Live Oak -- wasting my time?

[wkf94025]

I was invited by my buddies at a local tree company to take some Live Oak (quercus agrifolia) this week.  I was excited when I saw the mass of the tree (4+ ft DBH), and the economics were hard to beat.  Today I hauled the first load an hour to my milling ops site, and the question is whether I should take a second (and third) lap tomorrow.  I rolled the scales today at 17,380#, so about 7,000# of Live Oak, and if I take two laps tomorrow, maybe another 16,000# in the milling queue.  I've read up a fair bit today on Live Oak, and have to say the reports aren't very encouraging.  I have a Lucas swing arm (carbide teeth with easy re-sharpening diamond wheel jig) and big slabber with multiple new chains on the shelf.  I also have solar kiln capacity for all of what I would mill.  Is this all a waste of time?  Firewood?



 

 

 



 

[beenthere]

Is this all a waste of time?

You did not say what you intend to use it for. 

What is your plan for the wood?

[Walnut Beast]

Since it's around a house it depends on how much metal you hit with the 💰carbide blades and long chains of the slabber 😳

[Ianab]

At least you have the right mill for the job. Part of live oak's bad reputation is that it's hardness and density make it difficult to saw with a regular band saw. But it's pretty normal for many tropical / Australian species, hence the swing mills being popular in those areas. 

I've seen it used for things like bar tops and live edge coffee tables. I'm guessing cut a bit thicker to allow for some movement, and expect to use carbide tools to work it when dry.  

[customsawyer]

I have cut lots of live oak. Most with my band mill and a few with the Lucas Slabber. It looks like what you had on that trailer load is limbs. Expect lots of stress in it. About the only thing you might be able to get out of the limbs is lowboy trailer decking. Cut it and bolt it down quick before it moves. Don't cut it until you have the trailer or the buyer ready. It is awesome for trailers due to the rot resistance. When you get down to the main trunk that will be where your better quality lumber will come from. I have made regular 4/4 lumber to slabs out of it and everything between. 

[caveman]

Your live oak and ours are a different species so I'm not sure how similar they are.  Jake (Customsawyer) has probably sawn a lot more than we have but we do saw a fair amount.  

What we do and what have we learned?  Saw it a little thicker than you would normally saw other woods.  Dry it slow (lower air flow areas, 3/4" stickers and sometimes covered with shade cloth).  It takes a lot longer to dry than other oaks.  Almost sharp tools don't cut it well.  It makes beautiful wood, especially when quartersawn.

[Nomad]

     Parroting others, the limb wood won't give you much to look forward to.  Your swing blade will really shine for you on the main trunk.  Keep it sharp.  If it's' anything like ours down here, it's a bear for sap buildup on the blades.
     As hard as it is, it's not too bad to slab.
     It can be very challenging to work with, but the results can be pretty special too.

[wkf94025]

Based on input from several of you last night, I decided to go ahead and take two more laps from this job to my mill site.  About 20,000# in total of Coast Live Oak.  When I went to get another trailer for the last trunk, tree team and I decided where they would cut the trunk, aiming for about 8,000# (trailer GVWR just under 10,000#).  When I returned with the trailer 45min later, they had a much larger trunk section waiting for me.  I asked how much, and crane op said 13,000#.  I said that would likely result in a blowout on Hwy 1, and ruin my day.  So they cut it down to a much more manageable 9,000#.  (Crane op said his scale is accurate to within 100#)

I think I'll take the advice of slab thick.  Trailer boards make sense, but forthcoming 22' flat bed trailer is brand new.  Maybe I'll beat up its pine boards for a year, then mill some Live Oak to replace the [cheap] pine.  

Thinking live edge slab tables from the main trunk section.  Imaginative, no?

The two "limbs" in this first photo were more like trunks, within 10 degrees of vertical.  

Project supervisor said he thought the tree was ~150 years old.  Any expert guesses?

[jpassardi]

I'll "go out on a limb" and say it's as old as there are growth rings.  ;)      Seriously though: 150 is probably close.

We cut a 36" white pine from my Parents yard that was dying at the top and it was 112 years old. I used it to make B&B siding for my garage.

[John S]

Milled some live oak in January from the Outer Banks in North Carolina.  Live edge slabs, the widest was 32 inches at one point.  I would not be disappointed if that was my last job with live oak.  I don't have any carbide tipped blades, just Turbo 7s and some 747 7s.

[windblown]

I'm going to go out on a limb (pun intended) and agree about the amount of stress built up in most of that wood. Looks like their isn't a straight piece in the lot. It will likely have a mind of it's own once slabbed up. If you can keep it mostly flat it should have some nice character which can make for some nice finished pieces though.  

