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The vent about your customers thread

Started by mike_belben, August 18, 2020, 11:54:16 AM

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mike_belben

I got a call from a neighbor 1 to call neighbor 2 yesterday. Passed #2s house on the way home. He was on his way out but said he had a tractor hydraulic job he was too busy for and wanted to pass off on me.  Call him today for the details.. Tractor belongs to another neighbor i know. Number 3 who i like.  #2 wants me to swap out a hydraulic main pump in a grown up field, that he describes as very tucked up underneath and hard to get at.


Okay.. I know the tractor.  Whats it doin wrong.

Well the batwing mower wont fold and the loader will barely raise.

Whats the system pressure?

I dont need to check, i know its the pump.  

How?

Because i know who owned it before.  That machine's been abused to death, run dry etc. I know its the pump. You can just feel it and hear it whining when you move the valve.  

Have you checked the relief valve to see if its stuck open or have a bad O-ring, broken spring?

No i dont need to check that, its the pump.  


Well do you want me to deal with him or deal with you?

No you dont need to call him, you can just change it for me.  

Uhh.. Okay.  I dont mean to hurt your feelings but thats not enough proof for me to change a pump.  Who pays me if the pump doesnt fix it?

Well thats fine.  I will just tell him he will have to wait for me or find someone else entirely.




This is the same friend that tried to get me to pay him $400 for the referral of a "logging job" that turned out to be a dozen huge oaks leaning completely over a house and powerline.  Where i was supposed to cut and haul the logs then pay the landowner on shares and then pay him out of my cut.  


Im just venting, but man.  Some people. I thinks its better to just stay home doin dishes and laundry than deal with a lot of em.

Praise The Lord

moodnacreek

Very well said. I like the logging job also. If it wasn't roadside monsters it would be brush or 20" walnuts measured circumference. The last 2 worn out hyd. pumps I saw had plugged screens. Don't forget to kick back $ to all you friends.

mike_belben

Yeah when i saw the tree job i realized they took me for a fool.  First in line for the risk, last in line for pay.  boys where do i sign up?

I told him this was a $10k tree removal job requiring a crane and power company disconnect/rollup.  Go buy some spurs and try it yourself if you think its such a slam dunk job.  Theyre probably full of metal anyhow. 
Praise The Lord

Crusarius

its funny how everyone thinks they are doing you a favor.

I had a guy tell me about this huge pine tree that came down in a storm, asked if I wanted it. He held his arms in a circle to show me how big it was.

I got there and it uprooted, leaning against another bunch of trees, in a swampy area. Oh yea, he also didn't notice the cable that had been on top of the roots when it uprooted and is now exposed.

I got there to find the tree was about 7" diameter and all the hazards above. I walked away. then he took it down and I just picked up the log. Wasn't even worth keeping the log but I already told him I would.

WDH

Got an email today from a guy near me asking me if I was interested in some trees on some land that he had just bought.  I asked him if he wanted to sell the trees, give them away, what?

"Oh, I don't want any money for the trees, I just want you to take them down and remove them and remove the stumps on .6 acres that I need cleared in return for you getting the wood."

I guess that I am doing it wrong for not jumping on that :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mike_belben

Thats called doin 3 jobs for the pay of none.


I am glad the tractor pump discussion went the way it did.  Today was beautiful,  Kids finally in school.  I caught up on dishes, garden, compost, made pickles, worked on taxes, moved some junk around and got the mason body propped up on my old ford.  

The bummer of it is only then did i realize the hoist i have is from some other truck.  I think the right one is up in mass still.  Called it quits early, made a real dinner, sent the wife off to work with food and put the kids to bed early.  


You know id be just getting home covered in ticks and with some new disaster on my hands if i said yes.









