Tooth de-setter

fluidpowerpro · July 28, 2023, 03:42:17 PM

Using a similar concept I saw here on the forum, I decided to build a tooth de-setter. I finished it today.
Because I have blades of various thicknesses, I made mine adjustable. I also made it so it mounts in a vice.
I tried it out on a few blades and it works good. Put the blade in, snug up the adjustment and go a few times around, I then snug it up even more and go around a few more times. Just need to paint it so it don't rust.

slider · July 28, 2023, 03:46:23 PM

I should have built one years ago.

JoshNZ · July 28, 2023, 04:47:25 PM

How much set can you knock out have you done any before an after measuring? I like the adjusting mechanism and the vice mount! Looks awesome

fluidpowerpro · July 28, 2023, 05:18:37 PM

I have not measured but visually I can see that the teeth look pretty straight. I however can see some evidence of the previous set. I think in order to remove all of the set completely, you would have to bend the tooth past center a little, and then it would spring back.
I think it could be done with special rollers that you would put on one side to get rid of left hand set. To get rid of the right hand set, you would reposition the roller to the other side.
One issue with that would be that you would end up bending the straight tooth as well in each direction after which you would replace the rollers again to get them all straight.
Not sure but I'm thinking it wouldn't be good to be bending the teeth more times than necessary as they might work harden??

etd66ss · July 28, 2023, 06:09:34 PM

What is the purpose of removing the tooth set?

terrifictimbersllc · July 28, 2023, 06:41:10 PM

1) Setters generally cant reduce set. Teeth get overset, say if you want .026 but you have .030. Reducing set, say back to .015-.020 let's you nudge it back to .026 .

2) With overset comes larger variability. Reducing set with one of these desetters will reduce set variability of teeth in what you start with and give you a more uniform final result.

It is easy with a setter to make oversetting mistakes. One of these desetters fixes it in a minute or two.

fluidpowerpro · July 28, 2023, 06:50:38 PM

Each time the blade is sharpened, you remove some material from the tooth. Because it's getting shorter, your set is also getting smaller, so you need to re-set to bring it back into spec. Typically the set is about 1/2 of the blade thickness. I only recently started sharpening and setting my own blades. I didn't have much trouble learning to sharpen. It was setting that was giving me fits because I was trying to re-set, hopefully in the same direction as the initial set. It seemed I was always getting mixed up or whatever, so now I decided to de-set and start with a clean plate. I'm going to set first, then sharpen because I have found that my drag type sharpener will leave a bur. With a bur there, it was hard to get an accurate set.
Probably told you more than you wanted to know....

fluidpowerpro · July 28, 2023, 06:53:28 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on July 28, 2023, 06:41:10 PM
It is easy with a setter to make oversetting mistakes. One of these desetters fixes it in a minute or two.

Never thought of that aspect of using a de-setter. Excellent point. Now I'm even happier I built one!

scsmith42 · July 28, 2023, 07:12:58 PM

I like the concept of a deserter for getting more life out of blades that have experienced a metal strike. Seems like they always have a tooth or few that are over-set.

tawilson · July 28, 2023, 11:58:11 PM

Quote from: fluidpowerpro on July 28, 2023, 05:18:37 PM
I have not measured but visually I can see that the teeth look pretty straight. I however can see some evidence of the previous set. I think in order to remove all of the set completely, you would have to bend the tooth past center a little, and then it would spring back.
I think it could be done with special rollers that you would put on one side to get rid of left hand set. To get rid of the right hand set, you would reposition the roller to the other side.
One issue with that would be that you would end up bending the straight tooth as well in each direction after which you would replace the rollers again to get them all straight.
Not sure but I'm thinking it wouldn't be good to be bending the teeth more times than necessary as they might work harden??

Why would you want to get rid of the set completely? Seems like just knocking the set down below what you normally set to would be enough.

Ljohnsaw · July 29, 2023, 01:50:59 AM

I don't think you want to completely remove the set nor do you want to set the wrong teeth (be off a tooth or two). That would be flexing the metal too much potentially weakening or work hardening the metal.

Mine from timing belt rollers including the tension mount with a screw adjustment.

