New Draconian law hurts small mills

Vautour · May 05, 2021, 05:14:04 AM

New laws here in N.B. Canada that our Premiere (governor)secretly introduce in January and just came out to the public lately regarding non stamped lumber,.. up until January is was legal to cut your own lumber to build a camp/cottage up to 600 square feet,.. it has now changed to 215 square feet,..Our Premier is a former IRVING (who controls our forest and Government) employee and still seems to be controlled by them.

SwampDonkey · May 05, 2021, 06:30:56 AM

That's seems to be regional, we are still at 625 square feet up here, where the bulk of farm production happens. But in the St Stephen region it's now 215 square feet.

Building Development Services ? WVRSC ? Western Valley Regional Service Commission

Don P · May 05, 2021, 07:58:49 AM

That sounds like an alignment with our codes. Basically allowing uninspected accessory buildings by exemption but not exempting any habitable use.

maple flats · May 05, 2021, 08:40:45 AM

The last I heard for New York State, A sawyer can certify his own lumber by signing a letter, indicating the lumber meets or exceeds the stds for stamped lumber #2 or better. You can then use it for construction of most structures, including houses.
In most cases, as I've sawn, anything that's even questionable is thrown in the slab pile. If stamped lumber like what the big box stores carry is the minimum, I'll not use anything as poor as that.

SwampDonkey · May 05, 2021, 10:16:36 AM

You can use your own sawed lumber for dwellings here if you get the lumber passed by an engineer or visually graded by a grader. You have to have paperwork, and signatures, not just your word.

moodnacreek · May 05, 2021, 12:48:11 PM

That's right about New York. The sawyer has to sell it to the job direct and the building inspector has to allow it. Not allowed in public or buildings or over 3 stories. I think certain ag. buildings are exempt even from this.

maple flats · May 05, 2021, 05:43:29 PM

That's pretty much how I heard it, I never read the law. I just confirmed it with the local codes officer and he confirmed it.

Larry · May 05, 2021, 09:44:44 PM

Quote from: maple flats on May 05, 2021, 05:43:29 PMI just confirmed it with the local codes officer and he confirmed it.

Right there is the problem.....Code Enforcement Officer. We have state building codes in Arkansas and Missouri but they have to be enforced by the county which is local government. Most of the rural counties do not have the extra funds for a Code Enforcement Officer. Even if they have the funds most don't want one. That means no building permits (sometimes a building permit so they know when to send out the tax assessor), no inspections, and no problems.

Build here with toothpicks if ya want. Insurance companies don't care. Loan companies will send out an inspector, but all they look at is if the building is pretty and completed.

SwampDonkey · May 12, 2021, 05:12:54 AM

They've backed off on the new regs last week, we are back to 625 sq foot space now.

Vautour · May 12, 2021, 07:17:42 AM

@SwampDonkey My nephew told me that last night and was hoping for more info... BOOM good news tks for update.

Vautour · May 12, 2021, 07:51:24 PM

Just heard tonight that they backed off only until December... and it goes to 215 sq feet in Jan...

Don P · May 12, 2021, 08:28:31 PM

You have a very narrow window to light up your neighbors and the media and convince the elected representatives of the nature of their positions.

HemlockKing · May 13, 2021, 05:19:39 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on May 12, 2021, 05:12:54 AM
They've backed off on the new regs last week, we are back to 625 sq foot space now.

It's 215 in Nova Scotia, well with the cost of living rising drastically and the many people now living in camper trailers and "tiny" homes now maybe we the people can push back at these ridiculous by laws. Like I say can't do nothing these days without everyone trying to dip their hands in your pockets. The government just oughta LEAVE THE PEOPLE ALONE TO DO WHAT THEY ARE TO DO ON THEIR OWN LAND, stop being a nanny state, I can understand if you're in the middle of a town or whatever, but these rules are EVERYWHERE. You can't legally off grid in Nova Scotia, literally force you to play into consumerism.

tamarackman · May 13, 2021, 08:55:12 AM

Wholeheartedly agree, the gov should butt out of people personal lives. However, you can definitely build an off grid home in Nova Scotia (maybe not in the middle of downtown Halifax). Whether you are able to obtain a mortgage or insure your off grid house is a different ball game.

Upstatewoodchuc · May 13, 2021, 09:22:25 AM

I definitely relate to this post, I live in NY and the laws make it basically illegal to build an old style timber frame because most of anything you would use is upgraded. Doesnt mean it doesn't happen though....

SwampDonkey · May 28, 2021, 05:00:05 AM

Yes, end of the year and we're in the new regs.

Province reinstates lumber exemption for small outbuildings, camps and barns | CBC News

HemlockKing · May 28, 2021, 05:15:09 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on May 28, 2021, 05:00:05 AM
Yes, end of the year and we're in the new regs.

Province reinstates lumber exemption for small outbuildings, camps and barns | CBC News

Good for you fellas. Only a matter of
Time here, 215 sq ft?!

SwampDonkey · May 28, 2021, 05:21:00 AM

The new 215 sq foot regs, not the old regs.

Magicman · May 28, 2021, 08:48:32 AM

Please excuse me for shaking my head. I sawed some of the straightest/truest/no knot, Longleaf Pine framing lumber this week that has ever come off of a sawmill bed. Shown above; 2X8's on the left and 2X6's on the right. It will be air dried and it will all be used for framing in new homes.

