Felling trees in dense forest

[Jbarker855]

Hello all – thanks for allowing me into the forum. I have been cutting trees/firewood recreationally for the past 16 years. I've been felling trees for my sawmill and selling lumber for about a year. I have a fair amount of experience, but no professional training. I tend to think of myself as mechanically inclined with a good understanding of physics and a healthy measure of common sense. I say all this just so you know my starting point here.
In any case – here's the question. I am looking for any tips/advice on felling mature trees in a dense forest. I am lightly logging 50 acres of forest (mixed hardwoods and conifers).
Many parts of the forest are fairly dense with mature trees (16 to 24 inch diameter). I would prefer to thin the woods uniformly as opposed to just taking the easy trees that are right along the trails. I think this would be better overall for the health of the forest. (Maybe I'm wrong though?)
But thinning the trees uniformly means many of the trees would only fall 10 or 15° before getting hung on the way down. I have a John Deere 4120 (43 horse, four-wheel-drive), tractor to help me. I'm thinking that getting a pto powered logging winch may be helpful, but that's really my only thought so far. Any suggestions on safely taking down trees in a dense, mature forest would be greatly appreciated!
-Jay

[Magicman]

First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I don't leave home without knowing my destination and planned route of travel.

I am certainly no expert faller, but I would develop a plan by marking the targeted trees.  Then develop a falling strategy/sequence that will fall trees into the voids created by previous felling.

[barbender]

 I also welcome you to the Forum, Jbarker!

 A pto winch will be a great help in getting trees on the ground and out to your trails. 

 Opening the forest up may or may not improve the forest, and "improve" is somewhat subjective anyways, depending on what you want it to be when you're done. If it is of great concern to you and you have specific goals , having a forester make up a management plan and using that for harvesting will give you clear direction, and could also have tax benefits depending on where you are.

[thecfarm]

Welcome to the forum.
Have you tried to fell these trees yet?
I have  places in my forest that have not been cut for 100 years.
Sometimes I don't think the tree will come down without some help, but it does. 
A 3pt winch will really help you. Not only getting the trees that don't want to fall to the ground, but getting the logs out too. That size tractor is what I have.
If a tree is hung up, put a rolling hitch on it. Do not try to pull the tree straight over. The tree needs to be twisted off the stump.

[Jbarker855]

Welcome to the forum.
Have you tried to fell these trees yet?

If a tree is hung up, put a rolling hitch on it. Do not try to pull the tree straight over. The tree needs to be twisted off the stump.
 

I haven't yet tried felling any of these trees.
A rolling hitch... That is a great tip!  Totally makes sense. That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Thank you. And thank you to the others as well for your thoughtful advice. 

[Skeans1]

How dense is the stand? What are you targeting for removal?

[Ianab]

Opening the forest up may or may not improve the forest, and "improve" is somewhat subjective anyways, depending on what you want it to be when you're done

To expand on this, removing single trees will promote different regrowth compared to creating larger open clearings. Some trees need pretty much full sun to regrow, while others do better in the semi-shaded "light tunnel" left by a single tree's removal. Which is "better" depends on your forest and your aims. There are valid reasons for using either strategy. 

So whether you create a narrow "snake" of a trail like MM suggests, or just mark out an acre and clear it depends on your long term plan. 

But either way it's a matter of thinking ahead, this edge tree I can drop easily, and that opens up a gap for that one behind it, etc. Then being accurate with your directional felling.

[Peter Drouin]

   Jabaker 855
Magicman Has good point with a plan, tie a ribbon on what you want, and thinking of a road you might want or need. Just cut the stump down.  
Thecfarm, that is good trick, done it too.

Good luck and don't be in a hurry. ;)

[Southside]

Getting a forester involved who not only can help you with your plan, but one who can help you recognize future valuable understory trees vs stunted, not going to improve if released trees.  The former you may want to work around, that latter you would be better off to remove which gives you a hole to drop your mature timber into.  Even with mature crowns you can often get a tree to come down and push through the immediate neighbors, it's the smash factor that happens once the crown is out that may hang you up at times, or may just make a mess so removing those before you drop the target tree will make things easier for you.  

[Parkranger]

The JD 4130 is a great tractor.  I used one a lot and ordered it new and the first thing I did is swap the rear wheels to widen the stance of the tractor.  If you get a winch for it that's an important thing to do to keep from tipping.  Also had an add on grapple to the stock bucket which was used all the time.

[lshobie]

Start at the back and work your way out, take the firewood and mature trees that you want to remove, unwanted species etc. when leaves are off its easiest.  Mature hardwoods are heavy and often don't need much help down and if the bush is thick you'll end up with collateral damage  on the way down so you'll end up with more firewood.

When you start furthest away you create a felling space to drop more trees.  Leave the branches heaped to encourage proper regrowth, don't cut the trimmings flat to the ground.  And you'll be surprised how many hung up trees will make their way to the ground while you eat your lunch and have a coffee.

[Don P]

When you get old you'll be firewooding closer to home too. Why was I cutting locust near the house in my 30's  :D.

