Beginner 24x40 in Southern Vermont

[Lennyzx11]

5Aug2022 Introduction.
Hi everyone. I'm about to begin my solo build of a 24x40 Pavilion/Carport and would like to chronicle the build and ask for questions/comments here. I am a beginner, worked with construction and remodeling a lot of my 59 years and this is something I've been wanting to do for a long time. Also built a couple of wooden boats when I was into that.
But never a TimberFrame.
My wife rolled over in bed a couple of nights ago, grumbled because of the Iphone's light waking here at 2 am and asked, "What are you doing?" Not very nicely either I must say.
"Learning about Podgers and Prickers." I told her. Her response was definitely not very nice to that either.
So if you all don't mind, Since it doesn't appear that she shares my enthusiam in this new endeavor, I'll continue reading all the back topics, following Youtube related content, and generally go the long way about building my first Timberframe boring you with the incessant questions.
Lenny Dickson in Bennington Vermont

[Lennyzx11]

5AUG2022 Plans and Foundation

My plans are purchased from Timberframe HQ. I'll follow them pretty closely but do have a few changes I wanted to ask the group if that's realistic or not.


I hired a local guy to do the concrete work. I wanted a quality foundation and Vermont has a code requirement of 5 ft frost walls and I wanted to build into a slope as a continuation of my 24x24 shop. A little more than I could get done by myself without concrete tooling (and knowledge). 

 

 

[Lennyzx11]

5AUG2022 Chain Mortiser ?

After reading through the past posts regarding Chain mortisers, I think I want one.
Leaning towards the Makita due to the following on here. 
Any recommendations on where to order one rather than just sending off for one through Amazon?
I try to support forum sponsors and "good people" rather than corporations as much as I can.
Thank you,
Lenny

[Jim_Rogers]

I got mine through TimberWolf tools, years ago.
I don't know how their price compares to Amazon. But they are the guys to go to for parts, such as chains, and such.

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

After staring at the perspective with my head sideways  :D, are the common rafters big enough, or can they be made big enough to allow sliding the purlin uphill to over the web member? is the web already splayed to a 45? That eccentric loading is not great, especially in snow country.

[Lennyzx11]

After staring at the perspective with my head sideways  :D, are the common rafters big enough, or can they be made big enough to allow sliding the purlin uphill to over the web member? is the web already splayed to a 45? That eccentric loading is not great, especially in snow country.

Sorry about that Don. Here's it turned correctly hopefully.


 

First question. My local yard is wanting to sell me Eastern White Pine. I want to stay with a clear span inside. With a 40 psf load required. I'm having trouble working through the calculations if the 8x10 in the plans would pass vs Douglas fir. If it won't pass, I may need to go to LVLs or Glulams in those tie beams from front to back (24' span)
It will also have braces at each end.
The outer walls will have a center post.
Can you help me work my way through what size of EWP if it is even available?
8:12 pitch, metal roof with no sheathing and no storage planned. 40 psf snow load per code.
Thank you,
Lenny

[Don P]

That generates more plan questions. That is copyright and we are diving into his plans, might want to ask first. That appears to be 4 kingpost trusses supporting the ridge and purlins. If so the tie is simply a tension element, a cable. There should be no bending load on it. Can you post detail pics of the heel joint, the tie to post joint, and the top of kingpost joint? I'm assuming the bent spacing is ~13'?

[Lennyzx11]

That generates more plan questions. That is copyright and we are diving into his plans, might want to ask first. That appears to be 4 kingpost trusses supporting the ridge and purlins. If so the tie is simply a tension element, a cable. There should be no bending load on it. Can you post detail pics of the heel joint, the tie to post joint, and the top of kingpost joint? I'm assuming the bent spacing is ~13'?

Thank you for the help Don.
Disclaimer. These plans are copyrighted by Timberframe HQ and pictures are NOT engineered or permission given to be used for building. Only posted to further my knowledge of my particular set for my education and clarification as I work alone.
Lenny
Common Rafter


 
King Post


 
Right End Bottom Chord


 

[Jim_Rogers]

The issue I have with TFHQ plans, and I have talked to them about it, is that all their braces and tenons are centered on the timbers with centered tenons.

You have to understand that these designers are used to working with timbers that have been planned on all four sides are true to size with perfect 90° corners.

When we work with our rough sawn timbers these joints are somewhat harder to layout and cut. This is what I discussed with them. And that their plans should be tailored more for rough sawn timbers. Their reply was that they did a survey of customer wants and this is what they feel their customer base wants.

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

I've got fewer problems with putting a mortise in the center of a timber than on an edge.

On this, it is designed as a truss, so the bottom chord is really just acting as a tension element. The kingpost is also simply a rope dangled from the peak, lashed to the center of the tie to hold it up from sagging. The web members are compression members, posts. They launch from the dangling king rod and support underneath the top chord, dividing its span into 2 shorter spans. Point loads from above should be placed over those web members.

The detailing looks kinda lightweight. Find the guild's series on trusses online and read the one on kingpost trusses... uhh now I need to, its been awhile.

[Lennyzx11]

@Jim, I was kinda wondering about that centered tenon as I have been learning why it's offset by those of you in the trade and understood the reasons.

@Don, that was one of my worries if I changed to EWP. I didn't see the structural support there.
My "kinda" wish was to convert to Queen post for a bit of attic storage, Be able to span 24 ft, and clear that loft door with the top of the tie(s).
I bought this set so I could have something to learn how the "experts" did it.

Going to be close though. The bottom of that loft door is 111" from floor. So that means a top plate/Rafter tie and posts tall enough to drive under all have to fit.

Lenny

[Lennyzx11]

So I've read some past posts. And am trying to figure out if the 24' span in EWP can be done.

I plugged numbers into the beam span formula as such but I can't figure out where to go from there.

24' span (I didn't figure any braces into the equation yet) times 12' Bent Spacing = 288 Square feet.
It also seems like some of the load would be placed on the ridge beam or top/plate(s) to the posts also but I'm not sure.

40 psf snow load times 288 sf = 11250 = total loads

I then looked up the figures in the wood tables for EWP and got this
875 for Fiber
1.1 (million) for elasticity
125 psi for shear.

The bottom of the table(s) did populate but I'm unsure what to do next to see if it works with an 8x8 beam or 8x10, etc.
Point me in the right direction to continue working it out?
Thank you,
Lenny

[Don P]

A truss is a different animal than a beam that is simply in bending. A "pure" truss is carrying the load axially along the timbers, that is, the members of the truss are acting as columns and cables rather than as beams. With a roof load on the top chord of this truss the situation is a bit more complex, we have what the old engineers called a beam-column, now it is called a member in combined loading.