Praise The Lord

BargeMonkey

Mike I admire your outlook on life, dont let it get to you sometimes 😆 
 
 The last couple years have been a hard lesson about cutting wood, I walk ALOT of wood, some I buy, some I just get back in the truck. Walked one a couple weeks ago, neighbors had been hammered, the people where nice but no clue, I was as honest as I could be, typical hardwood and hemlock, I offered them 1/3 more than I should because I've got a home for the firewood just down the road, looked at me in disgust like i wasn't willing to pay gold weight for their hemlock pulp 😆 

 

47sawdust

I'm 73 and still doing carpentry work, been at it for close to 50 years. I'm still getting phone calls for work but am very selective about what I will do.
The word ''NO'' comes up a lot. I find it very handy.
My wife likes it that way too. I don't come home cranky,plus I have more time to cook ,clean house and do the dishes.
I ain't sayin' I look good in a skirt, but I'm not afraid of housework.
Good on you , Mike
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

mudfarmer

Sounds like the hydro pump neighbor didn't want your expertise, just a wrench turner. Too bad really because you obviously have a highly detailed knowledge of hydraulics. Like moodnacreek said probably a plugged up screen.

Just to share in the fun, I did a lot clearing job for someone, got paid by the hr for running equipment and also kept all wood (good wood). It was profitable for me and both sides were very happy in the end. Then they said I should call/stop by their neighbor because they wanted a bunch of nice pine taken down.

The pines were in between/over the power lines and the house and the wind couldn't think of blowing without them flopping into both. They were 6" dbh, full of nails and the lady wanted me to do the job for free-- "You get to keep all that nice wood!"

I took a hard pass and nothing happened with those trees for months. Then someone with a minivan and a chainsaw showed up, cut the two of them that were between the power lines and the road instead of the lines and the house, and let them lay there. Again nothing for months. Finally went by almost a year after the initial call and a local tree service was there with a bucket truck writing her the big bill she deserved 8)

moodnacreek

Mike B. Whose children are those in my yard?   Oh sorry, that ford truck is not mine either. it's to new.                                                  I always enjoy your posts.

mike_belben

Well not to brag but i do have a pretty nice figure.  Not all skirts are flattering on me though, some give me muffin top and a beer gut.  I made some kinda leftover bacon sausage squash onion chard spaghetti sauce and provolone hodge podge last night.  Wasnt bad.  


Those brats are mine.  The boy is getting real tough to handle, im worried about it.  That flat spot is thankfully mine too.  When i moved here nothing was flat.  I cherish that flat spot.  Weve lost track but im gonna say its 220-240 triaxles of fill, demo, concrete, rebar..  Ive burned 2 houses in the back yard that came by dumptruck. Atleast 20 loads of gasifier char and wood chip that i composted and pushed out where the fruit trees should go eventually.  Being home to receive and push out free dirt has been my identity for a long time. Brough half an acre up about 9 feet.  The kids treehouse has become a deck with a basement!

I hope to setup a small specialty concentration yard here in the future, start buying semi loads of stave.  I think me and wyatt are gonna take a hard look at it maybe this fall.  Ive got the loader and ive had the bigrig in here plenty of times.  The wood is getting cut all around me and hauled a good ways off.  

Talked to one cutter working on my deceased friends 1600 acre tract.  He pays 50/50 shares on hardwood and 5% on pulp.  And boy he hauls a lot of pulp.  Shes given away half a forest.
Praise The Lord

moodnacreek

Mike, not many flat spots here either, had to make the one for the mill. Sawdust,slabs and rocks, sinks all the time, just add more.  I know it's non of my business but that boy should have more common sense that the average adult in today's times so keep up the good work.

petefrom bearswamp

These posts are precisely why I am getting out of business,albeit on a much smaller scale than you fellows. 
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

sawguy21

So WDH, you are gonna fell, buck, clean up then mill for his valuable timber and you didn't bite? Geesh!! :D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Maine logger88

 Anymore if there isn't 8 to 10 loads on a job I charge plus keep the wood it's too much riggin to move for small jobs without getting paid on top. Many people don't understand tho they figure just cause we can pay good money for wood on a regular woodlot and then wonder why there 5 pine trees on there lawn aren't worth the going stumpage rate... I've gotten to the point if there's not money in it I don't do it I'm done with the break even/go behind jobs. Not to say I won't do a favor for a friend or family tho just not for the general public
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

mike_belben

Well, i got the call today on the tractor.  Its my job to diagnose tomorrow.  Hopefully good weather and i dont make a fool of myself.
Praise The Lord

Hilltop366

Suppose they checked to see if there is any hyd oil in the tractor?

