Hey Guys, i posted a while back and mentioned that when lowering the blade on my 230 it will not lift the front end. Its 1965 230 with censna hydraulics and side controls to the right side of the operator. I can raise the blade with speed but lowering is beyond slow, so i think the hydraulic controls for lowering the blade have an issue. Does anyone have any ideas or advice? I know that even if it is operating 100% it still may not be able to lift the front end up with down pressure but at this point I have to literally sit there and wait for the blade to lower.....crazy slow, like watching paint dry!!
Thanks again
Moose
Getting full range of movement thru the linkage or lever to the spool?
Put a pressure gauge in the input line of the control valve and then in the lines who who run to the blade and activate the valve. If there is a big difference you know the problem is in the control valve.
Yes I'm getting full range when pushing and pulling the hydraulic joystick. Hydraulics to articulate are good an strong, no issues at all. Hydraulics to the winch brake and clutch side are good and stong. It seems to be just the down pressure to the blade rams. I'll have to pressure test the blade controls. Just looking for some possibilities of what it could be inside the controls causing it. Dirt? Or some worn out valve? I have never had it apart, is it a complicated job?
Could be also a bad seal in one of the rams and plugging up the return port. If you can put quick coupler on the the blade cylinders and run it of a tractor you should be able to tell if the problem is in one of the cylinders or in the oil supply.
Just be ready for a big mess when you're puling the rams. ;D
Mooseknuckle what you could do if you suspect it's a valve problem is switch the blade hoses with the steering hoses on your valve and try it. If you still have the issue then the valve is not likely your problem. You may have a collapsed hose on the down pressure side of the blade or as someone else said a blockage. The blade should go up and down at the same speed.
Thanks guys. The lines are all brand new but I'll trace them back and make sure one isn't kinked somewhere. Other than that I'll try the switching of hoses with the steering valve. I'm gonna blow the lines out as well just in case there is something plugging them. Thanks again for the help!!
Moose
Got it all figured out ?
Just thinking it could be interesting for other members, how problems actually get fixed. :)
Mooseknuckle
Have you solved the problem yet?
If you have tried bushmechanic;s method of checking the valve and it is OK then the problem is in one of your blade cylinders.
I rather suspect something is floating around inside restricting the flow of oil out of one of the cylinders.
Cap off one set of blade cylinder hoses and try lowering the blade repeat with the other cylinder. If one cylinder is slow then you have found the guilty culprit if both are still slow than you have a restriction in the return side from the rod end.
Hope this helps
Al
Hey guys havent got back in to work on it yet. As you can tell its not paying the bills!!!! Definitley gonna sort it out soon and post the results for board members!!
Moose
Well it looks like the valve isn't traveling back into the valve body when i press down on the handle. It still has about 1/4" of room to go back compared to the steering valve stick. I'm gonna have to bring in a pail and drain my hydraulic tank in the cab, and disconnect the return line to the tank so that i can get a socket or wrench on the back side on the valve body. I suspect there is some dirt blocking the piston from travelling all the way back, preventing the fluid to drive the blade back down.
Well just an update, i pulled the valve body the other day as the ram spool would not travel back into the valve body at all!! :o
I took it all apart and noted that some of the o rings were shot and tye bushing at tye end if the spool was cruddy and there are some hard deposits on the spool shaft where it should slide back through the bushing. Ive got everything cleaned, just gonna work it a bit with emery cloth, replace all o rings and sput it back togethet. Attached are some pictures. Let me know if you guys see anything alarming!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~126.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~125.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~127.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~128.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~130.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~129.jpg)
Doing good.
I always think it's worth to clean it and change o-rings. If that 's not the real problem, you at least don't have a lot of money in it.
Yup just some elbow gease and about 60 bucks with shipping for the o ring kit. 8)
I figured I would see a large blob of dirt in the end of the spool that would cause it not to depress in but now when i really think about it, if that o ring in front of the bushing which is right in front of the spring of the spool..... If that was letting fluid into that spring area then maybe it was similar to a fluid lock which would not let the spool travel back into the valve body? They call for o ring replacements and a small amount of greese in that rear cap nut, just enough to lube the spring. Any thought on that?? I suppose if too much greese was in the back that could cause the problem as well. That cap nut was on really tight as well.... A lot tighter than the cap nut on the steering ram valve body! :snowball: there was a lot more greese in blade valve body as well.
Took it all apart, blade and steering bushings were cruded up pretty good. I used a puller to get the spool bushings out. Once out i went to town with honing stones and some erery cloth. Cleaned them all up, new o rings and the spools slided in and out like No ones business 8)
There was some dirt on the small screen in the pressure relief valve of the winch valve body and everything else looked good. All back together now just have to replace the fittings on the winch valve body and im good to go :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~132.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~131.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~134.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~133.jpg)
Looks good, nothing like clean parts and new orings :) I need to do this on my clark, it leaks like crazy out the top. I was wondering if you are going to bleed the hydraulics after you reinstall the valve body? Or if that's not necessary, The one thing I was unsure of before pulling my control valve off.
Apparently there is no need for bleeding the system. I had it drained before, just filled it back up and worked the hydraulics and all was good.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~136.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~135.jpg)
All done and ready to be connected!! Now its time for some serious Logging 8)
Excellent work...I need to do the same thing to my valve bank. I remember paying 60 bucks for those pressure relief valves back in the 70's. I priced a new one out recently and it was $500. I ended up rebuilding mine from parts.
Below is a picture of the O ring kit that I used. There were lots of O rings left over and I did have to re-use some of the larger o rings that are between the valve bodies as the kit did not have them. My TJ is built in 1965 so cesna must have changed the valve body a bit over the years but they told me the O ring kit i biught was for the older cesna valve body im thinking probably early 70's o ring kit. The TJ part number for this kit was #407629
Sanderson was $500 for the entire valve body consisting if the three valves or just one valve body and spool??
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~137.jpg)
It was $500 just for a new pressure relief valve!
Yikes!! Thats just a tad bit in the steep side :o
I have my eye on a 205 just gonna hit the guy up soon with the scrap metal value of the machine. From 1965 as well so I will have lits if spare parts. Heck maybe I'll bring that one back to life as well!!
One thing to check is the port relief valve, just switch the blade hoses at the valve so up would be down, if the down pressure now works then the port relief is probably where the problem is.
Hey Oldseabee, attached are parts list and schematics, which ine is the port relief valve. I dont see it listed in the parts. My valve is pretty much identicle to this one.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~138.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~139.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~140.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~141.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~142.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36925/image~143.jpg)
Been up and running for a while now but thought I would post this clip of tye rams working with out any issue now. Lots of down pressure and it will lift the front end like it should have. Main issue was seized hydraulic valve body. Spool and bushing in the end were pitted and binding not allowing full movement of the spool so very limited amount of fluid getting to the down side of the rams.
http://youtu.be/R3H2NdTbO70