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Author Topic: Mixing Glyphosate  (Read 1291 times)

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Offline Treeflea24

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Mixing Glyphosate
« on: April 28, 2022, 10:54:42 PM »
I am mixing Glyphosate for backpack sprayer foliar treatment of honeysuckle. Im trying to follow the instructions and I have a question for the foresters:

The product literature says "Alderberry, Dewberry, Honeysuckle, Post oak, Raspberry — For control, apply 3 to 4 quarts per acre of this product as a broadcast spray or as a 1 to 1.5% solution with handheld equipment."

The product is "Drexel Imitator Plus" and it is 41% gylyphosate.

When mixing, should I aim for 1-1.5% of the contents of the product? (1.3-1.9 floz/gallon)
OR should I shoot for 1-1.5% of the active ingredient glyphosate? (3.1-4.7 floz/gallon)

its a difference of more than 2:1 depending on which method I should be following, and as I read it the instructions could be interpreted either way.
Thanks for any guidance.
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Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2022, 11:38:24 PM »
2-3 oz.of product per gal. of water should do.

For any and all glyph. 41 percent A.I. formulations, I actually always shot for 2.5 fl. oz. of product per gallon of water.  This will work across a very wide range of target species, as it has for 40 or so years on my end.  Good luck, non-native invasive honeysuckle is a tough customer.

Nothing good in the understory, that you're able to foliar spray?
I'm a life-long learner.  That's why I made sure to start out real dumb!

Offline WDH

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2022, 08:36:28 AM »
I agree with Tom.  It is the % of the herbicide liquid in the container, not based on the active ingredient.  I also mix at 2.5% to 3% as a broad range mix.
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Offline kantuckid

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2022, 08:50:11 AM »
Honeysuckle historical sidenote: I just finished reading a civil war novel that's often historically correct. It contained a comment on honeysuckle that left a lingering thought in my small brain towards the question of if there was even any honeysuckle here in the mid 1800's? I just googled the question and the topmost response said it was the early 1900's. Then right below it says Japanese honeysuckle came in 1806?
I have lots of the vine and the shrub version is now showing up on property edges. 
So far, I don't spray in the woods here. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2022, 09:08:05 AM »
Kantuckid, there's native honeysuckles too, as well as these invaders.

On a general note, foliar spraying is fast and relatively easy-for the first ten hours, anyway💪, but often there are desirable plant species present that would be hit by the spray stream.  That's when cut-stump and/or basal bark applications become useful.
I'm a life-long learner.  That's why I made sure to start out real dumb!

Offline PoginyHill

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2022, 09:38:07 AM »
For stump application and mixed with diesel, what is the proper ratio? I've been using 1/2-1/2. Is that too rich?
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Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2022, 09:48:03 AM »
Honeysuckle historical sidenote: I just finished reading a civil war novel that's often historically correct. It contained a comment on honeysuckle that left a lingering thought in my small brain towards the question of if there was even any honeysuckle here in the mid 1800's? I just googled the question and the topmost response said it was the early 1900's. Then right below it says Japanese honeysuckle came in 1806?
I have lots of the vine and the shrub version is now showing up on property edges.
So far, I don't spray in the woods here.
What book?
Just finished Killer Angel's for the hundredth time
The First 69 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2022, 10:29:08 AM »
You're in the ballpark Pog.  You might consider switching to a triclopyr (garlon) product at some point, for cut-stump and basal bark apps.  Glyph gets most, but for example, not maples.  To be sure, the only maples on my land that would ever get the treatment are box elders from the neighbor's big momma seed tree, but overall, triclopyr seems best for more targets.

Now if anyone's trying to kill black locust, ya might as well reach straight for imazypyr.  It's about all you got for that nasty invader.
I'm a life-long learner.  That's why I made sure to start out real dumb!

Offline PoginyHill

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2022, 10:57:39 AM »
My bad. I do use triclopyr. Mixed with diesel. To treat beech and grey birch stumps.
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Case 310, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 391

Offline WDH

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2022, 07:48:18 PM »
I mix triclopyr at 25% with 75% diesel for basal bark application. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2022, 10:48:27 PM »
Yup.  There's bark oil too-might offer a bit better penetration, not sure.  My contractor guys back when I was working, just a few months ago, had gone to all garlon 4a or equivalent, with bark oil.

