Hire sawyer with portable mill or buy a mill?

[Yoter]

I've kicked around the idea of buying a mill for the past few years and posted about it a while back then other stuff got in the way, etc...  I'm at a point now where I need to make a decision on what to do.  I have 10-15 good sized locust trees in the hedgerow between my property and my neighbors that are going to come down.  Most of them are in the 40-60' range in height and from 16-20" diameter.  The bottom 6-8' feet of each tree will just go as firewood because its probably loaded with old barbed wire, nails and staples.  However, after that, each tree will probably yield 16-20'+ of usable log.  I fooled around with a couple of online calculators and using an average diameter of 18", average length of 16', and a total of 12 logs I get about 2500 BF of lumber.  I actually have a need for quite a bit of simple fencing-4x4x7 posts, spaced 8' apart, three or four boards 1x6x8 or 1x8x8 so I'd like to get as much of that material sawn out of the good logs as I can.  The question is, would it be more cost effective for me to hire a sawyer to come out and mill everything once the logs are on the ground, sorted and stacked (I have the equipment to move them), or should I buy a lower end mill such as a Woodland HM126 and mill it all myself?  I don't have a good sense of how long it should take to mill that many BF.  As an example around here, a guy is advertising full hydraulic mill services for $100 an hour with a four hour minimum.  

[WV Sawmiller]

   I am a portable sawyer so understand this may be a slightly biased answer but unless you are going to have a frequent recurring need to saw your logs into lumber I suggest you hire a portable miller to come saw your logs. He will come with  the equipment and experience to do the job right and you don't have to worry about the learning curve, maintenance, storage of equipment, depreciation, etc. JMHO. Good luck.

[SawyerTed]

Here is my dispassionate response.  Most cost effective would be hiring a sawyer and portable mill.   That is UNLESS you have more projects beyond the fence.  To saw those logs you could be 25-30% toward a hobby mill like you mention. Add in two or three projects and you can justify the mill.  

Here's my biased opinion.  Of course you need to buy a sawmill!  A sawmill is a necessity for any homestead, farm or suburbanite with a bad need to make sawdust!  :D

[terrifictimbersllc]

Even if you do have a need for a sawmill, the amount you pay to have someone else do this first job will pay you back in dividends for your future decisions.

[Yoter]

Thanks for the responses thus far!  I found another ad from a guy advertising portable hydraulic mill services who says he averages 1000-2000 BF of lumber per 10 hour day.  Does that sound about right?  

[Old Greenhorn]

Looking at the situation just as you presented it, you have a no-brainer decision to hire an experienced sawyer. You are looking at 1 to 2 days of milling work to saw that up. So even if you could get a mill, drop it in place, and have zero learning curve about blades, setup, reading logs, or funny sounds coming from the mill you could never do it in that time frame for close to the cost.
 The 'dirty little secret' we talk about a lot here is what comes after the mill winds up in your yard: the site prep, setup, support equipment and months and years of learning how to mill the species you have, then care for it later. Then you have mill care, choosing blade profiles, figuring out why one log does 'this' and the other log does 'that'. It can make you crazy (which explains why a lot of us act the way we do  ;D).
 But is IS a lot of fun and is quite rewarding. So the question remains with you as to what you want and/or need to get out of it.
 Ted's advice was pretty much as clear an answer as you will get. Terrific Timbers was also spot on. Watching somebody mill your logs teaches you an awful lot if you pay attention and may drive you one way or the other towards making a future purchase.
 Good Luck!

[SawyerTed]

he averages 1000-2000 BF of lumber per 10 hour day.  Does that sound about right?  

That sounds about right.  There's lots of variables.  One being the different mills sawyers have.  Log size and quality make a difference as does the kind of help you provide.  

[WV Sawmiller]

Thanks for the responses thus far!  I found another ad from a guy advertising portable hydraulic mill services who says he averages 1000-2000 BF of lumber per 10 hour day.  Does that sound about right?  

That sounds like a very doable average especially for any hydraulic mill. Actual yield rate will be determined as much or more by proper preparation of the logs, help and what type lumber you want as to the speed of his equipment.

Make sure the site is easily accessible to set up the mill, my loading arms are on the drivers side so I drive up or back up within 3' of the stack, the logs are closely trimmed of all limbs and knots, set them up on small logs as a track so they roll better and stay cleaner, center the logs in the stack instead of lining the ends up so the sawyer can center his mill one time on the stack and reduce log handling, be sure the logs are on level or slightly uphill of where the mill will be set up. Have all your dunnage, pallets, trailers, etc ready or in place so the sawyer can get set up, start sawing and leave as soon as the job is done.

Have your cut list ready to show the sawyer as soon as he gets there.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Get your logs ready, then see if one of the Sawyers can come by and look at them and give you an estimate. Or see if you can talk to their customers for a recommendation.

If it were me, I would not try to mill 16 foot logs to get 8 foot lumber, especially with Locust where are you can be dodging issues in the logs. Id make them 8 1/2 feet.

[DanMc]

Here's yet another opinion: It depends on how much time availability you have.  I had a Woodland HM126 for several years, and it was a wonderful experience.  But milling out logs on a manual mill takes a lot of time.  Then if the log is too heavy to turn by hand, you have to turn them with a tractor or other mechanical assistance, making it even more time consuming.  On top of that, you'll spend even more time acquiring and setting up the mill.  If the time consumption is no issue, then get an inexpensive manual mill.  The HM126 is an excellent choice.  

It's most cost-effective to get the low cost mill since the wood produced will be worth maybe half the cost of the mill, maybe more.  