So, it takes a different set of equations to figure out the stresses in the members and to check the combined interaction effect of axial loading with bending. An easy way to think about the forces going on in the top chord... imagine standing a yardstick up and pushing down on the end. It will fail by buckling sideways. That is an axial, or column, load. Now, with some column load reach down and push sideways on the stick, a bending load. You are making it want to buckle even more so you must reduce the column load to account for and safely interact with the bending load. It is a dance, the more column capacity used the less bending capacity is available and vice versa.

If I didn't lose you this is a kingpost calc, it is not slick or maybe even gibberish;
Untitled (forestryforum.com)
For design values  for #2 EWP heavy timber use Fb=575, E=.9, Fv=125, Emin=.330

Use the entire span+ overhangs x bent spacing x (LL+DL) to get the total load.

Start there, redirect wherever or if I lost you

[Lennyzx11]

A truss is a different animal than a beam that is simply in bending. A "pure" truss is carrying the load axially along the timbers, that is, the members of the truss are acting as columns and cables rather than as beams. With a roof load on the top chord of this truss the situation is a bit more complex, we have what the old engineers called a beam-column, now it is called a member in combined loading.

So, it takes a different set of equations to figure out the stresses in the members and to check the combined interaction effect of axial loading with bending. An easy way to think about the forces going on in the top chord... imagine standing a yardstick up and pushing down on the end. It will fail by buckling sideways. That is an axial, or column, load. Now, with some column load reach down and push sideways on the stick, a bending load. You are making it want to buckle even more so you must reduce the column load to account for and safely interact with the bending load. It is a dance, the more column capacity used the less bending capacity is available and vice versa.

If I didn't lose you this is a kingpost calc, it is not slick or maybe even gibberish;
Untitled (forestryforum.com)
For design values  for #2 EWP heavy timber use Fb=575, E=.9, Fv=125, Emin=.330

Use the entire span+ overhangs x bent spacing x (LL+DL) to get the total load.

Start there, redirect wherever or if I I lost you

I had an answer type out in detail but i guess my log in timed out and I lost it.
I assumed the dead load should be the timber weights of each truss? It worked out to 870 lbs or so.
The total load per bent worked out to 1867110.04 which is a large number to me but I don't have any comparison to judge.
Lenny

[Don P]

Typically designers use either 10 or 15 lbs per square foot for dead load. Live load will be your local design snow load, 40 psf.

To run an example I'll go quick and dirty, you'll need to substitute good numbers.
The load on a truss goes from halfway to one truss on each side, so the tributary width is around 12'. The trib length is the overall length of the truss, I'm guessing 28'. 12x28=336 square feet of area tributary to the truss.

we determined the total load (DL + LL)=50 psf
336 square feet x 50 ponds per square foot=16800 lbs total load on each central truss.

I'm gonna go dive under the truck and try not to melt a post off the battery this time  :D. I'll check on you in a bit.

[Lennyzx11]

Typically designers use either 10 or 15 lbs per square foot for dead load. Live load will be your local design snow load, 40 psf.

To run an example I'll go quick and dirty, you'll need to substitute good numbers.
The load on a truss goes from halfway to one truss on each side, so the tributary width is around 12'. The trib length is the overall length of the truss, I'm guessing 28'. 12x28=336 square feet of area tributary to the truss.

we determined the total load (DL + LL)=50 psf
336 square feet x 50 ponds per square foot=16800 lbs total load on each central truss.

I'm gonna go dive under the truck and try not to melt a post off the battery this time  :D. I'll check on you in a bit.

I managed to explode a battery in my face long ago. Wasn't fun.
So by plugging in 16800 lbs total load into your worksheet, I came up that a 10.3 depth and 8" wide would pass. OR a 8.5 wide by 10 depth.
I'm inclined to use the 8" wide to match the 8x8 posts. have the mill cut them at 10.5 or 11" in depth.
Would I lose or gain something if I used a splined splice at the king post rather than a continuous beam for the top chord?
Or used a queen post configuration instead?

[Lennyzx11]

Typically designers use either 10 or 15 lbs per square foot for dead load. Live load will be your local design snow load, 40 psf.

To run an example I'll go quick and dirty, you'll need to substitute good numbers.
The load on a truss goes from halfway to one truss on each side, so the tributary width is around 12'. The trib length is the overall length of the truss, I'm guessing 28'. 12x28=336 square feet of area tributary to the truss.

we determined the total load (DL + LL)=50 psf
336 square feet x 50 ponds per square foot=16800 lbs total load on each central truss.

I'm gonna go dive under the truck and try not to melt a post off the battery this time  :D. I'll check on you in a bit.

I managed to explode a battery in my face long ago. Wasn't fun.
So by plugging in 16800 lbs total load into your worksheet, I came up that a 10.3 depth and 8" wide would pass. OR a 8.5 wide by 10 depth.
I'm inclined to use the 8" wide to match the 8x8 posts. have the mill cut them at 10.5 or 11" in depth.
Would I lose or gain something if I used a splined splice at the king post rather than a continuous beam for the top chord?
Or used a queen post configuration instead?

EDIT, I forgot to ask. Am I allowed anything since there will be braces at each end from top chord to post? 
I seem to remember that 1 brace's span could be taken off the span total but not sure.

[Jim_Rogers]

You maybe using the wrong terms. The top cord is like a rafter, it's on a slope. The bottom cord is like a tie beam, horizontal.
the king post is hung or hanging from the two top cords. And the timber going from the king post up to the top cords are called struts.

The king post holds up the bottom cord.

Now, if you change your design to a queen post truss, then the names are the same accept that there are other timbers in the truss. The timber going between the two queen post is called the straining beam.

Each timber gets its name based on its location in the frame.

Jim Rogers

[Lennyzx11]

You maybe using the wrong terms. The top cord is like a rafter, it's on a slope. The bottom cord is like a tie beam, horizontal.
the king post is hung or hanging from the two top cords. And the timber going from the king post up to the top cords are called struts.

The king post hold up the bottom cord.

Now, if you change your design to a queen post truss, then the names are the same accept that there are other timbers in the truss. The timber going between the two queen post is called the straining beam.

Each timber gets its name based on its location in the frame.

Jim Rogers

You're right Jim. I should have been saying Bottom chord. I knew that. Not the first time I've been called out for not knowing my top from my bottom!
Top chord and Principal Rafter are the same terms?