Those guys do that type of work on a mass scale.  Two winters ago, we (they) cut and stump-treated enough buckthorn brush in a wooded strip along some RR tracks to fill a space the size of Lambeau Field (Green Bay Packers, y'all) to head height with cut brush.  That all eventually got burned.
I'm a life-long learner.  That's why I made sure to start out real dumb!

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2022, 10:01:33 AM »
Kantuckid, there's native honeysuckles too, as well as these invaders.

On a general note, foliar spraying is fast and relatively easy-for the first ten hours, anyway💪, but often there are desirable plant species present that would be hit by the spray stream.  That's when cut-stump and/or basal bark applications become useful.
I have two different red honeysuckle plants growing on my place now, one I bought on ebay from an AR private seller, the other I grew from a cutting I sort of stole off a vine in a FL state park. They are not the same plants either. One of our sons, in Knoxville, TN bought a home there last summer and has a red one that's different than the red ones I have as it has multiple flowers in "bunches" and it grows around his mailbox where the former owner planted it.
 
I have never seen a red honeysuckle ever, anywhere, in the wild, growing on it's own. 

Another "honeysuckle like" plant sidenote:
 The first time I'd seen Yellow Jessamine Vine (also called Carolina Jessamine) was while hiking in FL and I noticed the close resemblance to honeysuckle excepting color only as it's an intensely yellow flower. So, dumb me decides to suck on a blossom same as I did with the Japanese Honeysuckles from my youth. Yes, it's sweet! I cut some off, brought it home and rooted it and planted it near our home. I then looked it up to learn that the sweet nectar is laced with strychnine and can be lethal. I pulled the plant and thanked my lucky stars. It's illegal to sell in some states, not all though. 

It's not in my state of KY but a common vine in timber further south so worth a mention here perhaps? 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2022, 10:08:57 AM »
Honeysuckle historical sidenote: I just finished reading a civil war novel that's often historically correct. It contained a comment on honeysuckle that left a lingering thought in my small brain towards the question of if there was even any honeysuckle here in the mid 1800's? I just googled the question and the topmost response said it was the early 1900's. Then right below it says Japanese honeysuckle came in 1806?
I have lots of the vine and the shrub version is now showing up on property edges.
So far, I don't spray in the woods here.
What book?
Just finished Killer Angel's for the hundredth time
I have three, all written by Newt Gingrich and the co-author Wiliam R. Forstchen, both are historians. The one I've not read yet is called "Never Call Retreat" and the lasty in the series. After I got toward the end of book #2 I learned I would get to the end of the war. I've read others over the years and have one still unread. The other one is called "Curiosities of the civil war" or similar title name? I'll look up Killer's Angel", thanks!
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2022, 06:33:56 PM »
Thanks,
You won't be disappointed.
It's written by Michael Shaara.
The First 69 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2022, 04:29:35 PM »
Thanks,
You won't be disappointed.
It's written by Michael Shaara.
Apologies for staying off thread here but to finish the thought: 
I find that there's a 3 book set, well sort of. Jeff the son of Michael Shaara wrote Gods & General plus Last Full Measure, Michael the prize winning The Killer Angels. Reviews are mixed on Jeff's Civil War books, while Dads get rave reviews. Jeff's "other novels" are higher rated, so I'm asking if the "Jeff books" in this series are worth the bucks?
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2022, 08:24:30 AM »
The Mac daddy is dad's book killer angels.
Son Jeff's gods and generals and the last full measure are his first attempts so not up to dad at that point but still very informative.
He hits his stride after that.
I own them all.

We took a last minute trip to Gettysburg this weekend. Hired a guide who took us past Jeff's house.
The First 69 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Offline Treeflea24

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2022, 11:59:39 AM »
Nothing good in the understory, that you're able to foliar spray?
Thanks for the input on the mix ratio. There is not too much going on in the understory other than the honeysuckle and privet - its practically a knee-height carpet of it. I already cut and stump-treated all of the larger bushes last year. The area Im working is a little less than an acre and Ive only come across a handful of the oak, black walnut and black cherry seedlings that I was hoping would regenerate here. Hopefully removing the honeysuckle will help that issue, though I'm afraid it might make my other issue - deer browse - worse than it already is by exposing the seedlings.
The other thing that seems sensible about spraying this time of year is that a lot of the desirable seedlings havent leafed out yet, other than the cherry. Mayapple, trout lily, raspberry, and buckeye are the other ground-level plants that are Im finding in the gaps in the honeysuckle, and Im trying to avoid spraying them as I go. I was afraid I would get feedback saying that I'm making a mistake by spraying this early in the season.
A couple other things Ive learned along the way:
I only put one gallon into the backpack sprayer at a time, then keep the rest at a central area to go back and refill. No sense in lugging extra weight around.
I use a blue dye and mix it in heavier that what I used to, to be able to see where Ive been - the plants have a noticeable tint when Ive covered an area. When im done for the day I tie a couple pieces of ribbon to a few trees to mark my progress for when I return.
Last year I cleared this whole area of the large mature honeysuckle, and i piled these bushes into 3 or 4 large brush piles. Young honeysuckle is growing up through the middle of these piles, and it is a pain in the butt to climb in and around these piles to spray the new ones come up through. In the future I will spend some time trying to kill the small plants in the areas where I plan to make these piles.
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Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2022, 10:38:41 PM »
You definitely got a good handle on this.

