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Converting Tons to Boardfeet

Started by tbeforester, June 22, 2021, 03:15:31 PM

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tbeforester

Hello all,

I am looking for a method of converting tonnage into boardfeet. If it helps any, all of my conversion will be poplar peelers. My buyer buys all our peelers by tonnage and I need to convert this over to boardfeet for management purposes. Thanks

WV Sawmiller

   I may be totally out in left field but lacking any other conversion data I would use the weight calculations listed on the Extras tab above on the FF home page.

   For tulip poplar I see it lists the weight is 3.1 lb per bf. If my math is right a ton of green tulip poplar would be 645.16 bf. (2,000 lbs/3.1 lb/bf= 645.16 bf).

   Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

SwampDonkey

What kind of popple?

Aspen is 2.4 ton in a cord and 2 cord per thousand, so 4.8 tons in a thousand.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

scsmith42

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 22, 2021, 03:25:45 PM
  I may be totally out in left field but lacking any other conversion data I would use the weight calculations listed on the Extras tab above on the FF home page.

  For tulip poplar I see it lists the weight is 3.1 lb per bf. If my math is right a ton of green tulip poplar would be 645.16 bf. (2,000 lbs/3.1 lb/bf= 645.16 bf).

  Good luck.
Wouldn't 3.1 lb / bf be a dry weight?
I'm not sure what "peelers" are but I presume that they are green and not dry?
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Don P

Surely if he has been doing this there must be some some recordkeeping on yield that would be more accurate than trying to do this from scratch.

stavebuyer

Diameter means everything especially on Doyle. I bought and sold a world of peelers and our trucks ran the big road so every load went across the scales to be maxed out for gross as well axle weight. The logs were all bought stick scaled on Doyle on the 17' peeler scale. 25 tons would run anywhere from 2900-4000' bd ft Doyle. 16" + diameter log average will get you 4000' and 11-12" logs will get you 3000'



Yellow Poplar. For those not familiar with "peelers"  they are used for appearance grade hardwood plywood centers.

stavebuyer

Quote from: Don P on June 22, 2021, 07:36:06 PM
Surely if he has been doing this there must be some some recordkeeping on yield that would be more accurate than trying to do this from scratch.
I learned a valuable lesson shipping a load to Georgia as a favor. They quoted a per ton price but scaled the logs which were small and then "converted" the Doyle scale back to tons. Didn't cover what I paid for the logs let alone the freight from KY to GA. 

stavebuyer

Quote from: tbeforester on June 22, 2021, 03:15:31 PM
Hello all,

I am looking for a method of converting tonnage into boardfeet. If it helps any, all of my conversion will be poplar peelers. My buyer buys all our peelers by tonnage and I need to convert this over to boardfeet for management purposes. Thanks
7 tons per mbf Doyle is a real world average.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: scsmith42 on June 22, 2021, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 22, 2021, 03:25:45 PM
  I may be totally out in left field but lacking any other conversion data I would use the weight calculations listed on the Extras tab above on the FF home page.

  For tulip poplar I see it lists the weight is 3.1 lb per bf. If my math is right a ton of green tulip poplar would be 645.16 bf. (2,000 lbs/3.1 lb/bf= 645.16 bf).

  Good luck.
Wouldn't 3.1 lb / bf be a dry weight?
I'm not sure what "peelers" are but I presume that they are green and not dry?
I see I misquoted the weight as 3.1 and I should have said 3.2 and the FF toolbox does say that is green weight. I am listing yellow poplar not popple or aspen or some other species that get called poplar. 