[Jim_Rogers]

If you have a common roof rafter system each rafter is small and are usually space out to 16", 18" or 24".
The roof boards (if using boards) run from gable to gable.
If you have a principal roof rafter system each rafter is over a bent. Then there are purlins that run from rafter to rafter.
The roof boards run from ridge to eave.

Principal rafter (I believe) is not part of a truss. Top cord is part of a truss.

Each timber gets its name by the location in the frame.

At the top of this section is a Glossary of Terms. You may need to brush up on those, so we all understand what you are saying.

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

I'm getting a pass with 8x12 top chords.

Reading down, the bottom chord has 9450 lbs of tension. You can spline through the kingpost, the connection at each end of the spline to the bottom chord members needs to be good for ~10,000 lbs at each end. You will have the same ~5 tons of force trying to shear the end off the bottom chord heeljoint. This is where a steel rod hidden in the top surface of the bottom chord, running from the heel of one top chord member, through the spline hole and grabbing the opposite heel, would probably be the most secure way to restrain that horizontal truss spreading force.

I haven't sized the bottom chord. The size is mostly aesthetic if it is just a tie, the joints are the bear.

Compression at the ridge ~7500 lbs, make sure there is enough surface area to avoid crushing in this and the heeljoint. Now another rabbit hole. You have serious compression forces acting at something between parallel and perpendicular to grain. We have design values published for parallel and perp to grain only. You need allowable compression at some angle between those two. Google "Hankinson Formula" for an explanation on how to interpolate. There was a good section on this joint, I think it was in the commentary to the Guild's design standard.

Web compression is modest

Kingpost tension. The kingpost is pinched between the top chords at its upper end and is dangling down. It has about 2 tons pulling down on it from the bottom chord when the truss is fully loaded. If you are doing a discontinuous bottom chord tabled and splined into the kingpost I would cant the bottom chord members into a very slight arch during construction so when things are settled in and delected the bottom chord isn't seen as sagging. Functionally that would be fine but a smiling bottom chord makes me sad  :D.

The top chord pass/fail and % of strength interaction. The equations behind that are comparing the axial and bending forces and making sure the timber can handle the combination of both loads concurrently.

From there down mostly compression and column stability checks in the compression members. Really whittle thickness or depth down on something and you'll see these start to lose column stability factor, then fail in buckling as members become too slim to avoid buckling.

I better quit rambling and see what you need next. A queenpost truss is going to have a different set of equations modelling its behavior. The numbers and member sizes you generate for a kingpost truss will not really apply to a queenpost truss.

Check bottom chord for heeljoint shear, the red plane. Use Hankinson the check the notch face for localized crushing. Bisect that notch angle, do the crush math once ;);


 

A spline of interlocked black gum is passed through the kingpost and pegged at each side, i think there are 7 pegs on each side of this one. Lower load and 24' span x 10' bent spacing.


 

[Lennyzx11]

If you have a common roof rafter system each rafter is small and are usually space out to 16", 18" or 24".
The roof boards (if using boards) run from gable to gable.
If you have a principal roof rafter system each rafter is over a bent. Then there are purlins that run from rafter to rafter.
The roof boards run from ridge to eave.

Principal rafter (I believe) is not part of a truss. Top cord is part of a truss.

Each timber gets its name by the location in the frame.

At the top of this section is a Glossary of Terms. You may need to brush up on those, so we all understand what you are saying.

Jim Rogers

I was confused. I got this from your link is where I assumed that. I understand now, (I think).
CHORD. In a truss, the major uppermost member (top chord) or lowermost member (bottom chord). In a roof truss, the principal rafters serve as top chords, the tie beam as bottom chord.

My plans show a "Principal Rafter" as the top of each Bent and "Common rafters" spaced out over those for the roof. 
Thank you for referring me to the glossary of terms. More good reading that I missed when I first joined.
Lenny

[Lennyzx11]

I'm getting a pass with 8x12 top chords.

Reading down, the bottom chord has 9450 lbs of tension. You can spline through the kingpost, the connection at each end of the spline to the bottom chord members needs to be good for ~10,000 lbs at each end. You will have the same ~5 tons of force trying to shear the end off the bottom chord heeljoint. This is where a steel rod hidden in the top surface of the bottom chord, running from the heel of one top chord member, through the spline hole and grabbing the opposite heel, would probably be the most secure way to restrain that horizontal truss spreading force.

I haven't sized the bottom chord. The size is mostly aesthetic if it is just a tie, the joints are the bear.

Compression at the ridge ~7500 lbs, make sure there is enough surface area to avoid crushing in this and the heeljoint. Now another rabbit hole. You have serious compression forces acting at something between parallel and perpendicular to grain. We have design values published for parallel and perp to grain only. You need allowable compression at some angle between those two. Google "Hankinson Formula" for an explanation on how to interpolate. There was a good section on this joint, I think it was in the commentary to the Guild's design standard.

Web compression is modest

Kingpost tension. The kingpost is pinched between the top chords at its upper end and is dangling down. It has about 2 tons pulling down on it from the bottom chord when the truss is fully loaded. If you are doing a discontinuous bottom chord tabled and splined into the kingpost I would cant the bottom chord members into a very slight arch during construction so when things are settled in and delected the bottom chord isn't seen as sagging. Functionally that would be fine but a smiling bottom chord makes me sad  :D.

The top chord pass/fail and % of strength interaction. The equations behind that are comparing the axial and bending forces and making sure the timber can handle the combination of both loads concurrently.

From there down mostly compression and column stability checks in the compression members. Really whittle thickness or depth down on something and you'll see these start to lose column stability factor, then fail in buckling as members become too slim to avoid buckling.

I better quit rambling and see what you need next. A queenpost truss is going to have a different set of equations modelling its behavior. The numbers and member sizes you generate for a kingpost truss will not really apply to a queenpost truss.

Don, Can I convert this Kingpost design to a queenpost relatively easily without losing strength and still matching the dimensional outer measurements?


 

[Don P]

Yes, you can build a 24' gueenpost truss that is equally strong.

[Lennyzx11]

Yes, you can build a 24' gueenpost truss that is equally strong.