[SwampDonkey]

My method is plan the work. The first thing I do is flag myself trails, since I have no big equipment, just a SxS with a winch, which can't go just anywhere on hummocky ground. Cut the trails in to the back of where I want to cut, so wide enough for the buggy. Then I work within 100 feet or so and thin out the junk. Mine is mostly 40-70 ft tall stuff I'm thinning. Fir and aspen, aspen is the 70 foot stuff. I find a natural hole or even sometimes have to drop in the trail and toss off the brush. It's just better sometimes than trashing some good trees. I cut firewood where it falls, so if one gets hung now and again, it's still coming down, 20" at a time. Trees are up to 16" diameter. If I had to bring down a log tree, which I don't do any of by the way, I'd give it a tug on the but end with the winch cable. A SXS isn't a skidder, so I don't put it through the abuse. ;D

[AndyVT]

Some of my woodlot is quite dense and figuring a starting place to cut is essential, so road planning and access to a landing come first. 
I  will start in the back of a lot if it is readily accessible but  much of it is too wet most of the year.

[SwampDonkey]

Mines pretty dense. I even spaced it all a few years ago. This is round two. Talking 6-8 feet between 40-70 foot trees. Because I thinned it before I have no undergrowth at all.

These are all the same height, fat ones and skinnier ones. Taking all the skinny ones and some bigger ones that haven't much green crown and defective ones. These are around 50 feet in here, 45 years old.



Need to get the next generation started.

[mudfarmer]

OP said they have a good grasp of physics, that's good. Pay attention to the physics when trying to winch down a hung tree. Ex. sometimes pulling the butt will just drive it further into the ground and get you nowhere. A snatch block up higher in a nearby tree can help to lift up on the butt while pulling backwards rather than down&back. Other times you can set your choker up high in the hung tree, this will try to winch the top over backwards, you can "bounce" them a little like this. 

I think it was Stephen Alford that did a lot of harvesting in thick stuff and was intentionally tipping them into leave trees real gently and then pulling down/out?? This can work pretty well also, rather than letting it fly and having it smash a bunch of branches off other trees from falling real far real fast. Watch out for the trees with wide forks, start learning how to rotate them while they fall so you aren't trying to fit 25ft wide top into a 6ft gap. Directional felling is fine if there's actually a direction to fell them and they are not super wide forked tops completely boxed in by leave trees ??? 

[SwampDonkey]

With the side by side, I corduroy wet crossings. I lay brush down first and rails with stubs I can poke into the ground so they don't roll. And often lay flat limbs on top as well, not always. I can travel in my woods from June to October.

[cutterboy]

  And you'll be surprised how many hung up trees will make their way to the ground while you eat your lunch and have a coffee.

This is true. More than once I've sat on a rock pondering on my options for getting a hung up tree down when suddenly with a "crack" and a "bang" it fell on it's own. 

[Magicman]

Years ago a felled a fairly large SYP tree.....but it didn't "fell".  It was sawed completely off and the only things keeping it off of the stump was wedges and my saw bar.  Yup, stuck tight and I did not have another saw nor any more wedges.

I removed the bar and walked out with the saw head.  The next week I walked back in with enough arsenal to make something happen, but it was not needed.  The tree was lying where it was supposed to fall and the bar and wedges were still on the stump.

[Stephen Alford]

   A great place to start while you are formulating your woodlot plan is to cut out and mark your property lines.  Makes for great neighbors. We usually cut out a trail just inside the line or on it if the adjacent landowners agree. Here wind and wind gusts play a huge role in directional felling .

 
   Getting your saw pinched happens to everyone . A 3in rachet strap and felling lever go along way to help.  If your in coppice growth a simple solution is a chocker and lever.

 

 

[Rhodemont]

JB855, your story sounds very very similar to mine other than I have many more years than 16 at it.  For 25 years I used my Yanmar 187D  (18hp) tractor to take firewood out of my 64 acres advancing my trails each year as I took down trees.  I could not move real big, 18"+, logs so worked smaller ones that I could, often going around those too big and often working the Yanmar a bit harder than I should have.  I then brought in a forester to generate a plan and got a JD4720 (60hp) tractor and a Norse winch...game changer.  My forester broke the forest into three stands each having different approaches to reach my goals of oak regeneration, recreation, wildlife habitat.  A very good read on management is  "USDA Northeastern Forest Regeneration Handbook". 

This winter I have been taking down big Ash killed by EAB and big Norther Red Oak to saw timbers for a barn.  I choose the trees to fell, clean up a path of the underbrush and obstacles for my tractor to get as close as I can from the trails to the tree.  Ideally I can back right up to the tree otherwise use the winch to pull it to me to skid out. As for the felling I try to pick the direction that will give highest chance of going all the way down with minimum collateral damage.  Most of the time they go down, particularly the big oaks, but many have got hung up.  Each of the hung up ones becomes a new challenge.  Sometimes I back right up to the butt and lift it with the tractor and pull it down, other times use the winch with or without a snatch block, and other times I go back to the house and hope it gets windy.  There is almost always some collateral damage which can be more difficult and take longer to clean up than actually getting the tree you wanted out leaving lots of firewood.  A friend lent me the book "To Fell A Tree" by Jeff Jepson. It is a very good read.  We think we know it all after a while and it brings back all the things we can loose track of or get lazy about.

As far as accomplishing my goals.  I used to think I would be able to manage the entire plan once I retired.  Not a chance, even with the fair amount of time I  spend.  Therefore, I will be working with my Forester to bring in professional help leaving me more than enough to hobby at.