mike_belben

Quote from: sawguy21 on August 19, 2020, 06:58:14 PM
So WDH, you are gonna fell, buck, clean up then mill for his valuable timber and you didn't bite? Geesh!! :D
While back a fellow had a bunch of yard trees blow over.  Lets them sit a few months, then says he wants them hauled to the mill on 50/50 shares.  Well i was home with the kids from school closing over covid and it was a job i could bring them on, easy one for me.  Any money better than no money when the cupboards get bare.  
Yeah sure ill start tomorrow.
Oh no its gonna take a while, ive gotta cut em all first.  
Nah dont worry about thatyou dont need to do a thing, ill bring the bobcat and saws and get them all on the trailer tomorrow. 
No i dont wanna do it that way.  Im just gonna cut em all to 14 feet and pile em right here.  Probably take a few weeks. 
Uhh.. Well by then white oak will lose grade from the blue ring.. And theyre only gonna pay for 13 feet if u dont leave on trim.  besides they need to be cut for best grade at all different lengths to make any money.
Oh well theres not gonna be much money in this.  
Yeah...   (In my head thinking 'youre making dang sure of that.')  
...think i'll pass. 
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Quote from: Hilltop366 on August 19, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Suppose they checked to see if there is any hyd oil in the tractor?
Fixn to find out soon
Praise The Lord

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Maine logger88 on August 19, 2020, 08:29:10 PM
I've gotten to the point if there's not money in it I don't do it I'm done with the break even/go behind jobs.
My father stopped up to my clearcut job, I've got a brush pile that's pushing 20' high, 50' wide and will be 200'+ long, first good snow I'm throwing a match on it. Sit in the stroker and shovel it as high as I can, piles of 4-5" straight pole wood, "we have to save that", I'm like have at it, for yrs I've offered wood to people off the landing, block piles, last job I about begged people for 1 month to come get it, finally took the 850B and pushed it over the bank. I'm done with the small jobs, let someone else over pay and get nickel + dimed to death by the landowners. Yrs ago I avoided bid jobs, foresters, now it's the only way to go, I pay LESS for wood, 1/2 the headaches and if the landowner gets funny I tell him to call the forester.
I'm getting more and more of these jobs that got highgraded 30yrs ago, everything is beat, scarred, I've got a 246 acre job to walk this weekend, as much as these guys love that CTL these landowners want a clean swept woodlot. These private jobs that have been hammered 1x I dont even hide it, I'm going to go in and basically level what's not going to be good. 
I need to come see your chipper, I'm at the point of having to buy a bigger one. After another 648 / newer stroker 😆

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: mike_belben on August 19, 2020, 09:56:43 PM
Well, i got the call today on the tractor.  Its my job to diagnose tomorrow.  Hopefully good weather and i dont make a fool of myself.
Mike, just for fun I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that it is something simple, like low oil or a clogged screen. The statistics are in your favor. Now it could be that running a starved pump has killed the pump, but that is a slightly different animal.
 I'll be off cutting all day, so will be interested to see what you found when I get home tonight. Good luck. I hope this guy doesn't stick you.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

sealark37

The man at the tip of the spear has to have a good eye, a slow jump, and a good sense of humor.

mike_belben

Oh my Lord it turned into a much bigger trainwreck than i imagined was even possible.  Grab a beverage for this one its bound to be long.  You can decide if im the fool or not. Probably am.


Here i was worried about the conflict of interest in working under neighbor 2 at his possibly misdiagnosed command on neighbor 3s equipment.  Naturally the farmer, #3 would want me to do what is in his best interest against #2s direction to just change the pump. When #2 bowed out i became only beholden to #3 directly which is great, we both want the machine fixed as cheap and easy as possible.

Farmer and i arranged for me to troubleshoot today and all started off well. Note that i had a direct appointment with the owner of the machine for a for hire mobile repair job. I have a business license and an invoice book.  He can write me off as a legitimate business expense and hold me to my work.


I load up tools and head over.  My friend, neighbor 4, is there doing some work for the farmer, and charging the dead tractors battery.  4 informs me neighbor 5, a complety useless, lying, con artist knowitall big mouth user who you cant ever trust for anything.. Had fooled with some stuff previously. Great.  He is known for abusing the other neighbors until they complain then threatening to "stomp them."  Numerous instances. We all know each other.  I found out through the grapevine recently that 5 is gonna have me do some dozer work for him.  Boy have i got a surprise.  I dont work free and he never pays anyone that he promises in cash or trades.  Owes everyone something.  