I've started working on the redesign of the truss. Same outer dimensions leaves a Rafter length of roughly 15 ft. 
I've been reading through the past posts to gather as much "rules of thumb" and I have Chappels "Timber Framers Workshop" I've been studying.
So I plan on the collar tie at the 1/3  from the top with a purlin located there also. And then queen posts located under the collar tie with a purlin located there. Since these are roughly 5 ft apart so I believe more will be needed to support a tin roof/common rafters 9/12 roof. So I'm thinking purlins with a 24" spacing.
Also struts from the bottom of each queen post to the common rafter having a 53 degree angle at the strut lower and 90 at the top strut to principal rafter with another purlin located there. 
Should the purlin(s) be located above or below the tie in points for the collar tie & the queen posts as best practice to avoid too much cutting of the Principal rafters in one area? If so, 8" between like the post to tie beam advice given elsewhere?
Thank you for the help!
BTW, I've gathered up a Witherby 2" chisel, a Barr 1 1/2" and an unknown corner chisel that appears to have an M on it faintly. 
Power tools added to the regular construction stuff include a Linear link Skil 77 worm drive saw, a Mag77 worm saw, and the latest... A Makita 7401L chain Mortiser in like new shape! All found through Marketplace and Craigslist.
Ordered the two center 24' tie beams and the 8x8 posts at the local mill. 
Getting closer to the big start!

[Don P]

That'll take a picture as it develops.
This is a good article on Queenpost trusses;
NCPTT | Historic American Roof Trusses: II. Queenpost Trusses (2004-11) (nps.gov)

[Don P]

This is a good explanation of truss design;
Understanding and Analysing Trusses - YouTube

I've done a few using the method of joints longhand, its good to understand what is going on but that kind of number crunching is where computers shine. This is from a free program, very limited and so old I'll have to load the pic from my old computer in a minute, but there are others out there.



 

My vertical loads in black hanging from the panel points represent 2000 lbs at each node with 1000 lbs at the supports, notice the vertical reactions at the supports sum to roughly 12000 lbs on the truss. You'll see I entered 20 for each vertical load so add 2 zeros to all those numbers for VERY rough ballpark estimates of compression and tension in the joints that must be resisted. Those same forces are the axial, along the grain, forces within the members. Once you have those numbers you know the forces to resist. With most roof trusses the heeljoint is the highest stress joint. You'll be in the neighborhood of 9000 lbs coming down the top chord and driving into the bottom chord. If it is a level seat cut on the bottom of the top chord it will be trying to slide outward with about 7500 lbs of force when the roof is fully loaded.

[Lennyzx11]

 <br

And the first load showed up.
White pine. 26 pieces. First bill is 2317.12 with tax and delivery included. The 2ea 8x12x24ft tie beams were a big chunk of that.
First step. Sill plates of 2x8.

>
 

[thecfarm]

Old Ford tractor way over on the right?

[Lennyzx11]

Old Ford tractor way over on the right?

Yes. It's a 64 Ford 2000 gasoline. 

 

[Lennyzx11]

Day 2 (2NOV22)

Didn't get a lot done today. Some more dirtwork smoothing around the foundation, packing down, and of course picking up Vermont rocks.

I laid the back 2x8s out on the stem wall for the sill to get a picture of how to cut them to have the lapped joints to come under the Posts/Post anchors.


 

Still have to rearrange the shop to be able to work inside with the woodstove when temperatures drop. The ol Blue truck and mowers will have to live out under the lean to during those times.


 

 

Forgive me and let me know if I get too far off topic for you guys. When you work alone (well, it seems in my case), one thing seems to lead to another and I've worked hard most of the day and not one thing got accomplished it appears!
Lenny

[Ljohnsaw]

 :P  Looking great.  Love the truck.  I know what you mean about working alone and nothing seemingly getting done.  Been working on my cabin for far too long!

[Lennyzx11]

Day 3 3NOV22

Worked on the 2x8 Sills across the back stem wall. I laid the half lap joints to fit under the two center posts. I couldn't really find the "perfect" size for the half lap joint so I decided to make them 8" total with each board cut 4". This goes under the Post bases I'm using and 4 screws to secure it and the joint together are hidden under the post(s). The corner got a full 8" half lap at 90 degrees. 
Cut these with the radial arm saw, kerfing out 1/4" or smaller, then smacking out the waste. I tryed cleaning up with a hand plane but it seemed to get clogged easily with the green pine. I don't have much experience with hand planes so could be operator error. I did have it sharp and set correctly according to Youtube gurus.
So I used the 2" Witherby chisel and the Wood is Good mallet for the first time for me to actually do it the traditional way. It went easier than I thought with pushing and shaving the face down to specs. 
Shut down at dark as wife worked late and me and the blue truck was sent to town to pick up pizza. I had forgot how dismal those old 6 volt headlight are in a good dark!



 

 

 

[Old Greenhorn]

 I stayed out of this thread while you, Don, and Jim were talking all that mumbo jumbo that makes my head hurt. :D But now that you are into the build, you have my attention and I bookmarked the thread. I also just re-read the whole thing to come up to speed (in so far as I can) and I think I accidently learned a little more about timber frames.

One trick I use on those half laps done on a RAS is after whacking out the bulk material, I slide the board laterally under the blade to flatten. Set a stop so you don't whack the shoulder. On long planks such as yours, this is probably not do-able, given the weight. In that case, take a couple of pieces of scrap the same thickness and lay the around the roughed out area and run a router around at your final depth. Last option is to use a dado blade set in the RAS to do those laps, it goes a LOT faster when you have a bunch to do.

In re-reading I just noticed where you are, DUH. I have cousins just north of Bennington, in Arlington. I pass through there a couple times a year to either see them, or on to my other cousins in Marlboro and Wilmington. If I had paid better attention early on I might have been able to help you out with those tie beams but transportation would have been an issue. I don't have a trailer that long. I don't expect to be out your way again until maybe spring, but it's just a tad over an hour from me to you.

Anyway, good luck on this nice project. I'll be reading along as you post from here on out. What is your goal before the winter sets in?

[Lennyzx11]

I stayed out of this thread while you, Don, and Jim were talking all that mumbo jumbo that makes my head hurt. :D But now that you are into the build, you have my attention and I bookmarked the thread. I also just re-read the whole thing to come up to speed (in so far as I can) and I think I accidently learned a little more about timber frames.

One trick I use on those half laps done on a RAS is after whacking out the bulk material, I slide the board laterally under the blade to flatten. Set a stop so you don't whack the shoulder. On long planks such as yours, this is probably not do-able, given the weight. In that case, take a couple of pieces of scrap the same thickness and lay the around the roughed out area and run a router around at your final depth. Last option is to use a dado blade set in the RAS to do those laps, it goes a LOT faster when you have a bunch to do.