[wkf94025]

Thanks for your puns gentlemen.  They go well with first cup of coffee.  ;-)

On the main trunk, I was thinking of slabbing it in 3" or 3.5" lifts, then banding the whole thing back together, stickered, with some serious tension via several steel cables around it.  Park it in some shaded air flow and let it sit a year or so.

[Den-Den]

Those limbs would have been perfect for ship building if anyone still built wooden ships.
The live oak in my area is a very slow drying wood, it will do what it wants to, when it wants to.  Perhaps saw it with a vague plan and adjust that plan as needed in a few years when it is dry?

[wkf94025]

Speaking of ships, I read somewhere this week that wooden war ships used Live Oak as the decking, as cannonballs bounced off.  Love that.  

[jpassardi]

Some useless trivia for ya: The USS Constitution (Old Ironsides), the world's oldest navy vessel used live oak for the frame, white oak for planking.

[LeeB]

hen banding the whole thing back together, stickered, with some serious tension via several steel cables around it

You will need to constantly adjust the tension on the banding because as the wood dries it will shrink.

[Machinebuilder]

It was sometime in the last couple months someone here posted a Youtube link to this strange bandmill setup.

It was down in south Georgia, and the operator specialises in Live Oak.

the video was about the restoration of a sailing yacht (the Tally Ho) and they were cutting knees etc to rebuild the frame. The restorer went into the reasons for using Live oak.

I watched a couple of the other video's on it and it's really amazing the work involved.

As I recall the band mill was built with 2 forktruck masts so he could follow the curve of the log (no it wouldn't roll)

this might work as a link to the milling

bandmill

[wkf94025]

You're right, I watched that amazing video, and forgot that Live Oak was the species.  Though I think the Live Oak in the southeast is different than Coastal Live Oak here in CA.

[Machinebuilder]

I missed that you're in NorCal.

The Tally Ho is still an interesting watch.

[wkf94025]

More [California] coastal live oak questions.  A large specimen gave up the ghost and fell a few months ago on my daughter's school campus.  I mentioned to the school that I mill and dry and shape wood, and would be willing to volunteer my time to make something interesting from the main trunk.  The school would ideally like a large slab conference table, and possibly a bench to go next to the replacement tree someday.  Last week we used a crane to put the 9,000# trunk log on my flat trailer, and the log is now sitting at my mill site an hour away.  Question for you experts here is when to slab it?  Right away, or after some months or years of drying in log form?  I plan to slab it a good inch over desired table thickness, and expect some movement based on all the comments on this thread months ago when some large live oak ended up in my lap.  

Bench stock with the left overs shouldn't be too hard.  Key question is when to slab for the big table?  And any drying tips pre or post-slabbing.  I am not expecting we can extract a quality slab or two from the full 17ft length, given the twisted nature of the log.  Slabbing with Lucas Mill, and eventually using planing attachment to knock down some of the Z dimension that will result from drying.



 

[Southside]

Slab it now, even better would be if you had slabbed it the moment it fell.  For sure get a fresh cut on those ends and paint them with Anchorseal.  Anything to slow down and control the drying process. 

[Ianab]

I agree, saw it now, it's only going to get harder to cut over time. Then let it dry slowly in the shade. 

When you cut the live edge slabs, take them well away from the pith. A slab cut through the pith will look neat, but it's 100% sure to split in 1/2. Your good slabs will be a few inches above and below the pith. 

The slices near the pith, you are best to rip them in 1/2, discarding the pith area, and then you have 2 nice quarter sawed boards. So they aren't rubbish, and will be some of the best wood, once that pith is gone. 

[charles mann]

The live oak we have in my area is like the oaks in the youtube vid cutting for the tally ho. Iv got s couple logs in the 36"+ and been down for 3-4 yrs. I guess i gotta find a diamond tipped blade or chain since its probably harder than a blacksmith anvil. 

[Ianab]

I guess i gotta find a diamond tipped blade or chain since its probably harder than a blacksmith anvil. 

That is a scenario where carbide blades are justified. That's what the guy in the video uses. 

I'm not sure exactly how hard the Cali live oaks are, but I'm guessing there are up toward the higher end of the scale. 

[charles mann]

I guess i gotta find a diamond tipped blade or chain since its probably harder than a blacksmith anvil.

That is a scenario where carbide blades are justified. That's what the guy in the video uses.

Yes, i know, hence the joke of needing diamond tipped cutting equipment.