I want to log (small scale)!

[Dieselsteve]

Hi everyone I currently work for a tree service and have cut firewood most of my life. I would like to get into logging on a small scale not a huge operation but something to get me in the woods and away from these big houses and people with even bigger heads. What my question is I guess is it feasible, and is there any money in it? I live in Michigan and I know that in logging to make a million you first have to have 2 million but I love the woods, cutting wood, and hate the city so I need to do something.

[thecfarm]

A good question. Most land owners wants the money fast,don't want to wait. What will you have for equipment? My Father and me did it here on what is my land now. We got all the money so that was the easy part. The hard part was getting rid of the pulp. The paper mill was fine for a while,but they got tired of our pulp starting to turn grey,that was white pine. We got about 2 loads a month of logs, and did not get alot of pulp. It's fine that a woodlot of thiers was cut in July and the pine sat there until Oct.  :

[Dieselsteve]

wont have much for equipment to start, A loader tractor with forks and a log chain, 1 ton dually flatbed gooseneck converted to log trailer to start, sounds like I should stick to firewood until I can afford a semi and log trailer loader and skidder.  :-\

[shortlogger]

A big thing to look at besides equipment is the available timber and markets for selling it . I have made a lot of good money doing small scale logging , at times making twice as much in the woods as I made at my "real " job but I work nights and log all day and sleep sometimes . But the logging isn't always consistant so I always fall back on my other job when needed .
   The logging for me is a great way to make extra cash

[thecfarm]

We only had a 40 hp,4 wheel drive with a 3pt winch. Just a chain for the logs will be some slow. My Father and me use to do my firewood with just a chain.There was 2 of us,he would drive and I would be the chain man. Just real sloooow. Hard to get more than one log at a time. We would have someone else do the trucking. Just another expense. And if you're trucking who is cutting and making money?

[Woodboogah]

I went from residential tree work to conventional logging.  The money is not even comparable.  However, I am a lot happier every morning to leave to go to the landing.  I still pick up tree work here and there from passed customers but  I dont advertise for it anymore.  I bought a used skidder and I have someone else truck the wood.  Good luck!

[Autocar]

Ive logged small scale most of my life but alot depends on good timber or average, where I live we have big hardwood logs that bring pretty good money. But I see where your in Michigan depending on where you live I believe you can cut some of the best logs in the country and other places some of the worse logs. I use to cut alot of hard maple years ago in Michigan and at that time it was like gold. But know matter what get one foot wet at a time and before you know it your have all the toys that we do  :D.

[luvmexfood]

Very small scale logging is what I am doing now. Lost job but luckily we have several acres of timber some of which has not been cut in 40 years. Logs cost me nothing, have tractors and saws. I only go in and cut what is damaging or needs to go. Only have a F 150 with V8 motor and trailer to haul with. Some days I do good. Somedays I wonder what I am doing this far. Am I getting rich. NO. Am I keeping the bills paid, a little money in my pocket. Yes. Is the work hard. Absolutely. Do I come in each evening with the stress when I had a regular job. NO. Do I come in each evening physically exhausted YES. Do I come in each evening stressed and waiting for work to call because of some problem. NO.

If I want to take a few days off do I get paid. NO. It's what you make out of life. Once read you will never get rich working for someone else. All you get is what they want you to have.

That is quite true.

[slack ma girdle]

You wont get much smaller scale than me, and i make a reasonable living. I specialise in working in woods that are too small for most comercial outfits. So long as i can get a minimum of 20 cube (between 15-19 tons depending on species, and i have no idea how that converts to cords), then it is worth taking it on.

[Dieselsteve]

Thanks guys, I would love to do this but I don't know much about the business end how to get paid mainly and really how to get the area to cut the wood. I can do the work and learn as I go but I need to know some basics on who to contact to sell the wood and who to contact to find land to cut.

[Autocar]

Iam not sure how they do things in your area but you may try contacting a big mill in your area and find out if there contacted by persons with small acreage that there bigger producers won't do and see if they would give you a chance for small jobs. You may get your foot in the door that way. Just make sure you talk with them in person and not by a phone call, good luck.

[CCC4]

Why not jump on with a logging crew as a faller or equipment operator depending on where your located.

[Dieselsteve]

I would do that for a while but where I am right now there aren't any hiring and the ones that are hiring are 300+ miles away. I would love to join a crew to learn more of the trade before I jumped in.