In re-reading I just noticed where you are, DUH. I have cousins just north of Bennington, in Arlington. I pass through there a couple times a year to either see them, or on to my other cousins in Marlboro and Wilmington. If I had paid better attention early on I might have been able to help you out with those tie beams but transportation would have been an issue. I don't have a trailer that long. I don't expect to be out your way again until maybe spring, but it's just a tad over an hour from me to you.

Anyway, good luck on this nice project. I'll be reading along as you post from here on out. What is your goal before the winter sets in?

Hi! we are near neighbors.
I think I'll try your tip on using scrap wood to set up a router sled to clean up better. I do have a power planer and thought of using it also. The router wil be good to use for housings later also. I like using the RAS but it is a little klutzy on this bigger stuff. I plan on routing the edge of the sills to avoid splintering so it's due to come out anyway.

As far as goals, like everyone else as far as I can. I'd like to get those two tie beams laid out, cut, and up in the air if at all possible. The rest I have plans on sliding them in the walk in door to the wood heated shop with a tarp curtain and work on one end at a time. We will see. I know that raising bents are the best way but with the 4 ft stem wall on the back vs the flush front and picking those bents up with my tractor alone, It may work out better to "stick" build those one piece at a time.

[Don P]

If I have my drawknife handy, most of the time I'll kerf fairly close together and then drop the drawknife in one of the kerfs and twist to lay the slivers over then pull and clean the face. turn around and clean the remainder. But I'll use a slick or chisel or sanding disc on a grinder, or sanding belt stretched over a thin board. If you are sanding you are done cutting. Fine technique is secondary to getting the result needed to keep going. When the grain damns every other approach remember getting the surface needed is the goal. I love watching third world workers, often they don't do anything "right" and if results matter a good many can spank most of us  :D.

I'm hoping I remembered to say those 2x8's should be treated. It also wouldn't hurt to put sill seal between them and the concrete wall.

[thecfarm]

All is looking good.
Does take time working alone.

[Lennyzx11]

7NOV22
Good morning everyone. Nothing got done Saturday. Had to rake leaves and mow for what I hope is the last time for the season.
Sunday I rearranged the shop to be able to do work inside through the winter. 

First Post! Everything went absolutely not a hitch Perfect!
Not....

We're not going to get too much into it, suffice to say that the first diminished haunch mortise didn't go as wanted.

After laying out the tenon on the top per Jim's directions, I cut it out fairly easily with the wormdrive saw.
Then cleaned it up with the drawknife I've had for years as a wall hanger per DonPs recommendation. Nice and easy work. Now I have to sharpen the drawknife razor sharp. Hanging on the wall 20 years after picking it up in a garage sale long ago for wall art didn't do it. Who woulda thought?

I then cut the first mortise with the Makita chain mortiser. 
First unforeseen issue. The mortiser didn't quite go through the 8x8 post for a through mortise.
No problem. with the layout off the Reference face as instructed it was simple to flip the post over and clean the remainder out. And it all lined up! 

Then I screwed up but I think it's saveable. I was trying to figure out how to use power tools to cut the angled portions of the dovetail as I didn't quite trust being able to hold the slope as required by hand chisel. (and yeah kinda lazy) I found that the LinearLink saw (like a Prazi Beam cutter) would cut an angle inside with the table dropped all the way down. 
Luckily, this was near close to Jim's instructions to have 2" of "flare" on the outer end. It cuts at about 1 3/4". Then I hand chiseled to spec.

And then the fight started... 
Somehow I didn't account for that 2" drop into the seated position during layout. Thought I did.
 I cut a template of one of the 2x8 sill offcuts and bandsawed it to shape and played with it for a couple of hours. But nope. no matter how much I keep messing with it, the tie beam will be too low from original plan so all of them will be low to match. 
This sucks. But wait! At two in the morning, I realized that I can cut the tenon off the top and it's shoulders and bring everything in relation to each other as it should be. The post was longer than needed and I hadn't cut it off yet so I get to stretch it at the bottom. Yay me...

So now for today's assignment. I need to sharpen the drawknife, sharpen the chain on the LinearLink, rethink on how to cut those slopes of the dovetail efficiently(lazily),
And redo the top tenon and shoulder to match right. Then I can cut the wedge mortise to size.

All in all, a good day with a learning experience.
Though that post is still probably dizzy from being rolled over and over. And over.

And to all, a good day,
Lenny

Overview of all the "stuff" drug out to work on the first post.
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br>
 




View of the template being squared within the mortise in relation to the post in order to see exactly what needed to be done on the slope to fit correctly.


 


View of the template itself showing the supposed tiebeam's layout. (we're gonna practice on posts a bit more for now..)


 

[Lennyzx11]

12Nov22
Not much accomplished today I'm afraid. Rain for the first half of the day. I spent time sharpening everything during that time and "thinking bout it". 
Then as dark approached, I decided to get something  done. I drilled through the sill plate with a forstner bit and then drilled into the stem wall to set a red head wedge anchor for one of the center wall posts on the back wall.
And of course the **** thing doesn't go in all the way right. I hate these things. With the cutoff grinder, bandsaw, and other assorted stuff, I get the thing out and replaced. Turned into a 2 hour job for one post anchor. 

 

[Lennyzx11]

12NOV22 moved posts into garage before rain started. Got one post done, stood up, and anchored. Got its front mate done with exception of brace pocket. I wanted to read up a bit again on those first. 
Even after being super careful, I managed to cut the dovetail the wrong way in the tie beam joint. Since it's a gable end, and will have center support post(s) spanning the 24', I cut the dovetail out and it's now a full width and through housed mortise and tenon joint. That tie beam will need to be scarfed over a center or offset post also. 


 

 

[Lennyzx11]

19NOV22
Managed to get a couple more posts done the last couple of evenings.


 

Also managed to get to do my first "do over". After cutting a post tenon and mortise for the tie beam, I cut the slope the wrong direction for the half dovetail with wedge I wanted to use.
I decided that though it wasn't "right", I could still use it though the tenon for the top plate would be off and would need custom cut.
So I redrew the lines carefully for the housing on the opposite side from the reference face as instructed.
Then promptly stuck the Saw into one of the original Housing lines that I hadn't marked over or erased during the change.
So now it was definitely a scrap piece. Luckily, the post(s) up on that knee wall are cut short enough I can redo it without sacrificing the whole post.
I know you guys never do boner moves like that.


