Tractor deal / tire issues

[livemusic]

Last year in the February storm, temp got down to -1F. That is a record low for my lifetime. It usually only gets to low 20s or occasional teens in this locale. But it is usually much milder. Do you think that water is ok?

As for how to install it, I saw a Youtube; the guy bought a couple of gizmos and a short garden hose and pumped it in. I do have a pump. As for having it done, what type of business does this?

Due to timing, I may have to do it.

[btulloh]

Ag and truck tire dealers can fill the tires. You can rig your own system if you want another project. Large tank with air pressure on top and liquid on the bottom. You of course have to let all the air out first.  Probably bleed more air from the top as the liquid fills the space.  You'll save time and aggravation by going to a tire place.  If time is that tight just use as is until you have time. What's first, logs or goldenrod?

I'd stay away from water. It will rust your rims. Not as bad as CaCl but still leads to deterioration. 

===
Just so I don't have to find the goldenrod thread:  Be sure to check your air filter when you're checking the radiator. Air filters will fill up fast when you're doing that kind of stuff. The filter does it's job well, but when it gets packed with wispy stuff your engine won't be getting enough air. 

[livemusic]

Ag and truck tire dealers can fill the tires. You can rig your own system if you want another project. Large tank with air pressure on top and liquid on the bottom. You of course have to let all the air out first.  Probably bleed more air from the top as the liquid fills the space.  You'll save time and aggravation by going to a tire place.  If time is that tight just use as is until you have time. What's first, logs or goldenrod?

I'd stay away from water. It will rust your rims. Not as bad as CaCl but still leads to deterioration.

===
Just so I don't have to find the goldenrod thread:  Be sure to check your air filter when you're checking the radiator. Air filters will fill up fast when you're doing that kind of stuff. The filter does it's job well, but when it gets packed with wispy stuff your engine won't be getting enough air.

I am thinking of having him deliver the tractor to the pasture where I will clip the goldenrod because that is where I am now taking the oak rounds as I have run out of room at my house where my splitter is. I need to clip the weeds out of the way to store the rounds. I can take the splitter to the pasture later. Would like to split these many cords before summer because it gets hot!

After I clip the pasture, I can motor over to the tract I am doing the firewood work on. It's 15 miles but mostly blacktop and gravel backroads. I could have someone follow me with flashers if need be. (I don't have a trailer big enough to haul the tractor. Yet.)

I actually think I would rather take the bushhog off once the pasture is clipped because then it's firewood stuff after that. I could ballast the tires. I also am wanting something to skid logs, such as a  Norwood skidding 3-pt hitch gizmo that I posted about awhile back, or a forestry winch. That would add a little weight to the back end as well.

I have no idea how big a log I can skid with this tractor; I will search other threads. Moving logs is all about moving them to higher ground so that winter rains do not keep me from getting to the logs. Another removal method is that I can also use the FEL to put rounds in the utility trailer. Hope I don't bash up the trailer!

[wisconsitom]

Anybody know, does rimguard ever go bad?  Like, do you end up with tractor tires full of beet wine? :D

[btulloh]

It becomes a fruity red after while. About 11% alcohol content. Best paired with something like braised beef tips. Needs to be decanted before drinking. 

[thecfarm]

I myself hate those tire!!! And I mean hate!!! But I have them on my 40hp tractor, I bought it used as you did. I was shocked the tires was loaded. This tractor did not even have 800 hours on it and it was 8 years old.    It gets around fine on my land, nothing like those R1, but that's what 4wd is for.  ;) My land is hard to get around on too. Some wet spots and a steep hill that is wet all the time.
If I had a choice I would not have them on a tractor. I drive by dealers and see those tires on just about every tractor.
Get those tires loaded.
Those tires do not like grass that is real wet on a hill when digging a rock out. Too many times going back and fourth in the same place packs it down and I start to spin. I have used the bucket to push me backwards a few times.
Not like time is money. You will be fine.
Get that and tractor and wind it though that golden rod!!!  As I tell people I did not buy my tractor to look at. In the summer I am on my tractor just about every day, before going to work and when I get home. My tractor is a tool that gets used.  

[Gary_C]

If you do fill those tires yourself make sure you fill them properly. Not enough fill in those tires can be deadly going down the road. 

