throw line entanglement

[OneWithWood]

An elm tree decided to fall onto Linnea's greenhouse during a storm Saturday.  Sunday I spent the better part of the day rigging a block in a nearby tree to run a winch line through to lift the tree off the greenhouse and pull it back over and to the ground.  I should have been able to snatch the tree in less than an hour but there were a few complications.
The hedge the tree fell out of has a number of grape vines and honeysuckle vines running through the trees and the understory is filled with multiflora rose.  Needless to say this made getting my throw line and block positioned tedious.  While studying string theory in depth I got to wondering how others keep the throw line tangle free.

How do you do it?

No matter how carefully I coil the line into the bag it tangles when I extract it.  I lay it out on the ground before I throw but if there is a twig or leaf or anything within a mile or two it manages to get tangled.
I am thnking I could purchase a good size spin casting reel and rig something up but reels big enough cost big bucks.

Any and all ideas are wlecome.

[JayG]

I have used a small crossbow pistol. It shoots a pretty heavy fishing line (25#) and I use the fishing line to pull the rope. Pretty quick, easy, cost effective.  I have the same affliction with ropes. :D

[Radar67]

A bowfishing reel works wonders.

[RynSmith]

  While studying string theory in depth

:D :D :D

[Reddog]

I use a line box. Baileys has them.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=TRB

[sprucebunny]

Do you actually "coil" the line ???

When fishing for tuna with a handline we would lay the line into a milkcrate in a loose figure eight pattern so that the loops did not lay together. A real coil is an engraved invitation for snarls.  :D

The ideas for launching the line are great! In a pinch, we've tied the rope end to a big shackle or something heavy and used the slingshot approach: swing it around your head in a pouch of old T-shirt and then let 'er rip. Aim is not always good with this .....

[grassfed]

Seems like I used to throw lines by throwing the coil. You hold it in your hand with the monkey fist at the top by your hand. Throw the coil stiff armed kind of like a discus without all of the spinning. Flick your wrist as you let it go so the coil spins and unwinds, from the end that stays with you, as it flies toward the target.
It has been more than 25 years since I used to do often in the Coast Guard so I may be remembering it wrong but that is the way I remember.

They used to get me to do the throwing when I was around so I must have been okay at it back then.

Give it a try and see how it works.

[maple flats]

I think Murphy controls the tangling. He has a law that is seldom broken.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I lay my line out in a figure 8 on a tarp/board on the ground and then use a Big shot sling shot to get the shot bag airborne. I have pretty good success with this method.

[BARPINCHER]

Start with tangle free line!!??  MAybe.  Shouldn't tangle if the advertising is true.  You can find it with the replacement muffler bearings, portable camshaft lobe separators, skewer bolt wrenches, and left handed smoke shifters in the Baileys catalog.

  In all seriousness, the only way I have got around that problem is spare throw lines and once they are all stuck then I climb ;D

[Kevin]

I shoot mine out of a plastic pail that you get at a restaurant.
I drilled 3/8" holes in the bottom to let dirt and water out.
Easy to flake back in and seldom tangles coming out, and it was free.

[Dave Shepard]

A Bigshot works well for setting throwbags. I just stuff the throwline in a small canvas bag made for it, never had a problem with that.

[bill m]

When you are finished with the throw line stretch it all out in a straight line and run it over a low hanging branch. Then when you flake it back into your storage container a lot of the twists in the line will come out of it and the next time you use it it will deploy with a lot less chance of tangling. For repeated throws an 8x8 tarp spread out on the ground will held keep twigs and leaves from getting caught in the throw line.

[grassfed]

I just wanted to add that if you are throwing by hand it works a lot better and you can throw farther if you throw the coil as I described above. If you flake it on the deck or try to throw from a box, bag, or bucket, the weight of the line as it uncoils ads drag and slows the line down much faster than if you make a coil slightly longer than the total amount you need to throw and then throw the whole coil at the same time. You just have to practice a little and get the feel of it. The trick is to make the coil spin like a Frisbee and unwind as it flies. This should work for say throwing a 100' or less total distance pretty well. Flaking ground or coiling in a bucket bag or box is the method to use when you have a line gun, bow or sling shot type throwing device.

[OneWithWood]

All good suggestions. Thank-you. 

I must be flake-challenged.  Back in my sailing days I flaked a number of deck lines and anchor rodes.  This modern hollow core nylon stuff just does not seem to relax any.  Usually about half way through flaking it twitches and the problems start.

I once used a recurve bow and modified arrow to place the line high in a tree.  I must admit I felt pretty stupid watching the bag and all the line sail up into the tree  .  It was placed perfectly and out of reach... :D

[bill m]

I just wanted to add that if you are throwing by hand it works a lot better and you can throw farther if you throw the coil as I described above. If you flake it on the deck or try to throw from a box, bag, or bucket, the weight of the line as it uncoils ads drag and slows the line down much faster than if you make a coil slightly longer than the total amount you need to throw and then throw the whole coil at the same time. You just have to practice a little and get the feel of it. The trick is to make the coil spin like a Frisbee and unwind as it flies. This should work for say throwing a 100' or less total distance pretty well. Flaking ground or coiling in a bucket bag or box is the method to use when you have a line gun, bow or sling shot type throwing device.

Your method works for the heavier ropes not the small diameter throw lines arborists are using now days.

[tonto]

OneWithWood, that would be my luck with no way to get it out. Tonto.

[MFinity]

An arborist I know uses a wrist rocket slingshot and a throw weight attached to light line.

[Gary_C]

Forget string theory. It's all about Neuton and Murphy.  ;D

For every load of logs I haul, I have to throw six straps up and over a twelve foot high and eight foot wide load of logs. If I use Neuton right and correclty estimate things like the wind, it's actually possible to throw that strap and have it hook itself on the rail of the other side of the trailer. But if I am in a hurry, Murphy applies and I will usually hit the near side of the stack and the hook will fall on top in a crack between logs requiring a climb to retrieve or bounce back and head directly towards my head.  :

So don't be rushed and throw straight using Neuton's laws. But be aware that if you do get the line over the limb, Murphy will probably wrap that sucker around another branch and you may have to climb that tree or just forget the DanG string and hire a crane.  :D :D

[Reddog]

OWW
Another thing is what type of throw line are you using?
I have found Zing-it in the 1.75mm works best for me. It is real slick and does not seem to tangle as easily.YMMV

Like Kevin pointed out a bucket is cheap and works. But the thing I like with the collapsible box is how easy it stores when all folded in a triangle.

[MFinity]

Some discussion on this topic over in the Urban and Community Forestry board, look for subject, "Throw line"