Gere Flewelling · July 29, 2023, 06:34:14 AM

I have found that trying to remove too much set can cause the occasional tooth tip to snap off. If you can bring the set back to around .015" you can consistently reset to the .025-.028 that most desire. Some bands from the same batch will bother while others can tolerate the flexing with no issue. I find that before setting I mark the top of the first 4 or 5 right facing teeth in the gullet area starting at the weld, with a red or blue Sharpie. That way you can avoid confusion as the band comes around to the weld. On some bands the l-r-str. get out of sync at the weld. There are many tricks to learn when sharpening it seems. Good luck!

moodnacreek · July 29, 2023, 07:16:14 AM

If you got too much set why not just regrind and lose some?

moodnacreek · July 29, 2023, 07:21:11 AM

On a big rip saw after swaging you side dress to bring the over width teeth in line. That is removing the set where needed.

kelLOGg · July 29, 2023, 07:28:34 AM

FFP, That looks heavy-duty enough to straighten railroad iron. I like it! particularly the adjusting T-bolt. It must be heavy to pick up to put in the vise.

fluidpowerpro · July 29, 2023, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: tawilson on July 28, 2023, 11:58:11 PM
Quote from: fluidpowerpro on July 28, 2023, 05:18:37 PM
I have not measured but visually I can see that the teeth look pretty straight. I however can see some evidence of the previous set. I think in order to remove all of the set completely, you would have to bend the tooth past center a little, and then it would spring back.
I think it could be done with special rollers that you would put on one side to get rid of left hand set. To get rid of the right hand set, you would reposition the roller to the other side.
One issue with that would be that you would end up bending the straight tooth as well in each direction after which you would replace the rollers again to get them all straight.
Not sure but I'm thinking it wouldn't be good to be bending the teeth more times than necessary as they might work harden??
Why would you want to get rid of the set completely? Seems like just knocking the set down below what you normally set to would be enough.

I can see now that I still have a lot to learn about this subject and just because I built a de-setter does not mean I know a lot about it's use.

petefrom bearswamp · July 29, 2023, 12:26:25 PM

My neighbor now retired from sawing(as am I ) let me use his de setter that he got from WM.
Not nearly as rugged as your home built, fluidpro, it clamped very easily in my vise and worked very well.
My opinion is that as few times as possible to re set blades is the way to go.
I never worried too much about a tooth or two being either over or under set.
I used it on some blades that I had sharpened by an acquaintance which were way over set, 5 to 9 thousandths.
Thankfully I only had him do 5 blades.

fluidpowerpro · July 29, 2023, 01:29:57 PM

Quote from: kelLOGg on July 29, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
FFP, That looks heavy-duty enough to straighten railroad iron. I like it! particularly the adjusting T-bolt. It must be heavy to pick up to put in the vise.

I would like to say that I put hours and hours of design work into it, but the truth is I used some material I had laying around. The fact that where roller shafts mount being thick was of benefit because the long bore helped insure the shafts remained parallel after welding from the back side.

JoshNZ · July 29, 2023, 02:21:53 PM

I would say what you've built there is perfect for sorting out a band that is leaving stripes on timber, with a rogue tooth. I've never been able to find that tooth at the mill, never been able to spot it while I'm setting. If you drag it backwards through that tool and even knock 10% of the set off them I bet that'll be enough. As mentioned, only needs to bring the worst offender back inside the width you're setting to.

LeeB · July 29, 2023, 04:48:35 PM

Does it bring them all back to a a uniform set?

fluidpowerpro · July 29, 2023, 05:22:52 PM

So far I have just de-set a few blades so I have not tried that yet. I think it should based on what others are saying with similar units.

Crossroads · July 29, 2023, 11:58:11 PM

I like your design and might have to build one this winter when things slow down. I believe that I will move the pivot point closer to the rollers though, in order to increase the mechanical advantage. Thanks for sharing!

Chuck White · July 30, 2023, 07:36:28 AM

Quote from: LeeB on July 29, 2023, 04:48:35 PM
Does it bring them all back to a a uniform set?

Most of the bands that I handle have been set previously to between .025 & .030" set, and after they've been pulled through the rollers the set is pretty uniform and the average is .018"!
I have done a few in the past that were just run through the rollers, then sharpened, never set, and they cut pretty good and uniform!
So, in response to your question Lee, the teeth are then pretty uniform.

LeeB · July 30, 2023, 10:54:51 AM

Including the errant overset tooth or two or does it just de-set them the same amount it de-sets the rest? I guess I'm asking if all the teeth have the same set after passing through.

fluidpowerpro · July 30, 2023, 12:00:54 PM

Quote from: Crossroads on July 29, 2023, 11:58:11 PM
I like your design and might have to build one this winter when things slow down. I believe that I will move the pivot point closer to the rollers though, in order to increase the mechanical advantage. Thanks for sharing!

Im often looking for things to build in the winter also, so I was thinking about building a few this winter to offer for sale with an amount towards the forum.

I understand what your saying about the pivot point however I wouldn't move it much. There is plenty of force already. You would also change the relationship between the adjustment of the screw and roller gap.