Around here, buckthorn is the worst invasive shrub, and non-native, invasive honesuckles are number 2.  And yes absolutely, early and late in the growing season offer great windows to foliar-spray seedlings of these, as they tend to green out earlier, and stay green later, than most of our native stuff.

Spray on👍.
I'm a life-long learner.  That's why I made sure to start out real dumb!

Offline John Mc

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2022, 06:41:37 AM »
I agree with Tom.  It is the % of the herbicide liquid in the container, not based on the active ingredient.  I also mix at 2.5% to 3% as a broad range mix.
I buy 41% glyphosate concentration. I have always gone for the percent of active ingredient, since that is what is doing the work. That's also what was described in an invasive plant control workshop I attended years ago.
A few years back, I gave up on treating my buckthorn since I was not able to make enough headway against it working in my spare time, on my own. I applied for a cost sharing grant from NRCS under the EQIP program and was accepted. I hired a contractor who treated 25 acres, about 2/3 if which was rated as "heavily infested" with the balance "moderately infested". The final follow-up treatment was done last year. I'll be monitoring for new growth, as I expect some will be srpouting from the seed bank. I'll be doing that follow-up work myself.
Last summer, I also got another grant to do another 26 acres on an adjacent parcel I purchased a couple of years ago. The degree of infestation was similar. I brought back the same contractor for that.
I need to touch base with the contractor anyway. I'll ask him what his interpretation is.
As a double check, I'm going to see what the recommended concentration is shown on the label of the hardware store 18% glyphosate bottles. If it recommends the same %, I'll know they are talking about active ingredient. If it recommends significantly stronger, then they are talking about how much to dilute whatever is in the jug. (I will have to watch to make sure it's just gyphosate as the active ingredient, since some of these formulations are mixed with other herbicides, which can affect the recommended strength.)
You might consider switching to a triclopyr (garlon) product at some point, for cut-stump and basal bark apps.  Glyph gets most, but for example, not maples.  To be sure, the only maples on my land that would ever get the treatment are box elders from the neighbor's big momma seed tree, but overall, triclopyr seems best for more targets.
Unfortunately, the only herbicide a landowner can legally purchase and apply here in VT is Glyphosate. You have to be licensed for anything else. (Which does make me wonder how the hardware stores get away with selling some of the roundup formulations which have small amounts of other herbicides mixed in. Maybe they are in low enough concentration that the State doesn't care?)
... To be sure, the only maples on my land that would ever get the treatment are box elders from the neighbor's big momma seed tree, but overall, triclopyr seems best for more targets.

Now if anyone's trying to kill black locust, ya might as well reach straight for imazypyr.  It's about all you got for that nasty invader.
I hate Box Elder (some of the old-timers in our area refer to it as "Ash-leafed Maple"). They are always dropping limbs in every stiff breeze, and sometimes huge branches when we get a real storm. I'm fortunate that we don't seem to have many on our property.
We do have a couple small areas with Black Locust. Our forester recommended killing it off because "it will spread and take over the place". I have not done so, because I use it for various projects when I need rot-resistant lumber, and need a crop for my future projects. (The corner posts and railings on the pavilion near our pond was one project. I've also used it for a number of objects in the obstacle course we have along the trails in our woods. It's holding up better than some of the pressure-treated lumber I've used.)
It does seed in a grow in the open areas. I just mow the places where I don't want it. I suspect it it not very shade tolerant, since I don't see it deeper in the woods - it's not making any moves to take over our woods, so I'm happy to keep growing my supply in the little corner where it is already established.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Treeflea24

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Re: Mixing Glyphosate
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2022, 11:53:21 AM »
Thanks all for the guidance. Here's a before-and-after

Before (5/2)




After (5/23)



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