bandsaw vs chainsaw vs circularsaw

[felineman]

OK...... I need an honest discussion on the best type of machine for squaring lumber IE..... Spruce, Pine and Oak. I don't have a lot of money but need to cut enough logs to build a cabin WITHOUT changing/sharpening blades 50 times a day. I will obviously have a chainsaw or a couple to fell the trees and limb them as well as cut to length, but don't want to have to use a chainsaw lumber mill to square all my timber. A Bandsaw mill seems like a good idea until you have to sharpen the blade all the time and I hear they can be rather expensive to buy the blades. I've seen circularsaw mills and hear you don't have to sharpen the blades as much, as well as producing dimensional lumber quick and easy.
I would build my own having machinists experience or buy something I could repair or modify. It would have to be capable of making 12 x 12 square timber as well as 2 x 4 and 1 inch planks. Also looking into a thickness planer (gas powered). I am moving to an area where there is NO power for hundreds of KM and everything needs to be gas powered. Any solution to this problem needs to be mobile at least to the point that its needs to be moved to my property along a 200 KM dirt logging road 8 feet wide, so wheels or fit on a trailer is a must. Currently working on the drawings and this is what I will be building https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=82011.msg1257101#msg1257101 Still a work in progress but I'm slowly working out the best use for the space I have. I will have a tractor avail with a PTO if that helps with bandsaw or circularsaw mill. Please don't answer if you have not used either one of these cutting methods.

[beenthere]

You are ambitious, I will say that.

Here is a good circular saw book that should help you with the basics of sawing logs into dimension, or into timbers.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

[felineman]

Sorry meant to say Swingblade mill prefer something with two blades but also has to be able to do 12 inch wide cuts for planking.

[schmism]

my vote,  manual band mill.   Strip the bark by hand with a draw knife before hand will extend band life considerbly.   

wood mizer also sells the MP100 log molder/planer which is basically built to do what your wanting to do.    its pricy but its the turn key solution for making Lincoln logs.
http://woodmizer.com/us/PortableEquipment/MoldersPlaners/MP100LogMolderPlaner



Might consider a PTO generator for the tractor.   a 12Kw can be had for cheep and will provide enough power for the molder or some other planner or shop equipment.


As to your log house design.   Id square it up and extend the front gable end for the porch.   easy to build perfect squares, and why loose the interior space.

[Gideon_70]

I think if it were me, I would get a bandsaw mill, and spend a couple hundred on blades.  They are about 19-20 each, and if you keep the dirt out and shave an inch off of the end of the log after it's on the mill, you should get dozens of logs squared before you need to swap blades.  I know I get about five or six logs out of each blade before it starts to dull on me a little, but I'm literally shaving half inch boards for roofing.  If all you need to do is do four cuts to square, and a few slabs to get to the right size, then you'll go a long way.  My mill is a Harbor Freight, and after carefully adjusting it, it cuts pretty good for my 1,900.00 investment.

[Ianab]

Well I run a swingblade mill, so that's what I would do the job with, and it would get it done, with a bit of cunning and ingenuity.

BUT, if you are planning to build your own mill, I'd suggest the band mill. Reason is they are pretty simple to fabricate, and set up. You can probably find a used one for a sensible price, a bit of basic maintenance, and you are in business.  Chances that you can find a cheap used swing blade is pretty remote.

Yes the blade running cost is generally higher, but for the cost of one new swing blade, you get several boxes of bands. plenty enough to cut out a cabin, before you need to send them out and get the resharpened. You also need a diamond wheel sharpener to touch up the carbide tips, which is another expense.

Normally I'm a big advocate of the swing blades, but from what  you have written, I'd point you at a band saw this time.

[longtime lurker]

Well I run a swingblade mill, so that's what I would do the job with, and it would get it done, with a bit of cunning and ingenuity.

BUT, if you are planning to build your own mill, I'd suggest the band mill. Reason is they are pretty simple to fabricate, and set up. You can probably find a used one for a sensible price, a bit of basic maintenance, and you are in business.  Chances that you can find a cheap used swing blade is pretty remote.