Anyway I get started looking at the layout.  IH 1586 i think.. DT series motor, ambac rotary pump, AC, full cab.  No hyd pump on the motor.  Pump has to be submerged inside the transaxle.  2 spool valve with 3 pipes [pump, tank and power beyond, we have to assume but i cant know which is which at a glance] up in a tight spot with no sign of any relief valving except in the work sections.  Its a sectional valve, not monoblock, could easily have a leak between sections. I can see where the hard pipes go and we must also remember that somewhere in this probably singular pump circuit, is also another valve for the single acting hyd cylinder that works the rockshaft for 3point lift arm.. And that it is either in series or in a power beyond parallel circuit with the loader valve off one single pump. I can only guess without a schematic.




The loader hoses run all the way to the back and they use quick couplers to switch from loader to batwing.   Farmer has never run the lift arms on this machine and he was sick 2 yrs with rocky mountain fever so his former partner was running it as it slowly got worse, farmer just doesnt know much about it.  Partner changed out fluid and filter and added extra.  Fluid looked great. All one fluid for gears and hyd accessory.  I drained clean water out of the throwout housing, probably condensate.  

I can see an access that i assume goes to a wire mesh sump screener.  On the opposite side is a plug that looks like a relief valve port near what i presume is the panel for pump access inside the main case under drivers feet.   And uptop under the cab [tough to get at] is a pair of large plugs in a block that likely also house reliefs or cushion valves or something of the cartridge sort. Look like -16 or so SAE O ring caps to me. Standard fare.


I quickly pencil out these possible hydraulic circuits on my cardboard mat for him, hoping it will jar a memory that gives me more clues.  tell him without a schematic i cant know which part is upstream or downstream so my strategy is to first check for any physical cause of bypassing by temp, sound and then pulling port plugs to inspect parts.  It still wont start so we put my truck on the other battery.  

Enter the drama:


At the time i didnt know that neighbor number 5 was driving by on his way to town to pick up a car part for number 2 who has a shop next door, when he saw the commotion and invited himself over because he loves the attention of a crowd for his baloney stories.  Parks his truck RIGHT in the gate so no one can come or go, thats how important he is.  Theres several others obviously doing hay around that may need to leave at any time but no.  I'll park here out of 220 acres or so.  

He swaggers up like a code inspector with a power fetish and just says stop stop stop.. I know whats wrong with it then starts spewing all the daydream nonsense that all non-mechanics are always well versed in.   Picture elmer fudd and yosemete sam with a real heavy slow southern mountain drawl full of all the bells and whistles. Boooy i say yew cant tell me nuttin about no tractor my daddy this and my papaw that i know everything there is to know about everything on hoof or tars. My daddy and his daddy cut this har field and ive fixed every this that n the other.   those are actual quotes. And theyre contrary to everything i ever hear about him which is basically that he can screw up anything.  


His story is always debunked as soon as he walks away by the crowd he tells it to. Im very tired of him. And i know he wasnt asked to come because he had to introduce himself to the farmer who ive known 4 years. 


We on my road would all roll our eyes and walk off but farmer is a leasor from 2 counties away.  And somehow he seemed  to buy into elmers bamboozling.  He convinced him that the remote lines are all hooked up wrong and that air bubbles are trapped in this open center system. Which anyone ought to know will purge itself pretty easily, enough to work.  I got it started and it will shudder the hoses but this machine has DEAD hydraulics.  Not some air pocket. It wont load the engine even at low idle.  Because its probably making about 15psi, just enough to wag a long hose when u call for pressure. 

Im saying lord please help me ignore him and behave.  Im testing functions out.  #5 is just doing anything he wants without any communication.. I see fluid go flying several times.  Hes covered in it, just plugging and unplugging all sorts of stuff while im in or under a running machine, no warning. It is not safe at all.  He doesnt care if im under the loader, he will just unplug it.  The loader keeps dropping as he is bumping the coupler check valve tips and spraying oil all over.

