belsaw sawmill progress

[b dukes]

Finally making some progress. Here is what I have got done so far. I took a wirebrush on a grinder and went over the complete mill frame and then a new coat of paint. Then added four feet to each side of the mill frame. All I like now is to cut a few pieces of steel for the extensions for braces.





On the drive for the carriage, I totally rebuilt it , I changed the bearings out to a flange type. I had to cut down the cable drum a half inch ( width ) for clearance for the bolt heads of the bearings.  Added bearings for the controll lever that moves the carriage instead of having the holes just drilled in the frame with locking collars. Replaced the belts, idlers and changed the flat bar the idlers mount to from the 3/16 bars that were on it to 1/2 flat stock. Also changed the arbor bearings while i had it apart.



I havent finished the carriage yet. I made all new rollers and now I am waiting on the bearings I ordered for the rear rollers to get here. I figured bearings would be better that the holes drilled to size for the pin that holds it in. I move the mill yesterday to where it will be setup and put it on blocks. I put it together to get the measurements for the footers I will set it on. Hopefully I will be able to get all of this done over the next few weeks since I have some time off.

[b dukes]

I was having such a hard time getting the pics added i thought I would do this in two parts.  Some of what took so long is that i needed a saw shed to put the saw under. i had a old house on the place that had fell over. No damage had been done to the roof, It was 18X25 . We took the dozer and cleaned up around it, the took the tractor with a forklift mast on it and lifted it up and put blocks under it. ,cleaned all the old flooring out so we could back the trailer under it. then we it set down on the trailer and pulled it out of the way. then took the dozer and cleaned up the lot. Then started over in reverse. We took the tractor and raised it up a half block and a time. Moving from side to side. It took longer that I thought it would. But in the end I had a 18x25 for about 144 dollars. After the first rain my girls found all kind of things in the fresh dirt where the house use to be, a handfull of marbles, a nickel from 1943 and two pennys from 1931 and 39. All kinds of broken glass and pieces of plates which was like finding gold to them. I was told the house was built in the early 20's

[Peder McElroy]

Nice job on the Belsaw. I also have a Belsaw m-24 and my feed system is the same as yours (it works great). Nice pics.

[freddycougar]

nice work.. but a lot.. nobody with a sand blaster there?

[b dukes]

I tried a sandblaster that I had but the wirebrush was way faster with the same results, I did use it in some areas that I couldnt get the grinder into. Here are some before pics.

[Dave_]

You're going to have a real eye catcher there 8)  Looking great

[beenthere]

b dukes

I like your progress on the mill.

ps
Do us a favor and modify your post with some "returns" after each img line, so the pics stack (now they spread across additional screen)
Thanks

Maybe it is a screwed up setting on just my computer. ??

[KyTreeFarmer]

b dukes, great pics of your project. I have seen lots of houses moved but never just the roof. Belsaw is looking great, keep us posted.
KTF

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Duke you are going to have one bloody tidy little mill there when you are done she looks like new  Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) What's your plans just to mill for yourself or do abit of milling  ??? as the way you are going about your rebuild you looking like your gonna become a Pro Mate  ;) :D ;D ;D 8)

Have you wire wheeled the saw down yet and if so how did it come up as it only looks like it has surface rust and i reckon there would be very little pitting als what are you doing for sawdust removal are you going to use a chain or blower ??? as that sawdust is gonna pile up quick once you get er fired up   ;) :D ;D 8)

and I take it you are gonna run it off the old massy what size is it ? as i reckon it would have plenty to run the belsaw/timberking  Its a pity they don,t build them anymore they where and would be a good mill for your dollar still I remember when we looked at the new M16 back in about 95 I still think it would have been better to get one of those instead of a bandmill it was going to be cheaper too i think it was going to cost about $10k back then for the M16 with 48" saw with everything needed run it  an 802  Edger kit    ;)  ;D

Im looking forward to seeing you get it running and how you set er up Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris

[b dukes]

No I havent cleaned the blade yet. And it is just surface rust, you can see a change in the blade just by wiping you hand across it. That is a question I havent ask yet. Would a wirebrush damage the blade in any way?  As for the sawdust removal I havent made up my mind yet. I have two blowers I picked up at a place I do work for. They were electric, the man I got them from said the motors were bad, and it cost less for them to buy the complete unit , but I thought I would pull the motor off and put it on two pillow block bearing and drive it off of the arbor. Any suggestion which would be better, chain or blower.  I plan to just saw for myself , and friends. The tractor I have is a 285 Massy it is rated 81 HP at the pto.  I made an adapter to hook the pto to the arbor with a slip clutch,  but when I can locate some pulleys I would like to change it over to a belt drive instead of direct.  I will post some pics of the blowers I picked up tomorrow.