   I went to the FF toolbox under the Extras tab, and looked under the log/lumber weight selection, selected Yellow poplar and put in quantity =1 and hit the "weighs" button to get an answer of 3.2 lbs.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

barbender

WV, that may be the weight of sawn lumber as well? 
Too many irons in the fire

GAB

Quote from: stavebuyer on June 22, 2021, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: tbeforester on June 22, 2021, 03:15:31 PM
Hello all,

I am looking for a method of converting tonnage into boardfeet. If it helps any, all of my conversion will be poplar peelers. My buyer buys all our peelers by tonnage and I need to convert this over to boardfeet for management purposes. Thanks
7 tons per mbf Doyle is a real world average.
@stavebuyer:
Could you please explain to me where I am wrong in my thinking.
You wrote: "7 tons per mbf Doyle is a real world average."
In my simple mind that equates to 14 pounds per bdft or 168pounds per cubic foot.
Fresh water is 62.4 #/cuft and poplar logs last I knew floated.
I'm missing something.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

stavebuyer

Quote from: GAB on June 23, 2021, 09:01:35 AM
Quote from: stavebuyer on June 22, 2021, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: tbeforester on June 22, 2021, 03:15:31 PM
Hello all,

I am looking for a method of converting tonnage into boardfeet. If it helps any, all of my conversion will be poplar peelers. My buyer buys all our peelers by tonnage and I need to convert this over to boardfeet for management purposes. Thanks
7 tons per mbf Doyle is a real world average.
@stavebuyer:
Could you please explain to me where I am wrong in my thinking.
You wrote: "7 tons per mbf Doyle is a real world average."
In my simple mind that equates to 14 pounds per bdft or 168pounds per cubic foot.
Fresh water is 62.4 #/cuft and poplar logs last I knew floated.
I'm missing something.
GAB
25 ton payload on a average tractor trailer that scaled 3500board ft . So you have 3.5mbf so 25 tons of logs scaling 3.5 thousand board ft is 25 tons divided by 3.5 thousand  gives you 7.14 tons for each of the 3.5 thousand feet on the truck.

barbender

You guys are thinking of a solid cubic foot or whatever volume of wood. The original question concerned LOGS. There is a big difference in weight between 1000 bf Doyle of sawn lumber, and 1000 bf Doyle of LOGS. The logs contain the lumber, plus still have the bark, slabs, and sawdust attached.
Too many irons in the fire

stavebuyer

Weight per board foot the 25 tons that scale 3500bdt ft would be

25 tons x 2000lbs per ton=50,000lbs of logs

per foot would be 50,000lbs/3500ft or 14.28 lbs per board foot in the log.

These are poplar peeler logs. They buy them down to 8" diameter inside the bark scaled on Doyles rule and the pricing paid generally buys the smaller logs and not prime sawlogs so the log size tends run small and the weight per foot is therefore higher than sawlogs tend to run.




Gary_C

Here is the quick and dirty way to figure. The official (MNDNR) aspen conversion for weight to cords is 3800  4500 lbs per cord. There is roughly 500 bd ft in a cord so 2 x 3800 4500 or 7600 9000 lbs will get you from pounds to mbf. Or it's 3.8 4.5 tons per mbf.

I said dirty but not fair as that aspen especially peeled will dry real fast and especially fast on a truck going down the road. Advantage buyer but not seller.

PS: A 50,000 lb load of aspen will run 11+ cords all day every day.

Edit: I was wrong on the conversion. It was 3800 lbs on basswood and 4500 on aspen.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

barbender

Gary I thought the mills used 4500 pounds per cord for Aspen, DNR notwithstanding?
Too many irons in the fire

Gary_C

You could be right. I did find this table that apparently was updated in 2012.
https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/timber_sales/notices/species-weights.pdf

There has always been a lot of complaining about the weight conversions so perhaps they updated the tables. I have always used 4500 for all pine conversions and I see in this table that Basswood at 4600 is even heavier than Aspen.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

stavebuyer

Cords to log scale is a meaningless number especially if going to Doyle scale. The number I gave is correct for yellow poplar in the diameters commonly shipped for peelers. 
 

SwampDonkey

Quote from: stavebuyer on June 22, 2021, 08:00:51 PM
Yellow Poplar. For those not familiar with "peelers"  they are used for appearance grade hardwood plywood centers.
They do that with aspen here, you can smell the aspirin smell when you run it through the table saw. Many aspen are rotary peeled for berry boxes to. If you buy a strawberry/raspberry from a farm in New Brunswick, they are sold in aspen veneer boxes. Otherwise you know they ain't grown in NB.


raspberries in aspen boxes, inside a cardboard flat.