[livemusic]

What about skidding logs? I calculated that an 8ft oak log that is 34" at big end and 30" at small end weighs 2500 pounds. Of course, I could choose a smaller log. That big log size is about as big as I am dealing with. I don't yet have anything to put on the back. If I buy an expensive winch for the back, I need to research it. Prior to that, I might buy a Norwood skidding gizmo for 3pt hitch that I posted about on here a couple of weeks ago. It just raises your log off the ground and costs $300. Need some chains, so, they would cost more.

My brother has a utility arch lift for 3pt hitch, I wonder if that would do anything. It might be Countyline brand, so, it is not super heavy duty.

I also bought a tow strap couple of years ago like this -- Amazon.com: ORCISH 66ft X 2In Tree Saver Recovery Tow Strap Winch Strap17600lb Capacity : Automotive

Wonder if it would pull a log, I suppose so. It is rated 17k lbs. But, how could I raise the front of the log where I attach it not having any device for the 3pt? The arch lift? I need to move these logs 150-200 yards to the side of the access road.

Also, if anyone can comment about what size chains I need to buy, please advise.

[thecfarm]

I do that with a 40 hp tractor with a 3 pt winch. But it's a working to do it. But that's what I bought it for. Use that throttle and give it some!!!  
Very few times I had to drop a log and get over a bad area and winch it back in. I only log on my land, so any improvement I make, I use it for years. All my trails are planned out.
When hauling a log, don't look behind you too long. That front end can come up quick. It's not a race to get a log out.
Those winches cost, but I've had one since 1993.  The sprocket is starting to show some wear, but that winch has some hours on it. That winch has only been off a few times, and only for about a week each time.
Tires should be 8 ply. But if the tires are 4 ply they will last a few years. Tires on one tractor I had came with 4 ply. Saleman said no one ever complained about them lasting. Than later we was talking about changing oil and he some owners only do it once a year, Took a few years for that to sink in. Those are the one that only put 100 hours a year on thier tractors.

[beenthere]

What I use on the 32hp tractor..


 

A log chain in place of the tongs also works well.





And years ago with the Ford 8N


 

Simple ways and cheap..  not better than a logging winch like thecfarm uses. 

[BargeMonkey]

Everyone else has been spot on. R4s will give you almost the best of both worlds, just find a nice set of reasonable ice chains for when it's sloppy. My neighbor has 2x Kubotas on R4s and has no issues with his and plows quite a nasty driveway. Your going to find the tires last longer than an R1 and your not going to scrub front tires off as fast. Unlock your brakes and send it. 🤷‍♂️ 

[TroyC]

If your tractor doesn't come with a grapple, I'd suggest you look into getting one. You can simply pick the logs up instead of skidding them. Sometime I buck the tree in the woods and haul with grapple if the trails are wide enough. Narrow areas I use the log arch. A grapple moves, stacks, clears, lifts, etc. Wouldn't want to be without it.

[thecfarm]

beenthere,We hauled out many trees with a 1954 Ford NAA as you did with that 8n. Now that was slow. But it worked!! Lots and lots of memories. Oh why on why did I not take some pictures.  :(
 
My Father would drive and I was the chain man.  ;D  He would look at every log that I hooked up too. The same eyes would also look at every tree that was cut too. Better be done the way he would do it, or he would say something. Not in a mean way either. It was the right and safe way to do it.
We had about 3 chains, seem like each was 16 feet long. Sometimes I would have all 3 hooked together and only able to drive forward 10 feet than back up and repeat.
Then many years later we cut that 40hp 4wd drive with a 3 pt winch. Too bad he waited until he was 70 years old to buy it. He loved that thing and cutting wood!! Only got to enjoy it about 4 years.  :(
Another saying of mine, Do it young, so you can enjoy it, when you get old.

[livemusic]

What I use on the 32hp tractor..


 

A log chain in place of the tongs also works well.





And years ago with the Ford 8N


 

Simple ways and cheap..  not better than a logging winch like thecfarm uses.

@beenthere what is that implement in the first pic, it looks like it is a John Deere brand? I can't find it on google search.

[PoginyHill]

It's a quick hitch. Allows for quicker attachment to implements that are quick-hitch compatible. Works for a hook quite well! Here's one version (imported) just for reference:

Titan Category 1 and 2, 3 Point Green Quick Hitch (palletforks.com)

[NE Woodburner]

I have no idea how big a log I can skid with this tractor;

That tractor is about the size of mine and you can pull a pretty big log with it if you can get the end up off the ground. For years I used a simple 3 pt logging frame. I would back up to the log and choke up the log as tight as I could and lift it off the ground with the 3 pt hitch. Doesn't have to be too far off the ground to make it skid easily - just watch out for rocks/stumps in your logging road because if the log catches one you need to react quickly. Later I got a logging winch which works great. Biggest advantage with the winch is not having to back up to each log so you don't have to make a road to every tree you want to harvest.