[Dave_]

b dukes, keep in mind that when you go from direct drive to belt drive, you need to make sure that you have enough belts and the right size to transfer enough HP to the saw. 

[bandmiller2]

Good job Duke.You have enough horse power to run your blower,as they pull HP right off the top and a smaller tractor would be wanting.I've cleaned up several old headsaws and used a Scotchbrite pad on a small grinder.Don't think a wire brush would hurt if you leave the bits and shanks in so as not to round the pocket edges.I was wondering how you were doing we haven't heard from you for a wile.Frank C.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

I would not change from the slip clutch drive line unless you go to a diesel power unit later on where you will have to gear it down through the pulleys  ;) With wire wheeling the saw down it won't do any damage to the saw unless you get real mean with it I have wire wheeled heaps of saws over the years without any dramas  ;) you will have to go to about a 4 or 6 to 1 ratio depending on the blower type and size but you will only loose 5 to 10 hp from the tractor when under load which is nothing  Mate  ;) ;D

Regards Chris

[ATLGA]

That project is fantastic. Once its finished you need to have a photo log put together!

[bandmiller2]

Restoring an old circular mill is the most work but the most rewarding, my hats off to anyone that goes that route.Nothing I hate more than seeing an old mill laying fallow with the building falling down around it.Frank C.

[b dukes]

Yeah I have really enjoyed working on this mill so far., when you look at it now compared to what it looked like when I bought it, you can really see how much work you have done. But there is still alot left yet. I am going today to pick up some more parts.  And if you remember Frank I still have that Corley mill.  That will be a real challenge. It was an all wood mill. So I will have to completely redo it. The only thing in my favor is the husk is still all together.  But Just one project at a time. What do you think, should I go back wood or steel when I start. Here is some pics of the blowers I have and the edger I picked up with that Corley mill.



I know nothing about blowers so will these work? or are they big enough I cant find any CFM  rating on them. One is a powermatic and the other is a delta




Anybody have any info on this edger?  Belsaw?

[argyle1]

it sure looks good Dukes----beautiful job

[Dave_]

Go with wood on the Corley.  I'm a big fan of keeping things original.  If you are setting up a commercial operation, that, of course, would be different.  But if you are restoring an old wood set up...keep it wood

[b dukes]

I was thinking about the same thing. The wood has the original look and looks great ( nostalgic), from the ones I have seen the wooden one just stand out so much more that the steel. I have enough steel on hand if i wanted to use it and thats a big plus. But I like the idea of wood. The biggest expense I had on the belsaw was the steel that I bought to lengthen the frame. A 20' piece of 10" channel  X 3/16 was $305.  I looked around at scrap yards for it but nobody had that size, just an odd size I guess.

[bandmiller2]

Duke,theirs nothing wrong with wood,but if a woodie I'd be sure to have a roof over it.As Dave says if your going commercial use steel,for your own use wood is fine.Get your Belsaw up and running then you can cut some of that fine southern hard pine for the Corley.Do you know what those blowers were used for,they look like air movers, mill blowers are built heavy as they take a licken from chunks and bark.Keep us in the loop. Frank C.

[b dukes]

They came from a company that makes furniture, they were off some of there trims saws, like a big chop saw. They had a large dust bag setup on them  about 55 gal. , I took them off where I could fit it all on my truck.

[bandmiller2]

You should be OK with those blowers Duke,as they were designed for sawdust [if the last guy knew what he was doing], Will be an interesting project to setup the old Corley,I'm betting it will be your favorite. Frank C.

[Carpenter]

     Bdukes, That bellsaw is looking nice!  I was just wondering the other day how you're project was going.  Glad to see you're making progress on it!   

[Joe Lallande]

Great job- keep up the good work! Do a search for Joe's pictures or Oliver diesel and you will see my blower hook up. These big blades make a lot of sawdust.

[b dukes]

Here is what we got done over the weekend, just a few more bolts to bolt the extensions on and a few braces. getting closer,  I hope to be sawing soon,  8) 8) : 8)

[Dave_]

Looking fantastic!! 8)

[captain_crunch]

How long is that going to make you overall?? I can saw 20 ft possibly 22 but 20 has to be on carrage just right to clear splitter

[b dukes]

captain_crunch
My overall length will be 38 feet. The first thing I want to change after I get everything running correctly is the carriage., mine has just two headblocks and is ten foot long . I want to stretch it out some. not sure how much at this point :-\   how long is yours?