 

After that move, I decided to put the tools down, throw a couple more pieces of wood in the fire, get a bubbly pop and retire to my "groaning chair" upstairs.
If you don't have one in your shop, it's very highly recommended.
A "groaning chair" is where you go to sit in your shop to contemplate the last screw up you just made.
Mine gets a lot of use so if you get one it should be very very comfortable. As I approach 60, it's also good for a nap or two I admit.


 

[Don P]

That's why I'm not a plumber, my mistakes warm me twice  .
On the road as a young carpenter, well, there's a bum set of stairs in the kudzu behind a bar in the deep south  :D

[Lennyzx11]

With family running in and out for the weekend, i shut down operation and cleaned the shop up. 

 

I did have a question for the gurus though as I get close to completing the posts. 
I will have to make two scarf joints on the back wall it looks like to attain the 40 feet needed.
Where would you put the two scarf joints for strength and aesthetics?
The posts are 12 feet apart. The top plate will be 8x10. 
My first thought is to straddle the two middle posts with the bottom of each scarf over the "outboard" brace of each side. Then lay the other two plate Timbers over the corner
Posts and the scarfs on each end of the center timber. 
Thoughts?


 

[Don P]

I leave joinery in space to those smarter than me. Why approach the strength of an undamaged beam when you can have the full strength of a fully supported one?

Absent engineering, which I have not seen, this is what the building code says;

The ends of beams shall have not less than 1½ inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) of bearing on concrete or masonry for the entire width of the beam. Where multiple-span beams bear on intermediate posts, each ply must have full bearing on the post

Ag is typically exempt from the laws of man but man's law there is with respect to natures laws... which is often the case  .

[Lennyzx11]

 

 

 

 

 

 

30DEC22
Today's warm weather (50ish) got me out to stand one more post and to start moving the first 8x10x 16' into the garage. This will be part one of the top plates going across the "rear" of the carport. 
It took a bit of ingenuity to bring the timber in through my small garage door but nothing terrible. Part of working by yourself.

I did want to make a shout out for the purple lifting strap and 1000lb pump up cart that both came from harbor freight. Both are at least 10 years old and never one issue. 
Good stuff.

[Old Greenhorn]

I wanted to get one of those pump up carts, but shop floor space is always an issue here, so I make do. But I did get a hanful of those purple slings for doing mushroom logs and loved them. My buddy Bill saw them and wanted some, but when I went back 6 months later I could find none. Still looking. Maybe they will have some when they open their new store down in town, just 12 minutes away. I hear 1/10 is their target date to open, but we'll see. All the contractors are working like mad and they were painting the building front yesterday getting ready for the sign.
 Where is your closest one? Troy?

[Lennyzx11]

Yes. Troy is the closest. I have a Rigid radial arm saw. (I know, I know. I'm going to cut my whole head off with it someday) the stand has enough space underneath to park the lift table. So space use isn't too bad. 

[Lennyzx11]

6JAN23
Laid out the top plates for the rear wall in the shop as it's raining.
Mail lady knocked on shop door and said she hated me and carry my own package. 

 

This should help make the bridle joints that Jim mentioned earlier in another thread. 


 

 

[Lennyzx11]

 

15MAY2023
After waiting for the weather to break and catching up on my chores, I returned to working on the carport. 
I finished my half lap bridle joint to go in the center of the rear tie beams and two beams on the open end wall.



 

Jim Rogers sent me my Big Al Deluxe. It's unbelievable how much faster the layout seems to go. I was doing fine with square and measuring tape but this sure makes it quick and consistent.

I didn't seem to get a picture of it. Maybe next time. I did get a picture of my homemade tenon checker.


 

Then another load of mostly brace stock 4x6s and some 4x4s to start cutting braces. I should have done them first but I wanted to see how the frame fit for my first learning cuts (some trimming was involved admittedly). Now to begin braces after rereading Jim's dissertation on Brace layout posted on here periodically. 


 

Things are getting better with my work as I go along. 
 Paying attention and conforming to the tried and true standards that this forum and my books from Sobon and Chappell has made life easier and I'm getting quicker though I've not been in a rush. I hope to have it roofed and near done by Labor Day as my goal. 

My biggest mistake I'm working to correct is the Sawsquatch lines not meeting perfectly when cutting from opposite sides of a cut. I'm doing something not quite right though paying attention to the waste side of the kerf, making sure the saw is 90° vertical, I still manage to get a slight mismatch that shouldn't be there that I have to clean up. 

The bigger side of the tenon(s) where they are 4" deep to cut off the waste opposite the reference face is too deep for the 7 1/4 saw to cut and the 16 1/4 is unwieldy so I'm looking for better ways to do those productively if anyone has hints. 

Mortises with the Makita mortiser are getting easy. I used the technique posted here of cutting down on one side and turning the machine around to cut the other end. (You have to move it anyway)

So.. braces, couple more posts, those two long 24 ft tie beams, and then move up to the principal rafter stages. 
Gettin there....

[Old Greenhorn]

Good to see you are back at it and making progress, not only with the build, but also with your skills. It's looking good. Timber frame is something I am not quite ready to tackle yet. A man's got to know his limitations. :D

 BTW, thanks also for coming to David's service in April, I am sorry I was a bit distracted that day and not exactly myself. I never even thought to ask you how you knew David. I do appreciate you coming to the service, that was a nice surprise.

[Lennyzx11]

 

 27MAY2023

Yesterday was braces day. I cut my first 8. Though all were "ok", I still managed to make some mistake during the layout, measuring, or cutting of everyone. Still more to do and I learn from each one. Practice makes perfect. I did manage to make a couple that will be custom fit into the upper part rather than wasted. 

I managed to make one mistake solely from not paying attention. My center tie beam on the back wall was somewhat taller than the original two. Though I did the math, pre checked the assembly assembled, and took into account the housing depths and offsets correctly, the brace is slightly long and pushes the half lap bridle joint apart. One happened is that tie beams depth being an inch roughly deeper threw the housing critical starting point off. 

What I should have done is listened to Jim Rogers and pulled my measurement from the top reference face and cut that housing from the top 7 1/2" rather than 1/2" from the bottom as I did. 
I'll take it apart and give the brace a haircut to see if it gets "good enough" or recut that housing correctly from the top down. 





All in all a good day. 
My steps for braces are.

Layout pencil lines.
Score lines.
Cut full depth with Super Sawsquatch.
Layout offset and tenon with Big Al.
Cut offset with 7 1/4" saw and kerfs about a 1/4". (This seems faster and more accurate than the flip and drop cutting the end to me).
Cleanup tenon face with 2" chisel. 
Check tenon with homemade checker and clean up back side with chisel as required. 