HemlockKing · May 28, 2021, 09:07:53 AM

Quote from: Magicman on May 28, 2021, 08:48:32 AM

Please excuse me for shaking my head. I sawed some of the straightest/truest/no knot, Longleaf Pine framing lumber this week that has ever come off of a sawmill bed. Shown above; 2X8's on the left and 2X6's on the right. It will be air dried and it will all be used for framing in new homes.

Our fore fathers would be in total disbelief/shock/rage, I'm sure for both our country's, they worked hard to build the new world, now you can't even harvest sticks off your own land and make a shack to sleep in on many places. Along with many other regulations.

Magicman · May 28, 2021, 09:24:49 AM

Most rules/regulations are generated and enforced by folks using scare tactics and thereby building a fortress around themselves and their entity to protect themselves and their jobs. Very self serving.

woodyone.john · May 28, 2021, 03:16:24 PM

This thread is one of the many reasons why the forum is so valuable. There are areas on the planet that have a long ,proud and detailed knowledge of wooden building and construction that's held under increasingly grey scalps ,pink even, that is gradually (rapidly) being lost. Tick box solutions tend to create unintended consequences of higher costs, dispocession of self-reliance and serve the industry body's who help make the rules that help themselves. The local authorities just want to step out of the loop of liability and manage their consent time frames. Sadly some owners and contractors have abused the previous system and so down we slide on the spiral. We are at risk of losing a cheap environmentaly appropriate material to home us and our children. So sad.
Sorry old man rant.

longtime lurker · May 28, 2021, 05:31:36 PM

I like to look at this from the other side of the coin: As a buyer of lumber... a person sinking their life's savings and a fair bit of income yet to be earned as well.. into a house.

Yeah, I think I want to know that my house is built using lumber that has been assessed as fit for purpose. I don't know much about lumber, and I don't know the builder too well, but yeah... I want to know that there's not some shoddy, structurally unsound, material being used to build my home that I'm going to be paying off for the next 20 years.

There's a lot of dodgy, fly-by-night, operators in the construction industry. People who will take your money and sell you a pigs ear claiming its a silk purse and by the time it's all going bad they've folded up shop and gone, to re-emerge somewhere else and start up again. And I think that - building practices aside - the consumer needs a degree of protection so that we can say "at least the materials were suited to the task" so it's construction failure not material failure.

Around here there's a guy who's a grader. And if one of the little hobby mills wants a packet of lumber graded he'll come in and grade it for them, and often as not he'll do it for beer on a Saturday morning or after work. Bigger packets: well he expects to be paid, because he has taken the time to get a skill set and people deserve to be rewarded for their skills. But if you're organised and don't screw him around he's pretty cheap for the service he provides... and he'll go toe to toe with a building inspector once he's put that stamp on because that's part of the service he provides.
And I'll bet if any y'all look there's a guy just like him working in a commercial mill near you. But around here that guy is me.

I know that a grade stamp doesn't change the attributes of a piece of wood. And I know that most sawmillers regardless of size won't sell wood that's unsound. But complaining about consumer protection laws while expecting a warranty on things like your car or washing machine is kinda hypocritical to me. (If you want to mill timber for your own projects then that should be different - I'm talking here about lumber being sold to a consumer not lumber being milled for the millers own house)

Grade the lumber, and charge like you can. It's not that hard.

Magicman · May 28, 2021, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: longtime lurker on May 28, 2021, 05:31:36 PMBut around here that guy is me.

Which is exactly the reply that I would expect.

btulloh · May 28, 2021, 05:53:27 PM

Quote from: longtime lurker on May 28, 2021, 05:31:36 PM
I like to look at this from the other side of the coin: As a buyer of lumber... a person sinking their life's savings and a fair bit of income yet to be earned as well.. into a house.

Yeah, I think I want to know that my house is built using lumber that has been assessed as fit for purpose. I don't know much about lumber, and I don't know the builder too well, but yeah... I want to know that there's not some shoddy, structurally unsound, material being used to build my home that I'm going to be paying off for the next 20 years.

There's a lot of dodgy, fly-by-night, operators in the construction industry. People who will take your money and sell you a pigs ear claiming its a silk purse and by the time it's all going bad they've folded up shop and gone, to re-emerge somewhere else and start up again. And I think that - building practices aside - the consumer needs a degree of protection so that we can say "at least the materials were suited to the task" so it's construction failure not material failure.

Around here there's a guy who's a grader. And if one of the little hobby mills wants a packet of lumber graded he'll come in and grade it for them, and often as not he'll do it for beer on a Saturday morning or after work. Bigger packets: well he expects to be paid, because he has taken the time to get a skill set and people deserve to be rewarded for their skills. But if you're organised and don't screw him around he's pretty cheap for the service he provides... and he'll go toe to toe with a building inspector once he's put that stamp on because that's part of the service he provides.
And I'll bet if any y'all look there's a guy just like him working in a commercial mill near you. But around here that guy is me.

I know that a grade stamp doesn't change the attributes of a piece of wood. And I know that most sawmillers regardless of size won't sell wood that's unsound. But complaining about consumer protection laws while expecting a warranty on things like your car or washing machine is kinda hypocritical to me. (If you want to mill timber for your own projects then that should be different - I'm talking here about lumber being sold to a consumer not lumber being milled for the millers own house)

Grade the lumber, and charge like you can. It's not that hard.

If getting lumber graded and stamped here worked the way you're describing it would be a pretty reasonable process for the small independent guy, but it's much more rigid, difficult, and not generally feasible for small quantities. Varies by state of course, but not a lot.
I'd love to get a grade stamp on some lumber for a couple beers or a even a couple hundred bucks.

Your system sounds kind of rational and functional, which means it could never be adopted here.