[captain_crunch]

My carrage has the Belsaw addons and is 12 ft with 3 Knees I will get you a pic of how we added 1/2X3/4 flat stock accross carrage to stifen it and knots dont hang as bad and log slides easier when you move it with setworks

[b dukes]

What do you have to turn you logs against? Just trying to get an idea of what I need to be trying to find. Anything you can think of that I might need will be a great help and any useful mods. you have made..  thanks!

[captain_crunch]

Here is some motivation for you




In second pic you can see reinforcement under log. This is what we call a half moon the shaft rotates so when log balances on them they roll(flip) log back onto carrage

I will dig up some mor pics of it

[b dukes]

How do they lock into to upright position?  I cant see that., but thats just what I need.

[captain_crunch]

Pic in above post shows them rolled up this one shows them down

Thought I had one of cant laying on them If you need more I will try some action photos tomorrow

[captain_crunch]

b dukes
You dont want them to lock they have to roll with cant here is it in action





better pic of added iron to carrage

[Tuner]

I'm 90% sure that edger is an old Belsaw 802.

The Press Roller, feed rollers, and infeed spurs all look right.

The only part that looks odd to me are the pulleys on the right side of the pic.  They are correct in function, but I don't recognize the style.  Small flat belt maybe.

[bandmiller2]

Duke,as far as log turners have you seen the belsaw manual?Their are several things to make the mill handy to work with.One is to be able to walk between the carriage and the log deck without climbing over ramps.That helps you roll the logs on the turners and makes it easier to set the dogs.A log deck the same hight as the carriage is almost a must with a gap either with hinged rail or a short piece of hardwood to roll the log over the gap.Two heavy posts set deep in the ground with triangular flip up turners in line with the deck rails.To load a log, fold down the turners set the hardwood pieces on the top of the posts roll the log on.After you make the cut flip up the turners and let them take the shock as you roll the log towards you.Have the carriage at a handy working hight,make yourself a wood deck to work on,really nice in cold or wet weather. Frank C.

[b dukes]

captain_crunch
I see what you are talking about now.  I was thinking that they locked into place either up or down. And when you would roll the log against it , it just would slide along the on the half moon to help it slide down.. But not knowing much about this I was wrong., I see how it would work better your way! I still have a huge learning curve ahead of me., with lots to learn. What I like so much about this forum is how much people are willing to share advice and help with anything you may have problems with. It is so much easier to ask a question and get an answer that will help you, than to go at it on your own until you finally get it right.  Which could cost you alot of extra money and time.

FrankC
I saw somewhere on a post what you are talking about, but I cant seem to find it., it had some good pics, but it was sometime back.

[captain_crunch]

Just Glad what little I have learned may help someone else ;) ;) Till 2 years ago I only knew a Sawmill is where Log trucks went : : : People here are the BEST at trying to help you than any other source I know of
Brian

[bandmiller2]

Cap Crunch,don't be so modest you have a world class Belsaw setup there with many inovations your input is valued.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Duke,friend and member JSNH has some pictures in his photo album of my operation.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Duke, just remembered Captain stopped by and took some pictures also, their in his album. Frank C.

[Birk-man]

I can saw 20 ft possibly 22 but 20 has to be on carrage just right to clear splitter

I've been trying to understand this - Does the log have to clear the splitter or does it just have to clear the back side of the blade?

Peter

[Dave_]

It just needs to clear the front cutting edge of the saw.  The offcut will obviously fall away once it has finished being cut.  The constraints are the distance from the front edge of the log to the saw leading edge with the carriage in the maximum back position and the distance from the back edge of the log to the saw leading edge with the carriage in the maximum forward position.  This is the true length of cut.  However, for reasons of safety and practicality, the working cut length will be much shorter.

[paul case]

something should be said about safety here.
capabilities to cut a certian length made some trouble for me with the belsaw m-14 i had. as i remember  a 16' log could go on it easily, but when the boards were cut off if there wasnt an extra table to catch and make them fall away from the blade the far end would drop and the near end would bounce up and could get into the blade. the reaction would be the board would be thrown , split ,shattered or flipped up in the air like a missle.
would they cut it? yes very well in fact.
was it safe without some extra set up? no. could get someone hurt.
be careful. we like to read your posts but dont look forward to reading about you in the obit's. pc

[b dukes]

bandmiller2    thanks, looked at the pics and that was the ones I referring too!

captain_crunch    I am in the same shoes you were in, I had helped some on a sawmill years ago but just to throw boards. We cut some large pines down  last year where we dug our pond and my father wanted them cut into lumber.  A friend of mine has an uncle that has a Frick sawmill.  After watching him run it, I knew I had to have one.