Each one gets better. Though all are "customized" so far.

Lenny

[Old Greenhorn]

Looking good! Slow and steady is the way to go when trying to learn a lot set of new skills. You're still going a lot faster than I would, for sure. I think you are making good progress, keep pluggin' along!

[Ljohnsaw]

When I designed my cabin, I made 5 different braces for the 118 braces required. Then I made 1/2" plywood templates. Allowed for quick placement on the stock to adjust for knots and other defects.

Yep, work off the reference face!

[Lennyzx11]

6JUN2023



 

This weekend came with some new toys & supplies to try out. 
Over the week, the brown truck and post lady dropped off some heavy packages and I dusted off one I had in a shop corner unopened for over a year. I had never "got to it".

First was a 10 1/2 skilsaw. I already had purchased the 16 1/2" version but I was cruising Amazon on their "deals" and found one that was listed as "used, acceptable" for 140 bucks. I couldn't resist so pulled the trigger. Since it had a 30 day return policy, I thought I'd try it.
Short version, other than a couple of scratches on the housing and handle, this thing looks brand new with the placid still sealed. I bet it got dropped sometime and had to be sold as a blem. Works perfect and blade was new.



 

Then a package of Connext post anchors for the 8x10 posts to figure out. I have been using OZCO anchors from Home Depot but they don't have them in an 8x10 and I wanted as much stability as possible in these two center posts on the front wall as they won't have much to help them when completed.



 

This made me break out the older box setting in the shop corner and assemble it. A Granberg style chainsaw mill. Some assembly required. That turned out to be a bit of a PITA with poor instructions but I managed to get it right after a couple wrong place parts were bolted on for "preassembly" runs.

The reason for this was to cut the knife slot accurately in the bottom of the posts. Put the MS461 in, used the base to draw the line exactly where needed and set the mill and it went quick! A little overkill but man it worked nice.



 

 

 

Then to the other end of the post after figuring proper height(s) by using a laser level since I have a knee wall on the back and a sloping floor for drainage. This could have been done with a water level but I use the laser. No pictures there.

More to come. Got to pickup grandkids. Stay tuned for part 2.

Lenny

[Lennyzx11]

After measuring I started to cut the wedged dovetail needed for the 24' tie beam. I used the chain mortiser for a regular rectangular through mortise and then the Linear Link worm drive saw for the angle of the lower dovetail. The linear link is like a Prazi beam cutter but older and has a manual oil pumper on it for bar oil. 
It is the best way I've found to rough out that wedge angle so far.



 

 

 

Also, this week brought in a new book. "Learn to Timberframe" by Will Beemer. And in it I discovered I have made a mistake on my wedged half dovetails. I'm supposed to have a slope on the top also for the wedge. I had made my back ones straight(level) across the top and the one I'm working on now for the front posts. I thought a square 2x2 was going to be the wedge size. Oh well it's fixable and I now know. 



 

 

Will's book has the best "how to" that I've seen from the 3 books I own to date. It shows each step by photo and explanation. All three have been a valuable resource as I continue working my way along "one stick at a time".

Lenny

[Lennyzx11]

30JUN2023

This week I got one of the 24 ft tie beams prepped and its remaining post. 
I was curious on the weight of that tie beam as it was one of the 2 heaviest pieces going into the build.

So I weighed it. (I've had this scale for a while and it's fun to check things)



 

 

498 pounds. 24 foot 8x12 Eastern White pine dried 10 months under a tarp.

Then this one man show (and two tractors had to get it installed).
Wheeeeee...... (Safety and OSHA inspectors, you may want to turn your head now).

First the knife blade anchor base from CONNEX.



 

Then the "get everything in the air, started, and aligned without smashing delicate bits of me and tractors". 



 



 

Some chain fall action to slide everything in place, pin the anchor base, and couple of structural screws to hold things in place.

Then it was quitting time for the day. Of course I had to "envision it"



 

Lenny

[Lennyzx11]

27JUL23

Good morning everyone.

I managed to get a few more things done since last update between the rain we've been getting lately. 

First was cutting the 2nd tie beam to post wedged half dovetail joint for the front post. then tested on the ground this time along with the knee braces.


 


 

I stood this one legged assembly with the tractor all together rather than the "one stick at a time" approach I used on the first one. Though there was still some off and on the tractor, tightening chainfalls, banging into place, and generally just fiddling, it went a lot easier on this 2nd one.


 

Then off to the local sawmill to order timbers for the principal rafters, queen posts, and other assorted bits that would involve the roof assembly. I had planned on this in order to repair the water damaged wall on the old shop where an exterior staircase had been installed way back when but not ever waterproofed. 
After bring home a load of 1x8 roughcut pine, removing the old sheathing and 2xs that were rotted in the old wall and replacing (no pics there), I installed a new larger window and installed a board and batten siding wall over the sheathing with housewrap to code and flashing.

Cutting battens on the tablesaw.


 


 

Yeah, the shop is a mess. I keep meaning to box the tablesaw in and connect the dust collector to it I recently got but haven't managed to. Someday...

So that's about where I'm at today. A sliding barn door is planned for that board and batten wall in the future and a dutch door for the overhead loft door on the 2nd floor down the road. Working on getting the roof up before winter if possible. I better get after it a bit quicker huh?
Lenny


 

[Old Greenhorn]

Looking good Lenny! I have been through your town 4 times in the past 3 weeks. One of these days....
 Your joints are looking really good, just keep at it and once you get the bents up, things will click along (Says the guy who was going to build a small mill tool shed in a month and barely got it done in 5 months  ;D).

[Lennyzx11]

4SEP23

Well. It's been a year and a month on mine. I've learned a lot, enjoyed myself getting this far. My focus slowly changed from "getting er done" to "let's think on it".

The lower frame is stood up. Holes to drill and pegs to install next and install the wedges on the tying beams.



 

 

 

I got this genie lift on the Marketplace and had some reservations on lifting but I have to say I was very very happy with this purchase. The wheels were junk and losing their coating so I ordered 4 new nice casters and replaced them. 
This thing has been great for my one man show.
The joints are tighter as I've learned more with each stick. 
Next is heading to New Hampshire for pegs, order a couple of Wood owl bits and start pegging this lower frame.
One thing I have learned the hard way.
Everyone on here said to cut and test everything on the ground and I stayed with "one stick at a time".