Yes the blade running cost is generally higher, but for the cost of one new swing blade, you get several boxes of bands. plenty enough to cut out a cabin, before you need to send them out and get the resharpened. You also need a diamond wheel sharpener to touch up the carbide tips, which is another expense.

Normally I'm a big advocate of the swing blades, but from what  you have written, I'd point you at a band saw this time.

What Ian Said!!!

But honestly sometimes it's better not to reinvent the wheel. If you must build your own mill then a band would be the way to go.
Otherwise I'd be recommending two options:

1. Use 10 x 10's or 8x 8's in place of the 12x12's. Theres only one production swingmill that i know of that can cut a no fuss 12 x 12 and thats the big Turbosaw. (And I'd really recommend that you try and handle a 12 x 12 with any length in it before you commit to that size anyway. Just about all the swingmill manufacturers can handle a 10 x 10 with their larger models though.

2. Look for a second hand 3030 Duncan Beam Saw. There's not a lot of them out there but the odd one comes up for sale, usually in BC or Alberta.  Hire a big diesel for the week it'd take to saw your timber. Then,when you're done with it sandblast it, paint it, crate it and send it to me. I want one of those!!!

Seriously I do a lot of 12 x 12 structural timbers. You really do need to handle one if you havent before, with the kind of equipment you envisage having on site to construct a house with. I love the things but were I building in a remote location with limited equipment I'd probably run a double course of 8x8's instead, just based on ease of manufacture.

[felineman]

TY guys, sounds like you have plenty of experience with your machines. I honestly thought bandsaw blades were more expensive then that. I have seen prices here in the hundreds for a single blade, 4 degree blades I heard were the best. Troopy on youtube built his own swingblade and there are many examples or homemade swing,band and chainsaw mills. OK bandsaw I guess it is, I have a 2 cyc Onan engine rated at 22.9 HP should be more then enough power to handle a bandsaw mill even has a compression gauge on it. 1964 Penington triple blade mower sitting on front yard lots of steel and parts so next question "30 foot cut lengths" and tracks. to make it a trailer or as a setup on site machine? Don't really care for having to lift logs with tractor. I thought about a porch extension but I want the shelter for winter I can stack wood for fire on edge of deck and keep snow away from my door. When you think about it 25 x 30 isn't much smaller then some houses minus the garage that a family of 4 live in. 12 x 12 logs isn't much to move with a tractor with a forklift but I calculate the log after cut 47% wet weighs about 1700 LBS for a 30 foot log? seems light maybe I messed up my math? Anyone Spruce green 47%? Will probably be built from pine but spruce is heavier so I'm working with MAX so I know I can do it with lighter materials. Every figure I have added at least 1/4 or doubled so I don't run out of anything, Nearest town is just too far away to go running for nails. Forklift can lift 2 ton easy, lifting my 2002 ford ranger extended cab when I do the brakes. WARNING don't try this at home, place old rimless tire between door and fork boom. And next question, how wide a rig do I need? I'm only cutting 12" BUT I also don't want it to be over tall and have no side strength, I see everyone with mills 8 feet wide approx. I know pulleys or wheels take up a lot of room. And that raises another questions pulley or wheels? I have access to some old pulleys 24" and lipped on one side only would hold a bandsaw blade easy or would motor cycle tires be better? No end to the possible materials choices but I'll ask the people that use the equipment first. OK turning into a long post so I'll wait for those answers then decide where to go from there.

[boscojmb]

I take it that you want to get the mill done quickly so that you can build your cabin.

To cut 30' logs in quantity, you need 30' plus 2' of "wiggle room" at either end, so 34' plus 4' or so that the saw head will take up, if you add a 4' trailer tounge now you are at 42'. Building a 42' trailer is an undertaking in itself.
I would keep it stationary, at least for now.

Mill width and bandwheels.
I would use 19" pulleys with B series belts.
158" is probably the most common band blade length. Assuming that you are not trying to re invent the wheel with your mill build, let the pulley size and blade length determine your width.
There are lots of other pulley and blade sizes, but 19" wheels and 158" blade is a popular, proven combination, and probably the easiest / cheapest to buy blades for.

47% Moisture sounds Really wet. You may want to recheck that.

I hope this helps.

