cold weather starting Caterpillar 51 horse diesel

tempforce · November 26, 2012, 07:48:20 PM

have you thought of using a fog of propane, it would be a bit less damaging to the rings and pistons.. you could mount a camp stove cylinder and use a push button valve and a hose to spray it into the intake. right from the driver seat..

Dave Shepard · November 26, 2012, 07:53:48 PM

Most of our IH tractors have built in ether cans. Ether isn't so bad if you don't over do it. We have two IH 656 tractors with over 20,000 hours on them that have sucked up hundreds of cans of ether. I've heard a lot of people say that an engine can become addicted to ether. I think it is more that the person using ether is not performing proper maintenance. Why service it if you can just give it a squirt. True, if it is on it's last legs, and compression is way down, ether may be the only way, regardless of battery health and fuel filters, etc.

My 51 HP Perkapiller got much better with a few hundred hours on it, but it doesn't show any signs of starting like a Kubota or Cummins.

I've seen propane assist on some engines. I once used an unlit 500k btu brush burning torch to start a diesel. Maybe I shouldn't talk about that one. :D

Solomon · November 26, 2012, 08:01:34 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 26, 2012, 07:53:48 PM
Most of our IH tractors have built in ether cans. Ether isn't so bad if you don't over do it. We have two IH 656 tractors with over 20,000 hours on them that have sucked up hundreds of cans of ether. I've heard a lot of people say that an engine can become addicted to ether. I think it is more that the person using ether is not performing proper maintenance. Why service it if you can just give it a squirt. True, if it is on it's last legs, and compression is way down, ether may be the only way, regardless of battery health and fuel filters, etc.

My 51 HP Perkapiller got much better with a few hundred hours on it, but it doesn't show any signs of starting like a Kubota or Cummins.

I've seen propane assist on some engines. I once used an unlit 500k btu brush burning torch to start a diesel. Maybe I shouldn't talk about that one. :D

I have that same perkapillar, never had a problem starting it. Had my mill 5 years but the hours are very low, less than 300 for sure. Do they get tempramental when they get some wear on them??? I live on the coast of Virginia and we only get maybe two or three very cold nights every two or three years. I do use a good fuel treatment.

bandmiller2 · November 26, 2012, 08:50:19 PM

Ether almost did me in years ago.I worked alone in a truck fleet garage third shift.We had all Detroits and used the Chevron jelly bird eggs filled with ether.We all kept a handfull in our coat pockets.Had a breakdown on the Ma. pike about 2:30 am my coat got wet with snow desolving the gelitin,almost fell asleep on the way back had to hang my head out the window.Seems once a diesel gets strung out on ether you have to use it.The pure grade of medical ether becomes dangerous when it gets old,not as bad as nitro,but unstable and subject to shock. Frank C.

Dave Shepard · November 26, 2012, 09:00:37 PM

I'm just over 660 hours on mine, and It has been running well so far. Did have an issue at about 30 hours that Cat wouldn't fix. WM paid for it out of pocket. We're getting low 20's at night and high 30's during the day. I can start the mill at these temps, but it fights a bit.

Okrafarmer · November 26, 2012, 09:25:16 PM

Just a little correction to my earlier statement about the ether can with the Allis Chalmers 8050. I said the ether can was mounted in the cab, but actually I think it was mounted somewhere in the engine compartment. It was a factory installment, I'm pretty sure, and the button was right there in the cab.

All the Waterloo and Mannheim John Deere's I ever drove, started right up in cold weather, down to -20 F, with no ether and no fuss. They always make that classic "Boowa,boowa, BWUFF! bwuff-bwuff, prrrrrrrrrrrrr" sound when starting. The JD 350B dozer, though, is a little more cold-blooded.

valley · November 26, 2012, 10:54:23 PM

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 24, 2012, 10:27:12 PM
Quote from: valley on November 24, 2012, 10:17:41 PM
It doesn't get that cold here but I have several diesel engines and anything below freezing will make some of theme hard to start I simply use a dipstick heater in the ones that don't have a built in block heater :::: problem solved on mine anyway

Valley, I'd actually never heard of a dipstick heater-- you learn something new every day. That sounds like a real spankin' good idea-- imagine if the old indians had just come up with that idea, way back when!

25.00 on eBay just google them there are several different kinds , they work great

drobertson · November 27, 2012, 06:45:26 PM

I have the 04'-05 Cat 51 hp on my 40. It can be slow to start,(4-6 hits on the key) I run the glow plugs as recommended, and after the third hit I engaged the autoclutch,(which activates the full throttle) and a few more hits does the trick. This is on temps well under freezing. A fully charged battery is critical. And it should be noted that while in the field and being portable, unless one takes a generator to run a block heater or other heating device patience goes without saying. I have never had to walk off and waited for warmer temps, warm oil goes without saying, equal to a rapid cranking rpm. david, As a side note, my 97 case 585-
D, came equiped with the ether can as well.

GeorgeK · November 27, 2012, 11:11:43 PM

Thank you all. Checking all suggestions an working on it. Hope to do more on Thursday as I am off to look at an edger in the morning.
Thanks, George

tempforce · January 12, 2013, 09:13:10 PM

i mentioned propane earlier, but using a portable yard sprayer with kerosene in it, would help start the engine. replace the tip with a fog nozzle, then a short fog/squirt during cranking and it should fire up... and lots safer and easier on the engine...

GeorgeK · January 15, 2013, 12:33:45 AM

Thanks everyone. Just changed the glow plugs we shall see what happens on the next cold day. Also change all the filters.

CalebL · January 15, 2013, 10:11:19 AM

Quote from: tempforce on November 26, 2012, 07:48:20 PM
have you thought of using a fog of propane, it would be a bit less damaging to the rings and pistons.. you could mount a camp stove cylinder and use a push button valve and a hose to spray it into the intake. right from the driver seat..

Propane can be dangerous because it's heavier than air, meaning it falls to the ground. If you are using it in an area that isn't ventilated well or in a low laying area on a calm day, it will pool in low laying areas and could be an explosion problem before it dissipates.

tempforce · January 19, 2013, 10:06:38 PM

if your using that much propane. you have more problems than a hard starting engine...
my mazda built perkins in my 83 ford ranger needs plugged in at least 3-4 hrs before starting if the temps are near +10 any lower and it requires the water jacket heater to be left on all night. this is with a good glow plug and intake heater system. i usually give the fuel a gallon or two of kerosine when it gets that cold. have used a half gallon of gas per 20 gallons of diesel. but only tried it once, due to the fuel being jelled and needed to use the vehicle...
where i used to live, winter diesel wasn't available...

GeorgeK · January 22, 2013, 08:27:00 PM

4 new glow plugs. Mill fired right up this morning and it was 9 degrees F out!

drobertson · January 22, 2013, 08:32:14 PM

george, how was the fix? maybe I should replace mine,

GeorgeK · February 02, 2013, 08:29:48 PM

at 8 degrees it fired and quit like 3 times then kept running. I would test the plugs see if good. WM replaced all mine I have not tested the ones that came out.