That ("the one stick at a time") is absolutely the wrong way to do things. I would almost pull it all back apart and put it up the conventional way but the joints have tightened and it'll take some serious force to pull some joints apart. So it'll stay. 

I am going to look into setting the roof structure precut and tested at each bent though.

[Old Greenhorn]

Looking good Lenny! Funny thing about that "let's think on it" mode. I have always found that comes at a po9int after you get the first burst of energy out and you start seeing results, yet also begin to think there might be a better and easier result if you backed up and re-thought it through. That's also when you quality and grade of work can improve a good deal because you are now working and thinking at the same time. Whereas before, you had some excitement clouding your plans.
 I think you are hitting the 'solid stride' part of the build now. This is good. Keep on truckin'!

[Jeff]

If I have my drawknife handy, most of the time I'll kerf fairly close together and then drop the drawknife in one of the kerfs and twist to lay the slivers over then pull and clean the face. turn around and clean the remainder. But I'll use a slick or chisel or sanding disc on a grinder, or sanding belt stretched over a thin board. If you are sanding you are done cutting. Fine technique is secondary to getting the result needed to keep going. When the grain damns every other approach remember getting the surface needed is the goal. I love watching third world workers, often they don't do anything "right" and if results matter a good many can spank most of us  :D.

I'm hoping I remembered to say those 2x8's should be treated. It also wouldn't hurt to put sill seal between them and the concrete wall.

I'd truly love to see a video demo of what you describe Don. ;)

[Lennyzx11]

20SEP23
Woohoo! Managed to get the first part of what I call the 2nd story/roof cut and installed.  
My 2nd load of lumber hasn't been delivered yet which has my gin pole timber. So something not quite OSHA involving two genie lifts, rope, chain fall, and 100+ trips up and down the ladder got done.
It got harder because the genie lifts pickup arms don't extend out as far as the front wheels. Since that wall was there, there was a 18" space that had to be handled that the lifts couldn't roll forward enough.
One lift went through the door, and the other angled on the low end worked. Ropes were used from the building rafters and the new tie plate to keep progress every few inches and reposition leaning lifts.

Thankfully, No Lennys were harmed in the installation of these two Timbers...
That back one will have to wait till the gin pole gets here I believe. They should be delivering tomorrow hopefully. That's okay. I still need to cut the collar tie for between the two rafters as it will have to be installed during the assembly of the back principal at the same time.

[Old Greenhorn]

Progress is being made Lenny! Keep hammering at it. Just don't push it faster that you have the tools. I'd rather be good than lucky. :D I hung a 4x12x20' header in my shop with my crank lift but didn't quite have the height, so I stacked 2x12 cutoffs on the forks to build it up, lifting one end at a time and using ropes to hold the other end in place. It was a wobbly, shaky scary mess, but I got it up alone and did not die.

 I'll be passing through your pretty town again on 10/8 and back again on the 10th. Hopefully the village isn't too choked with tourists. ;D

[Lennyzx11]

 

 

10OCT23
Been working steady on the principal rafters and ridge beams and correcting mistakes made from along the way as I wait for the next load of lumber which will be for the roof support.
Still working that plan on how to safely get all those pieces,(Ridge beam especially) up in the air and set by myself with the gin pole.

Then 1300 square feet of 2x8 T&G for the roof decking to be delivered the latter part of next week. (Woo! That's going to be pricey! Ouch...) but getting this far to cheap out on the roof deck is dumb.
I told my wife that I could do it cheaper with plywood and shingle nails poking through to be seen underneath but let's just say she wasn't thrilled with that idea. (Just kidding).
 The plans call for 2x t&g decking. I suspect for structural integrity since there are no walls. 
It did cross my mind to use 1" t&g and then plywood over that for roof sheathing but that didn't add up to any savings compared. 

Still learning every day.
Drilling a lot of holes and installing pegs, not able to use that fancy Mafell drill stand in the air very well but the drill and wood owl bit makes short work of the holes.

I'm revisiting non existent trigonometry skills with the rafters and support beams. I splurged and got the new construction master pro calculator with trig functions to go with my original calculator I've had for years. This lets me double check before I get to the raising and try to figure out what's wrong up in the air later.
 
Picked up 24" bolts at bolt supply house yesterday for the ridge beam and principal rafter critical joints. 

I've sped up a bit trying to beat the Vermont winter but as a fallback plan I can get the roof deck up and feltpaper the roof if I run out of time on the shingles. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Looking real good and moving along Lenny! I have little doubt you will have at least a covered carport by winter (but maybe not first snow  ;D).
 I'll give you a wave when I drive through town tomorrow. Look for me between 9 and 11am. :D

Keep hammerin' on!

[Lennyzx11]

10Oct23
Load of wood arrived and I built my gin pole based on Jim Roger's version in his gin pole thread. 
24' long 6x8 with a 8x10 base 5 ft long. Moved it into place and raised it by pulling slowly up with tractor.
I had extra length on one back line so I ran it around one tree to set the angle for its pull and then over to the other back line's anchor tree. 
That way I can adjust both in one place when needed.
A 4to1 setup with a redirect block is main tackle. A couple of rope climbers grabs are used to "hold the load" while I tie off the line I'm working with being a guy line or main pull.
Raising the 4x6"x 16' rafters was easy by myself. The principal rafter used as the test subject was a bit more than I wanted alone by human power. But I have equipment ready for that. This was to get a feel and test of the pole and rigging. 



 

 

[Lennyzx11]

 

 

 

 

 
13OCT23

A bit of progress as I try to beat the first snow. Using the gin pole and the Portable winch capstan winch has continued to allow me to do everything to date by myself. 
After standing the gin pole, I was uneasy about it sliding out n the slick concrete slab so I braced it with cutoffs against the rear knee wall.
I also used a come along to hold it from the front when I moved it forward to center for the ridge beam pick.
The thing turns absurdly easy on the concrete by using a 2x4 as a lever. 
A little goes a long way and I had to be gentler than I thought turning the gin pole. 
Center principals are up, center ridge beam is up. Now to decide whether to bring the pole down(which will mean flipping it backwards over center) and moving it to the next bay or go ahead and use it to help get the center set of 4x6 common rafters up and in place. 
Decisions decisions...
It's nice to see progress visibly now up in the air.
Local mill delivered 1300 square feet of 2x8 t&g yesterday. 5600 bucks USD delivered for those that want to compare prices.

[Lennyzx11]

1NOV23
Frame is up! I had written a long note talking about my progress but it seems to have disappeared when I added photos. I'll have to catch that part up later.