[Ianab]

Agree that a stationary mill is going to be a lot simpler to construct. It's got to be a pretty sturdy trailer to support the mill rails with a big log on it, as you have less support points, and you have to be able to set up on less than perfect ground. With a stationary mill you can have more supports, prepare the site properly etc, so the structure need not be as heavy.

A log arch would be the way to move logs to the mill. Built to suit the size log you plan on moving. Then even a small tractor can move a large log, without dragging it through the mud (which also helps your band life if you keep the log cleaner.)

As for the moisture content, can be ~30 to ~60% depending on the species. That's the green moisture content, which is what he's going to be dealing with. (Not sure what species)

[felineman]

Probably spruce or pine all depends on what there is more of and whats straightest. OK so its stationary 19 inch wheels and whatever blade buddy said above, I've heard a 4 degree blade is best for cutting with what do you guys think?

[Joe Hillmann]

I built my own mill using trailer tires.  It works but since I built mine I discovered surplus center.  You can get 18.75" pulleys from them for $45 each.  http://www.surpluscenter.com/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/?page_no=1&fq=ATR_Grooves:1&fq=ATR_PulleyOutsideDiameter:18.75

If I was to make mine again I would go that route.  I had priced it out and through surplus center you could have all the mechanical parts other than the engine and clutch for about $240 and that included acme threaded rod and bronze nuts for the head lift.  If you didn't buy them it would be about $160.

The trailer tires on mine work but I can't get the blade as tight as I want.  At a point the tires just start to deform around the blade and it takes way too much power to spin the blade then.

I can tell suggest too much on blade angle but I think the 4 degree are for harder woods and the 10 degree are for softer woods.

Also since you will be away from civilization you may want to look into making or buying a sharpener.(would require a generator to use it out there).

[Joe Hillmann]

Do you have an idea of how many logs you will need to cut?

[felineman]

approx 32-30' exterior walls and then 2x4's for interior and roofing,rafters and joists I figure about 100 trees max. Not a problem finding trees, rough estimate about 15-20 thousand board feet to a max of 30,000.

[bandmiller2]

Catman, from what I can gather your on the edge of civilization as we know it. I built a bandmill that has served me proper for many years, if built and designed well they will do the deed. If your in a hurry something like a WM LT-15 on a long home built track will cut your home. If you like it and theirs a demand from others you have the start of a business. If not you can usually sell for a little less than what you paid for the mill. Frank C.

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

I would like to see some pictures of the build and the cabin if you a chance to post them as you go....Brian

[felineman]

This won't happen till next year for the cabin the mill may come sooner depending on if I go chainsaw bandsaw or swingblade. or maybe all 3, only time will tell.

[mad murdock]

If you want to go cheap, a CSM (Granberg Alsakan Mk III), with a powerhead of at least 70-90cc.  You would need at least a 24 in bar, but I would go with 28, as you loose a few inches when you put the mill on the saw.  This would give you about a 24" maximum cut.  A band mill will cut faster, but will take more time to build.  If you are only going to mill for the house, and things are as remote as you say, a CSM will be a benefit, as you don't  need as much log handling equipment (fortlift or tractor), unless you already have them.  Though granted you will need a machine of some type to move a 30' long timber or log that is 12" in dia.  Turbosaw makes a weekend warrior mill that is a swingblade mill powered by a large chainsaw powerhead.  That is highly portable, and would work well in a remote situation.  Not sure on the length of log with it.  Update your profile, this will help to those offering advice, as to what may or may not work well for your situation.  Logosol also makes a log house moulder that runs off a chainsaw powerhead, or electric, if you have a generator (would need to be a big generator).  You can also mill with a Logosol M8 with extensions up to any lenth you want. Would cost as much as a good band mill, though would be more portable.  If time is of the essence, and depending on how remote you are, yo ucan order component pieces from Linn Lumber and fab as much or as little as you want, depending on your situation.  Sounds like an adventure is about to start at any rate.  Hope it goes well for you.  I will stay tuned for pics.

[Logger003]

I personally like a circle mill. But what your wanting to do I would go with a band mill for this project. That's just my opinion and I find most times it don't mean much.