If your time is valuable and you factor in the hourly rate of your time, then maybe the low cost mill is a lot more expensive than you think.

[OlJarhead]

Two things:

1st 1000-2000bf in a 10 hour day?  Sounds pretty slow to me, even for black locust.  Could be he works alone though.  However, even alone and in no rush I can usually mill 150bf/hr or better.  With the home owner/farmer whatever helping and equipment to move logs 300bf/hr is an easy enough target with logs like those.  Say 250-350 should be reasonable -- in big softwoods though, I've broken 500bf in an hour several times.  That takes a good crew and equipment, lots of 2xs and beams and good logs ;)  But I just want you to get an idea.

Next, I'd suggest going on YT (and not because I'm a Youtuber either) and watching some sawyers run their mills to get an idea of how it works (there is a link in my profile and others so easy to find from here).

As for buying a mill, I was just filming that very thing today!  It's sorta one of those hard to say definitively things.  Yes, it's worth buying a mill BUT only if you plan on using it more than just this one time otherwise it's likely going to sit in a field being lonely and wasting away (and if you just though "not on my farm!" then buy the mill ;) ) see what I did there?

Hiring someone like us to come out is very very cost affective and that guys $100/hr is more than fair!  I was charging that a couple years ago and if I go back remote at all this year (unlikely as it may be) I'd be asking no less than $125/hr.

However, if you can get everything milled that you have in one weekend at $100/hr and milling only 6 hours a day (which is pretty normal I think -- though I've been known to go 8 hrs) you'd be looking at around $1500 after delivery, mileage etc etc....a new Wood-Mizer LX25 is $4600 with 10 bands...you do that math :D

There are cheaper mills of course but they are cheaper, IMO, for a reason ;)

Cheers
Erik 'The Old Jarhead'.

[WV Sawmiller]

   If you are asking for the economics - hire the sawyer.

   If you just want a mill - buy the mill and make something nice for your wife out of the wood you saw to keep her on board.

[Crossroads]

  If you are asking for the economics - hire the sawyer.

  If you just want a mill - buy the mill and make something nice for your wife out of the wood you saw to keep her on board.

This is basically what I tell people all the time. I also tell people that you can hire someone like me about 35 days for the price of the mill I have and I can saw a lot of lumber in 35 days.

[peakbagger]

I have friend with a "portable mill" but it's a lot more practical for the both of us from me to haul the logs over to his place. I did recently need to hire someone with a portable Lucas mill to cut up some very large logs too big for his mill to break them down into something he could handle. His production rate is much higher at his house than we would ever have at my site as he has a tractor with forks and plenty of space plus no need to set up and level or take down at the end of the day. I always take the scrap unless he wants it home with me. 

[dougtrr2]

I hired and sawyer for a one time project and it was the best money I spent on my hobby.

Have everything ready to go when he gets there.  Keep the logs clean.  Have plenty of good help, it gets tiring moving and stacking all that lumber.  Not sawing the bottom 6-8' will probably save you a bunch in blade fees.  Consider painting  tthose pieces so they don't get mixed in accidentally.

Doug in SW IA

[Nebraska]

Buy the mill, sawdust is therapeutic....

[scsmith42]

On a side note, what species locust?

The reason that I ask is that black and yellow locust are both rot resistant.  White and honey locust are a different genus and not rot resistant.

[AndyVT]

Over a period of 25 years, I had a local sawyer come to my home maybe half a dozen times to saw my logs. I tailed for him and it was a good experience but I swore I would never own a mill. Fast forward to the present and I just bought a HM126 Woodlander mill and couldn't be happier. I have 50 acres of timber, equipment to handle it and projects that need wood plus I am finding that there is a ready market for any surplus I have. It's a no brainer for me but your circumstances should dictate what you do.

[Brad_bb]

As SCSMITH42 asks, what kind of locust?

It's a question of how much would you have to mill over time?  What kind of extra indoor storage space do you have?  I would keep it in to keep it from deteriorating - facing paint, dry rotting belts, fuel going bad, rust etc.
How much extra time do you have for learning?  Remember that milling is not only cutting the log, but figuring out how to dispose of the bark, sawdust, and slab/scrap wood.  I cut all my flitches into firewood and stack on a palletized rick.  You also spend time leveling the log, re-adjusting, rolling, cleaning around the mill, refilling the lube tank....  You will spend more time on all that other stuff versus milling.  A manual mill is a lot more work too than a hydraulic mill.  Hiring it done will be faster and cheaper, even doing it several times in the future. You need to do enough yourself to pay back the mill and your time etc if you buy one.

For example, I was planning to buy a 12 inch jointer to flatten one side of my wood that comes back from the kiln.  Then I can plane it with my 20" planer.  I would have had to rig up a phase converter for 3ph.  It would also occupy floor space which is at a premium.  I looked at how much wood I've milled (jacket lumber) in the past 9 years which is about 12K BF I'd estimate. I had priced out the KD cost, then I decided to price out having it machined right out of the kiln.  I found a shop not far from the kiln with a 2 sided facer (jointer planer combo), plus he will straight line rip the dimensional lumber.  I think he is charging me .40-.50/BF or so.  It's real reasonable. 

This will be more wood than I can probably ever use and I don't plan to do it as a business.  So I'm no longer going to get a large jointer.  I may get a smaller 8" for woodworking, but NOT for flattening all my rough lumber off the mill.  The real savings here is the space inside that does not get taken up, plus all the capital costs.  Sometimes limiting what you do can be a smart move.  

Let us know what you decide.