I pull most of my trees out full length with just the small brush cut off and left in the woods. Anything that makes firewood comes out attached to the log. Bigger trees I will cut in half or more and pull out in sections. Sometimes these are quite large oaks and I've pulled some probably bigger than I should have. Also, if you are pulling logs through the woods wear a hard hat at minimum - a rugged steel frame over the tractor would be even better. I've had the log I'm skidding out bounce off a tree on the side of the skid road and rattle some pretty bid dead branches down.

Good luck.

[Southside]

Couple really good points there. I would add that use the tractor ROPS and the seatbelt when skidding. 

If you hook a root, stump, rock, etc with the log your tractor can climb right over itself and roll backwards onto the log. It happens fast, really fast. 

[samandothers]

If you do fill those tires yourself make sure you fill them properly. Not enough fill in those tires can be deadly going down the road.

Also don't over fill so the fluid has a chance to expand in the tire when going over bumps.

[beenthere]

What I use on the 32hp tractor..


 

A log chain in place of the tongs also works well.





And years ago with the Ford 8N


 

Simple ways and cheap..  not better than a logging winch like thecfarm uses.

@beenthere what is that implement in the first pic, it looks like it is a John Deere brand? I can't find it on google search.

As poginyhill said, this quick hitch is Deere's version and called iMatch. Handy as a shirt pocket when implements attached are fitted to match, then just pick-up and go, or drop and go. Handier yet when the top arm is hydraulic. 
Am thinking even Harbor Freight has a quick hitch. 
Attachments I have that match to the quick hitch are forks, brush hog, chipper, turboSaw, ballast box, and a carry-all. Have not converted the roto-tiller yet.

[John Mc]

I believe R4s have a stronger sidewall with front end loader in mind.
Also-someone correct me if I'm wrong- you can not swap to regular ag tires in the future, rims are wider for R4.

There is a new style of tire that has been out for a few years now: R14. It's a hybrid of Ag (R1), Turf, and R4 tires. (see this link on R14 Tires) Better traction than R4 or turf, less damaging to lawns than Ag or R4.
I can get them in the same sizes as the R4 tires that have been on my tractor for 20 years now. Mine are about due for replacement. Since the R14 since will fit on my current rims, I will probably go with that style. Just looking in to some questions with the manufacturer on durability compared to the R4 tires I have now.

[John Mc]

I've been using R4 tires on my current tractor for 20 years. I ordered my tractor with them because I am just not a fan of Ag tires in the woods. They just don't seem to hold up as well in the rocky woods where I'm working most of the time. I've replaced each of my front tires once, but I'm still on my first set of rear tires. All of them are probably getting close to needing to replace (the fact that the tractor has been stored outside for the last 10 years or so has not helped the rubber).

The traction of R4 tires in mud or wet clay can't compare to Ag tires, but I don't drive in my woods when conditions are like that if there is any way to avoid it. on solid ground, R4s have been fine for me.

I do use "Euro-style" studded chains in the winter. You can't beat them for ice and snow for both forward and lateral traction. (That lateral traction can be a real issue when operating on side hills.) I also use the chains quite a bit outside of the winter season due the the improved traction on soft ground over the bare R4 tires. I do try to stay out of the woods when wet, but sometimes it's unavoidable. We also have a bit of clay, since we are in the foothills of the Champlain Valley here in VT. The chains make a big difference in that as well.

I started with 4-link ladder style chains with v-bars (studs). They were good for forward traction when plowing my driveway, but not so hot on lateral traction when on a side-hill. They got me by, but they were the bare minimum for my conditions, and not good in the woods on side-hills. The fact that much of the chain drops down between the logs on R4 or Ag tires contributes to their lack of performance in my situation.

   


I switched to Duo-grip style chains with v-bars. They were good for both forward and lateral traction on ice and in the woods. Unfortunately, they about shook me and the tractor to death when operating on roads or hard packed earth at anything faster than a slow walk. That was real problem since I regularly drive my tractor between two properties that are 5+ miles apart. I ditched those after one winter season, but they would be a decent option for someone who did not need to do much driving on hard surfaces at higher speeds.

