Is 4/4 bdft the same amount in SQ ft?

[Peter Drouin]

Ron, most times, there's no money in the whole sale market unless you have a high production set up. I do one with the crane matts and it works for me because it's big wood. What I do is ask the customer what he wants, then price it that way.
I sell the pine 1", Hardwood, 1 1/8". I don't get much demand for 5/4, sometimes 2" and I cut it 2 1/8"
I cut all my framing lumber full size. When customers comes to a [saw mill] they expect full size stuff. Around here no one asks for dressed lumber.
I can't tell you how many times a customer says now that's a 2x4 or 2x10 or whatever all full size and 99% of the time it's like that.
With all of this getting the logs is the hard part. With the way things are we lost a lot of loggers and I have to compete with the mills here that cut from 100,000 to 200,000 bf a day  : theres your wholesale market.
But I'm happy the sun is out and 28° and I have a yard full of hemlock  and the pine is coming  8)

[LeeB]

Yes, it is essentially the same thing. In reality, 4/4 is from 1.000" to 1.249" thick, so a 4/4 board could be almost 25% more in volume than a true 1" board.

What?  say_what

Still trying to figure that one

1"+25%=1.25", therefore a board that is 1.249" thick is very nearly 25% thicker than a 1" board. 25% thicker means 25% more volume.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Does sq ft = BF for 4/4?  The simple answer is

For softwoods, the two are almost never equal as the BF uses nominal sizes while sq ft uses actual sizes.  But sometimes, but not often, the two sizes are the same size, as Peter just mentioned.

For hardwoods, the two are equal...if the square footage is not in fractions but rounded to the whole number, and if the square footage does not use the over length but uses the last full foot...except if the square footage deducts for air space that we would have with a beaver tail end or similar wane issue).

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

So, what is the thickness of a piece of lumber that has wane?  Do I measure the thickness away from the wane?  Obviously, yes.  How about a thin end (beaver tail for example)?  Obviously, ignore the tail.  So what if some of the piece is over 1-1/4" thick and thinner spots are 1-1/8"?  Or what if the area near a knot is under 1.00" thick? 

For softwoods, there can be small areas of thinness...the rules state how much.  For construction grades, the main idea is to have a reasonably large nailing surface on the edges.  Of course, the customer "rules."

For hardwoods, the rule states that in most cases the thickness of the piece is based on the thickness of the region used to establish the grade.  Thinness outside the grading region is acceptable.  Of course, the customer may not like this and so it is not a good thing then.  Further, if the difference between the thinnest spot and the thickest spot within the grading region is too much, then the piece is given the additional title of "miscut."

Of course, a large mill cannot customize every piece.  So, standards or rules were developed so that both buyer and seller are "on the same page."  In fact, this customization is one key item that makes small mills better than the big mills.

[Cedarman]

Cedarman mentionEd a week long lumber grading coarse, I am very interested in doing something like that. Does anyone know when, where and what the cost of something like this is?

Check with NHLA for when courses are offered and where.  I know there is one in Memphis TN the first part of April.  I took mine in Indiana.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Lots of grading classes for hardwoods are through university extension, state forestry outreach and lumber associations.  We have one this summer in Antigo, WI at the North Central Tech College.

[Magicman]

It is amazing how our lumber perception and markets differ from locale to locale.  I am not talking about the math, but the products that our customers want.

Peter's framing lumber market is almost always "full size".  Mine is almost never full size.  He, Okra, ROL, Ron, Cedarman, WDH, and others are in business because they listen to and satisfy their customer's needs.

[Okrafarmer]

Depends on who you sell to.  If you're talking about the hobby guy that uses a small amount of lumber, then your system works.  Most times, the hobby guy doesn't know anything about lumber grades.  If your talking about a guy that does restoration work, for example, your system might work because he knows what specifically he needs.

But, if you are selling to a cabinet shop or a wholesaler, they do understand grade and they buy by grade.  Your system doesn't work, and limits your markets.  If you don't need them as a market source, then you're okay.  Sometimes cash flow trumps price. 

You are right, Ron. I do not sell any wholesale at this time. If I do start selling wholesale, it will probably begin with pallet and ties, which have their own requirements. I sell all my lumber retail right now, and am not efficient enough yet to do wholesale. If and when I become efficient enough, you better believe I'll pay a whole lot more attention to grade. I have studied through the grade book, but would need a review before depending on it. Around here it's easy to get a fair amount of FAS / 1Face poplar, but most other species it is harder to get a lot of it. #1 Common and below would be most of it for the oak and other species, I'm afraid. My nearest grade lumber buyer I'm aware of only takes red oak and poplar at this time. I think I'll need a newer sawmill before I can safely cut wholesale grade.

[Peter Drouin]

It is amazing how our lumber perception and markets differ from locale to locale.  I am not talking about the math, but the products that our customers want.

Peter's framing lumber market is almost always "full size".  Mine is almost never full size.  Okra, ROL, Ron, Cedarman, WDH, and others are in business because they listen to and satisfy their customer's needs.

We have a big snow load up here  :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D