[thecfarm]

slack ma girdle,welcome to the forum. Looks like you have a tractor? I have that 3pt winch on my tractor. Man that is the only way to do it. One man can work by himself and get something done.

[slack ma girdle]

slack ma girdle,welcome to the forum. Looks like you have a tractor? I have that 3pt winch on my tractor. Man that is the only way to do it. One man can work by himself and get something done.

The tractor in my avitar is a Nuffield 10/60 which either powers the winch with no name or a home made skidding A frame, which keeps me busy. I have now gone posh with a Zetor 4WD and forwarder.
Bring on the trees.

[sherpa]

Where in Michigan are you located?  I'm in Northeast Michigan and small scale log part time because I love the woods work and my real job as a firefighter is where my paycheck comes from as well as the benefits.  I do make good money logging and get most of my work by referrals from happy customers that I have done work for in the past.  I also saw, dry and mill most of what I cut into a finished product which also cuts out the middleman and the profits stay in my pocket.

The woods can be hit and miss here in Michigan for a small operator.  I started in the cedar swamps doing small acreage that the big guys wouldn't take.  My normal logging project is less than 10 acres at a time and selective to what I can get rid of at that time of year.  Cedar is the easiest with pine being the next in my area.  Hardwood logs is tough to get rid of for a decent price in a small scale but the firewood I have never had problems getting rid of.

Hope this helps.

[Dieselsteve]

Thanks, I live on the genesee Tuscola county border, there isn't much for logging down here but I have plans to move in the near future farther north. Ive always loved being in the woods cutting firewood its like home to me so why not make some money doing it. your advice helps I just need to get out and do it. thanks again to everyone the advice has helped me greatly.

[Banjo picker]

, sounds like I should stick to firewood until I can afford a semi and log trailer loader and skidder.  :-\

I would see if there was some one that would pull my trailer and let them own and deal with the DOT and their semi.  Banjo

[slack ma girdle]

Ere you go now that i have worked out how to upload photos:

 
I made it myself. The A frame came from a broken piece of machinery, and the the other bits from the scrap pile. It has now made me enough money to buy a 3 ton winch, but it is still used regularly.

[Dieselsteve]

slack ma girdle I like that setup its pretty cool! and banjo picker I have a log farm plate which in Michigan covers logging and farming if my memory serves, I don't have to deal with dot  ;D

[ayerwood]

Dieselsteve,  I have been logging small scale for a few years now.  And I started with basically what you have.  I have a 55hp tractor, forks, fel, and a farmi winch.  And that is all I still have and use every week.  If I push at a good rate, I can easily, by myself, get 2 sawlog loads(6-8mbf) a week.  Although I started with just a chain, after some log sales, I bought the winch.  It is just easier to drag a log from places where getting into would be difficult or time consuming.  Yes, it would takes lotsa $$$ to log at a larger scale, but we are talking "small scale".  Another advantage is that less damage can be done and a cleaner property site is left for the landowner.  A happy landowner is your best advertisement for leads and expansion.  Also, my self-loader guy is a huge advantage for me.  He does all my loading and transport.  Why pay for the large skidder and a log truck and have not only the initial costs, but running costs and repair costs?  Not to mention time.  Those aren't cheap on the big toys and those pieces of equipment are not necessary for a small operation.  In my opinion, do just that...small scale.  I want all those pieces of equipment as well and thought I needed them immediately.  That was not the case and I make a comfortable living with what I have.  All you need for equipment you already own.  Except maybe a trailer to transport tractor/winch to the work site.  If business is good and you are enjoying what you do, those big toys will always be available for you down the road.  They are all on my list. ;D

All in all, you have lots of research to do as far as getting customers, the permitting for those customers' properties, mill prices and contracts, travel costs, daily operation costs, etc.  The planning is complex but will be valuable to you for your future in the biz. I love doing what I do and wish I had started sooner.  You will enjoy it too.  Good luck to you!

[Corley5]

Michigan's Log Farm Plate doesn't give you a pass with the DOT.

[Dieselsteve]

No you will still get fines, just like everyone else but I think you don't have to have dot numbers if you have a log farm plate

[Corley5]

No DOT numbers if you're 26,000 lbs or less.  That applies to everyone in state.  Cross state lines and you'd better have them.

[Kemper]

No you will still get fines, just like everyone else but I think you don't have to have dot numbers if you have a log farm plate

Why don't you want the DOT #s? They are free and takes less than 5 minuets to get them. I would guess the DOT would be less likely to bother you if they see you actually had the numbers?