept a little hushed up...years ago when Government agencies were starting our large Elk herd, the seed population was coming from Colorado and Arizona areas. If you remember, those populations got sick from "wastings disease". Hmmmm....so the rumor that 1,800 whitetails were killed this past year for "scientific study" sound pretty interesting to me. Guess what...our population of white tailed deer showed positive for "wastings disease"!! Evidently...and I am sure it would be argued by AG&F...when the Elk herd came here they brought a little something with them...awesome!!!

Ok, so now you have white nose syndrome in bats and now wastings disease in deer...so why not change some of the focus and take a little weight off AG&F and try some crap focused on logging in efforts to help the bat population?? BAMM!!! Tree huggers jump right on it...oh logging is so bad on the wildlife....give me a break! Nothing has to do with logging in my opinion.

Last thoughts. Indianna Grey bat is arboral, it lives in timber. Why not cut during the Summer months to where the can re-locate, rather than cut in Winter when they are semi hibernating in the timber and will die of exposure?

Sorry for so windy
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: CCC4 on April 30, 2016, 11:13:32 AM
I re-read my post and it appears to me that my brain was turning faster than what my finger could type and I wasn't clear as to my main point. My my main point is that there are (2) major problems that have no clear solutions. So....pointing a finger at logging seems to be the objective as a solution to an unsolvable list of problems. Therefore taking the blame off what they can't fix and trying to show they are doing something by blaming loggers. These are two clearly biological problem...not ecological! I feel logging regulations will just be something to make them look like they are doing something...but not really helping the situation at all. Thanks
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Autocar on April 30, 2016, 12:58:01 PM
From my understanding cave explorers from Germany brought the white nose syndrome to this country. Ive heard rumors that clear cutting in areas here in Ohio are put on hold but don't know for sure.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: coxy on April 30, 2016, 05:35:24 PM
ccc4 I heard the same thing as you  the only thing I cant figure out is if they want bugs for the bats to eat why burn the forest floor  as I say you are right about what you say they have to blame every thing on the logging
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: treeslayer2003 on April 30, 2016, 05:59:54 PM
Clint i agree with every thing you said 100% +1000. its that way with every thing even remotely protected here. there is no evidence what so ever commercial logging has ever impacted any thing other than improving future timber stands. how ever it is the very first thing uninformed folks point the finger at. they are burning off state land here as well, last year was the first time i herd of it in years. of course we are not to do that lol.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: bill m on April 30, 2016, 09:20:15 PM
I don't get the impression that they are blaming any of this on logging. They just don't want loggers cutting trees during the nesting season. I can understand that. I'm not crazy about it but the bats play a very important part in the ecosystem and if it means I can't cut where they are rearing their young I move to a different job.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Dave Shepard on April 30, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
 smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: Gary_C on April 30, 2016, 10:39:22 PM
I don't get the impression that they are blaming any of this on logging.

Logging is not being blamed nor is it involved in the problem with declining bat populations. The problem is that no consideration is given to the economic damage the rules which have been enacted that will not reverse the effects of white nose syndrome. Thus loggers and related industries will suffer for no real gain in the life cycle of the bats.

Overall the Endangered Species Act as administered primarily by the Fish and Wildlife Service has a poor record of saving any listed species. Last I knew there were some 2000 listed species with hundreds being proposed to be added every year and only 28 have ever recovered as a result of the act.

The classic case is the Spotted Owl that was used to destroy the logging industry in the Northwest US yet the species is still under attack not by logging but by the Barred Owls that are taking over their territory and killing the Spotted Owls. The environmentalists are still "Playing God" by attempting to shoot the Barred Owls to save their favored Spotted Owls.  ::)

If you really want to read about failed attempts by our government to "manage wildlife" you should read "Playing God in Yellostone" which is a well documented story about how the Park Service was killing species to save species.

We can only hope they don't try to save the bats by shooting loggers.  :)
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: coxy on May 01, 2016, 06:27:08 AM
I don't get the impression that they are blaming any of this on logging.



We can only hope they don't try to save the bats by shooting loggers.  :)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: HiTech on May 01, 2016, 06:52:10 AM
In some areas here they won't let you cut. Something about the Indiana Brown Bat. I think though when it comes to feeding the Hog Boiler on Fort Drum all rules and regulations get bypassed.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: timberlinetree on May 02, 2016, 07:23:39 AM
Good morning - timbelinetree has endured another head injury, which has landed him in the ER twice last week. He has been ordered no work, no computer, etc for two weeks so he says he will respond to anyone once he's back up and running! Thank you all for your responses :)
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: teakwood on May 02, 2016, 09:02:01 AM
I am sorry to hear that.   get better!
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: CCC4 on May 02, 2016, 09:06:54 AM
Sorry to hear this, hope all is well
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: DeerMeadowFarm on May 02, 2016, 09:32:56 AM
NRCS-funded jobs were shut down last year in Mass and will probably be shut down this year as well. I received a letter from them stating that they are considering it but are waiting for Fish and Wildlife to make some decisions. They are supposedly putting together area maps of the bat's hibernacula so they don't have to shut down the entire state but we'll see.....
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: timberlinetree on May 29, 2016, 05:58:54 AM
Thanks,back at it! Whoops shut down on our job is from June 1 st to Aug 1st.

One thing that was fun about bats is when younger we would throw rocks in the air and watch them chase them and my sisters would get scared that a bat would get caught in their hair.
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: sandsawmill14 on May 29, 2016, 07:35:11 AM
I don't get the impression that they are blaming any of this on logging.



We can only hope they don't try to save the bats by shooting loggers.  :)



make you a fake badge and tell them you are taking bat inventory and that you confiscatated the chainsaw if it comes to that :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Bat shut down?
Post by: gimpy on June 10, 2016, 12:47:11 AM
Interesting topic.

My neighbor is a 50yr+ Big Time Logger. He says the mills aren't taking logs until late this year. He says it happens every election cycle. I'm guessing he's speaking of each 4 years.