    


I ended up with OFA Eko 8 chains (there are other similar styles by several manufacturers, generically known as "Euro-style"). Great forward and latral traction ad smooth operation on the road. These are what I should have started with all along. I sort of knew that, but thought I could get by with something less expensive. Lesson learned: I've not found anything else that compares when operating in my terrain and soil or ice conditions.
   
(Not my personal photos, but I do have permission to use the images from the owners)

[kantuckid]

I believe R4s have a stronger sidewall with front end loader in mind.
Also-someone correct me if I'm wrong- you can not swap to regular ag tires in the future, rims are wider for R4.

There is a new style of tire that has been out for a few years now: R14. It's a hybrid of Ag (R1), Turf, and R4 tires. (see this link on R14 Tires) Better traction than R4 or turf, less damaging to lawns than Ag or R4.
I can get them in the same sizes as the R4 tires that have been on my tractor for 20 years now. Mine are about due for replacement. Since the R14 since will fit on my current rims, I will probably go with that style. Just looking in to some questions with the manufacturer on durability compared to the R4 tires I have now.

Dealers mostly never order a tractor with those newer R14 treads unless it's to mow lawns, a golf course, etc.. When I was looking last year I asked that question several times on the new treads. My tractor never sees a lawn, nor do I deal with VT weather.   
The OP's tractor having 430 hours and R4's-if it's been run on pavement much, they may be worn down a good bit? Mud is the only time my R4's have loaded up and lacked traction.
Another point for 4x4 tractors is to be certain to maintain tire sizes as the mfg. of the tractor intended so you don't mess with the 4x4 aspect. Ag tires might not be available for some rims to make that happen in either the fronts or rears when buying new tires.
My 2021 Branson has R4's and they have a lots deeper tread than the R4's that were on my Kioti in a different brand, aside from wear factor. USA Titan vs. current Korean tires.  

[John Mc]

Dealers mostly never order a tractor with those newer R14 treads unless it's to mow lawns, a golf course, etc.. When I was looking last year I asked that question several times on the new treads. My tractor never sees a lawn, nor do I deal with VT weather.

If I were interested in mowing lawns or golf courses, I'd be going with regular turf tires, not R14.

But I hear you. The jury may still be out on the R14 tires as far as toughness. If they are R4 construction with just a different tread, I'm interested. If they are turf type construction (or even some of the lighter Ag tires I've seen), I'm not going for them. Turf and many Ag style tires just don't hold up to being scraped around on our rocks or poked in the sidewall with a forgotten sapling stump.

I see the Kubota / New Holland / Case dealer down the road from me has R14 tires on some of their new Kubota Tractors. (Kubota had some sort of exclusive OEM deal with Titan for these tires. So unless that dela has expired, they may just be available for Kubota and aftermarket applications.) I bought my NH tractor there years ago and have kept contact over the years and bought a few attachments, so I know some of the guys there. I'll see what they say about folks who may be using them in their woods.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Saying R4 tires are tougher than an R1 is inaccurate. Its all about how many ply the tires are. Compare apples to apples ie 10 ply in both tread patterns and you will have equal "toughness". 

Many R1 tires are fewer ply as its not needed for field work, and the thinner tires flex and pull better. But like anything you can usually upgrade and get a heavier ply tire and it will have equal durability to an R4 of the same ply rating.

[John Mc]

Saying R4 tires are tougher than an R1 is inaccurate. Its all about how many ply the tires are. Compare apples to apples ie 10 ply in both tread patterns and you will have equal "toughness".

Many R1 tires are fewer ply as its not needed for field work, and the thinner tires flex and pull better. But like anything you can usually upgrade and get a heavier ply tire and it will have equal durability to an R4 of the same ply rating.

I agree 100% when you are talking about the same ply ratings. However, R4 tires are commonly available in higher ply ratings than R1 tires (at least in the sizes my tractor uses). The problem is finding higher ply rated tires in sizes to fit compact tractors. My current R4 tires are 4 Ply. They have held up OK, but I certainly would not go any lower. I'd go up a couple of plies if I could find them. (I did manage to tear the sidewall on one of my front tires. I haven't checked, but I believe they are 4 ply as well.)
The R14 that's available in my rear tire size is also 4 ply.
One thing I'm not sure of: do ply ratings always include the sidewalls of the tire, or are they mainly referring to the tread portion? I've seen a 4 ply Ag tire sidewall that got punctured by a sapling that would not have been a problem for my tires. I've also seen tires that had separate ratings for the tread and sidewall - I just can't remember where I saw them.