[b dukes]

As for me that is the reason I added in the extra length was to be able to load the log at a safe distance from the blade.  not having to be so close. I wanted to be able to cut 16'. For the most part that is the longest I have ever bought at any builders supply and should do for my needs.

[bandmiller2]

The safety comments are good you don't want to be working too close to the saw.A log or cant should always be kept moving when in the saw either cutting or gig back.Usally the real long stuff is timbers or heavier dimention and quite heavy.The easiest way is to put one log on the deck and fit it on the carriage make your cuts and remove it on the deck end.If your planning to do alot of long stuff set your mill up for it. Frank C.

[captain_crunch]

They don't need to much more than clear front edge of saw to be ok but I lots of tine cut like 2 in slabs square on bottom and side wild on top and where I stack resaw stuff on left roll case they have to get past sail to move them accross safely

[paul case]

the little wood block black taped to the last knee in the pic looks like something i would do.pc

[captain_crunch]

Paul
That is a very important stick :D :D At some point in its life someone welded shaft between 2 and3 knees so till I get around to it this is adjustment beings one slot ahead or back is not in lead. Was going to use steel but oak shim seems to be ok just need tougher tape ;D ;D

[bandmiller2]

Cap,spoken like a true sawyer,old mills can't run without shims. Frank C.

[paul case]

i bet when the tape wears out and you make a wrong cut you might say '' shucks, my block fell off'' pc

[b dukes]

Here are some pics of a few things I dug out of a scrap pile for my mill.


30' of 28" roller bed


cast iron sawdust blower and a 12" pulley for the drive

[b dukes]

Since I picked up the roller bed I needed today , my next question is does the roller bed need to set level with the top of the carriage or just a little below?  Anybody got any pics they can post of  theirs.

[captain_crunch]

If you look at my last two pics above you can see my roll case is about 1/2 lower than carrage except first roller which is the same as carrage to help suport board comeing off saw. It also stops a board from accidently getting shoved back into saw beings it is 1/2 in higher and makes a stop

[Joe Lallande]

Your blower is amost the same as mine. The name on the data plate was Garage Blower. To avoid a lot of elbows in my pipe, I had to reverse the rotation of the blower. The blower case unbolts and I reversed the paddle on its shaft. You can also re index the discharge outlet at this point. I resealed the blower case with plumbers caulk. Good luck.

[Eljay]

I bought a Belsaw M-14 back in the early 80's with a metal stand. I ran it from my 1954 Ford tractor but since I only had one tractor it became a nuisance to keep unhooking the PTO when I wanted to skid some more logs. I converted the power source to a 50 HP Volkswagen engine and transmission. I welded the spider gears up on the transmission. I ran the saw from one side of the transmission and drove a hydraulic pump from the other side. The engine speed is controlled by a flyball govenor that is designed for the VW engine. I run the saw at 600 rpm in 3rd gear off the transmission using the PTO drive shaft and over running clutch that came with the mill.
I also converted the drive to hydraulic using a flow controll for carriage speed as well as a spool valve for direction. I eventually used a converted grain conveyor powered by the hydraulic pump for saw dust removal. I haven't been doing much sawing since I finished sawing all of the interior wood for my house. I made all of the flooring, doors and trim from white ash. The ash was air dried for  and kiln dried in a homemade wood fired kiln. I recently rebuilt the engine and converted it from 1200 cc to 1700cc.
B Dukes- Good luck with your project. It sure looks prettier than mine.

[paul case]

i would like to hear or see more about that wood fired kiln.
i tried it and had no luck but i would like to know how you did it. pc

[Brucer]

Blowers are always designed for a specific purpose (I used to design them). Using one that was meant for something else can be a big disappointment.

What you really, really need to watch out for is that you don't run it faster than it was designed for. When you first start it up, make sure no one is standing in line with the casing (in other words, stand at either end of the shaft). If it starts vibrating right away, shut it down.

I had to inspect a site once where someone modified the fan without checking with the manufacturer. When they hit the switch it blew apart like a bomb. Shrapnel everywhere. It was pure luck that no one was standing beside it.

Cast Iron impellers are especially bad in this regard. If it has a nameplate that gives you the speed, don't run it faster. If there's no nameplate, slower is better than faster.

[Eljay]

At the request of PC, I wrote a description of my wood fired kiln. I posted it in the Drying and Processing forum.

Leigh

[gnarles]

b dukes,did you ever get any info on your edger?
I have one that looks like it.model 802 belsaw.

[Solomon]

All you guys are awsome.  I have never seen a circle mill in operation but I woild love to.
  I know that restoration is whole lot of work.   Fantastic job.  Most people dont have it in them to do what you're doing.

[jeep534]

very interesting stuff
bump

[jeep534]

very good stuff here
archie