"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

barbender

Gary, I just checked with one of the mill foresters I work with. He said Aspen- 4500/cord, Balsam-4700/cord, and Spruce-4200/cord. This is a paper mill and the only species they buy. Red pine is converted at 4800/cord at Potlatch for stud bolts, unless that has changed. I can't remember different hardwoods, I think red oak was 5000 or 5200. Everywhere I hauled Red Oak stick scaled anyways, but when you're hauling wood you have a decent idea of what the various woods weigh, or at least how much volume you can put on a load. Especially running center mount where you load yourself (or if you're a one man logging show and load yourself with the forwarder😊)
Too many irons in the fire

SwampDonkey

Still no clue where the OP is from and what he's calling poplar.

The numbers we used up here was tonnage to pulp or firewood cords for the most part. Harwood tonnage worked out to 2.5 metric tonnes per cord, that's 10 % more per ton when using a short ton. And 2.27 metric tonnes with aspen in a cord. We've always used 2 cord per thousand as well, but of course your dealing with actual sawlogs to, not firewood logs to get the footage. Doyle up here is never used, only Bangor Rule or New Brunswick Rule, both rules give better scale than Doyle. We don't get the big dollars here because the big wood is pretty much gone, so we have to get a little better scale, even if it don't amount to a lot. What we get for veneer price is laughable to some of you guys. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Quote from: barbender on June 23, 2021, 02:08:40 PM
Gary, I just checked with one of the mill foresters I work with. He said Aspen- 4500/cord, Balsam-4700/cord, and Spruce-4200/cord.
Balsam is heavier than spruce, but it's not heavier than aspen. I handle lots of green firewood both aspen and fir, and aspen is heavier, not by a lot, but I'm certain it's 4800/cord. Red pine is heavy to, like red maple, but not as heavy as hard maple or yellow birch.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Jeff

Im told the Forestry Forum weight calculator was reported to have "discrepancies"

Please read the disclaimer on the weight calculator page that has always been there. The calcs are a broad estimate on weight. A rough idea. The only way you know is to weigh the logs.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Gary_C

Quote from: stavebuyer on June 23, 2021, 01:05:21 PM
Cords to log scale is a meaningless number especially if going to Doyle scale. 
These conversions are not meaningless when you are buying or working a sale with mixed species and products. If for example you have a sale with both cords and mbf of one species which requires two different destinations, the difference in price may not be enough to sort logs. Plus you need to know how many full loads you have of each product. 


Quote from: SwampDonkey on June 23, 2021, 02:09:34 PM
Still no clue where the OP is from and what he's calling poplar.


That's alright, we are doing OK without him.   :D

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

stavebuyer

If the conversion is to Doyle the average diameter is critical to any calculation involving measured scale. Doesn't matter if if you are comparing or contrasting cunits/tons/ or cords with footage. You load the truck you have 12 cords and 25 tons +/-(80,000 non-Michigan truck). If its measured Doyle depending on diameter the footage can vary immensely even if you know exactly how many measured cords or weighed tons.


16' 12" log has 64 bf Doyle. It would take 4 these to make a 4x4x8 cord so 256/cord
16 24" log has 400 bf Doyle. It Would only take 2 of these logs to make a 4x4x8 cord 800/Cord
and the cords won't have enough weight difference to argue over.

Same 16' 12" log on INT =100bf so  4 logs would make 400ft'/cord on Int Rule
Same 16' 24 log on INT=425bf so 2logs =850'/cord Int Rule

Same truck with bunks loaded the same will have 25 tons/12 cords but could honestly measured to yield

12 cords 12" logs Doyle=3072bd/ft  8.1 tons per MBF
12 cords 24" logs Doyle=9600bd/ft  2.6 tons per MBF
12 cords 12" logs Int=4800bd/ft      5.1 tons per MBF
12 cords 24" logs Int=10,200bd/ft   2.5 tons per MBF

You have to know your diameter.

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