After a while of just standing in the sun, i privately told #5 that this is my job, if i cant fix it i will walk away and he can have it, and that i work alone.  No response.  Like i never said it.

Goes right back to it.  He and the farmer just crowd me out.  He has the owner convinced that the loader staying up on its own is an indication that the valve is good.  Its not even connected to the valve.  Then when he has fluid spraying in his face its "yup see? Thars your problem ruyt thar, its got back preshurr"    And im in my head saying thats the loader line and its raised, moron.  Ofcoarse its gonna hose you, that fluid is holding up 700 lbs of fork.  


So he is just blowing gallons of brand new oil all over himself, the machine and the grass playing quick coupler hokey pokey.. Atleast a pail so thats $30 or more if its decent oil.  and all he has done is disconnect the batwing and connect the loader which we didnt need to do and with the loader on the ground u cant tow the tractor to my house.  Surprise, the loader wont lift itself either and its not air.  Ive got the stethoscope, temp gun, gauges, tools .. Just waiting for idiot to go home so i can find the ripped oring or jammed poppet and get paid.


Several times i get farmer to look at me and wave him over to talk privately because elmer will not leave and if hes staying im going.  My time isnt free, i have work to do at home and it was perfect out. Farmer wont talk to me.  Hes too nice to shew this fly away and knows thats what im gonna demand.  He is in avoidance.  He had already said 'ill pay you both i just want it running' but i cannot safely do anything with elmer there. So i finally say elmer i need you to move your truck as i start packing my gear.  

Farmer says do i owe you anything i said no but im pretty upset that you let him stand there playing silly games making me wait.  Hes not gonna fix your tractor.  Hes full of baloney and we all know him well, ask neighbor 4 he'll tell you all about it.

I packed up my tools and just got madder and madder and madder.. Figured this needs to be dealt with right here right now before this fool ever comes to my fence with a sob story on a little welding job or whatever. Because thats EXACTLY who he is.  A user.

I walked over to the two of em [both twice the size of me] and said elmer dont you ever come crawling over to my house asking for a favor .. I would NEVER show up to one of your logging jobs (he pretends to be a tree cutter, no one has ever seen him cut a tree) and see if i could steal your work right out from under you.

dont you go smartin off boy!  I said i was gonna fix this!

To who!? You just met him an hour ago! He hired me directly yesterday and now youre blockin me from doin my job, you wanna take my kids shoes too?!

You watch it boy! I'll....

I started screaming.. You'll what!? you gonna stomp me like all your other friends!?  Climb over that mower and get busy then!

Boy im not scared of you!

Im not scared a you either!

I think you better go on home boy

Elmer thats exactly what im gonna do ..you just keep purgin his air bubbles all over your shirt!

And i walked off.  Stopped at #2s and found out that elmer ditched the parts run that #2 waited on all day, to stick his nose in a tractor repair he wasnt asked for, but held up a car repair he was asked for.  So now #2 has to tell his customer the car will not be ready for pickup after all and here i am sitting inside a downpour with nothing to show for the useable part of the day.  

I think elmer knows pretty clearly where he stands with me.  And again im reminded i shoulda just stayed home and fixed my own stuff.  What a day.


Praise The Lord

Maine logger88

Wow that sounds like fun... you gotta love nosey dumb  lol. Do neither the 3pt or remotes have pressure?
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Plankton

Sounds like a big ol runaround. I know nothing about hydraulics compared to you but do run 66 series in tractors on the farm. Loss of hyd. Power to the remotes on the 66 series (no experience with 86 but there pretty close) can be as simple as the 3pt lever in raise. If your trying to run the rear remotes to the loader or any rear mounted farm equiptment  And the 3pt is in lift or drop it doesnt work.

Dont know enough about hydraulics to tell you why but it seems 3pt takes priority.

Ran into that with my 966 a few months ago had the loader off for a while doing hay etc. Put it on to load manure and it wouldnt move. I had bumped my 3pt lever down. Put it right in the middle along with the draft control. Just a thought.

Also theres a mcv on the clutch side of tractors that I think controls the 2 hydraulic pumps inside might have a screen? And adjustments. Again not my expertise I just run them and try to fix them when they break. The getting worse and worse doesnt line up with that theory but just thought I'd put it out there.

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