RAS / miter / table saw options

[BeeBazaar]

I have an older dewalt radial arm saw.  I have it set up in my shop on a 18' bench.  I love the set up.  But i have trouble with the RAS keeping itself from moving.  the head constantly moves like 2 minutes from 6 out of 90 degrees of the stock.  sometimes the whole arm will move a couple degrees right.  it is frustrating, but it is very handy.  There are few options for these saws new that are not in the several thousand dollar range.  Im worried a used one will present the same issues.  I was looking at replacing it with a Bosch Glide, Delta / ridgid Cruzer or the Makita.  But even these seem to have some deflection potential.  During a review i was watching, the guy said cabinet and furniture makers use a table saw anyway.  I am in the process of building some cabinets, closets and drawers.  I "google" stuff to back this claim up but don't see anything to support that, though it does make sense I suppose.

Now i'm thinking i'd be better off to cut it to a bit long on the RAS and then use the Table saw to finish the cut.  
I have small sleds and a stock fence, so I think i may better off putting funds towards a fence and sled.  Then I see nice saws with fences already done on them for the prices of the some of the fences alone (hers looking at you incra) 

so what kinds of suggestions does anyone have?  
do cabinet / furniture makes rely more on a TS than a miter or RAS?
My table saw is a ridgid R4512
I've never built a big fence or sled.  I was looking at the VCS fences, Incra Fences, bigeye Henry
There was a king wood working ultimate sled you can buy as is or the plans.  Not sure of the best direction to take is all...

[rusticretreater]

First of all, do what works best for you. There is no right way or wrong way as long as it works. Cutting long doors or sides on a table saw is of course more difficult.  You need space, infeed and outfeed tables. A RAS is for cutting those long things.

Since most saws have a detent for holding common angles such as 90 degrees, it follows that the mechanism is slipping.  Maybe a set screw needs to be tightened, something has worn, etc.  I would have disassembled it at the first sign of trouble.

[beenthere]

Friend had the DeWalt RAS, and was not happy with it. He switched it out for the Rockwell Delta model 33-267 which is same as I have. There are pins that lock it at 90 deg, as well as at other common angles. 

Not sure if that switch is an option for you, but has to be frustrating to not be able to trust the DeWalt to maintain its settings. 

[Larry]

I've been down this road. This is my experience.

First I built a large table saw sled. It had the capacity to make wide and accurate crosscuts. I could also crosscut long boards fairly easily. The downside was the size. I got tired of putting it on and taking it back off plus you need a place to put it to keep from tripping over it. With a complicated project I might take it off and put it back on a dozen times.

Shortly after Bosch came out with there SCMS I got one of those. Thought I had died and went to heaven. I could do good work with it but in reality it was more of a carpenters saw than something for cabinet work.

Went through two RAS's. The first was a 12" Rockwell and the last one was a big old DeWalt. I spent lots of time and money restoring the DeWalt to better than new. It had the long arm so plenty of capacity and power. Both were excellent saws.

I was at a friends shop and used his Unisaw with a sliding table attachment. I knew I had to have one. Got one for my Unisaw and loved it. It does not have the crosscut capacity of either the sled or the RAS's but is adequate for my uses. After about a year of using it all the time I decided to send the Bosch and DeWalt down the road to reclaim the space they occupied. If I had the space I would have kept the DeWalt.

I did make a little side trip and bought a Festool TS50 track saw. It was great for breaking down sheet goods but not so good on solid wood. I was not impressed with the saw and sent it down the road also.

So....my choice would be a sliding table attachment for your table saw. I like spending other folks money!

[Andries]

"Mystery Mitres" are super frustrating to anyone high standards, for sure.
How much accuracy do you need, or want, or afford ?

If you're needing super exact 45 degree cuts on expensive kitchen counter tops, a sliding table attachment for a SawStop cabinet saw will get the job done, day after day. But, if you take on that kind of work only once in a blue moon, a Festool tracksaw will do a fine job of it.
 
If my Bosch mitre saw is pulled out to full extension, the blade will 'flex' to left and right by 1/16". But that's sideways hand pressure when the blade is cantilevered out from the fence by what, 14"? If the blade was spinning, centrifugal force will make the blade 'stand up' and probably eliminate most of that anyway. Also, most of my cuts on the mitre saw are in narrow woods; window trim or door casing, so slightly inaccurate angles are tolerable.

When I was a teenager, the Craftsman RAS my Dad owned was the tool of choice. Until the day when I turned the head sideways to rip down a 1x6 to make trim pieces. It pinched and turned a 2" wide piece of pine into a javelin that almost went through the garage wall. Haven't been a huge RAS fan since.

BeeB; for the best bang for your buck, here's my suggestion. Keep the RAS at 90 degrees and use it to 'dimension' your stock. Make several sleds for your Rigid table saw to give you super accurate 45's, 22.5's and yes, a 90 degree sled too. Get a heavy, wide and expensive saw blade and you'll be making fine, splinter free and accurate angle cuts with equipment you already own.
For the cost of a premium sawblade!
Wishing you the best in your cabinet making projects.

[BeeBazaar]

Thanks All-

I have tried to several times to correct the slop to no avail.  and there is nothing to hold it at 90 from what I recall.  I've never tried to use it for anything other than 90 degree cross cuts.  I made a few drawers last week and i think I just had enough at that point.  No more until I have a better method.

Perhaps the sleds will be my best bet.  I guess a nice fence doesn't really do a whole lot in this situation vs the sled? are sleds typically preferred to using the fence?   IDK, i'm just curious as to the thought process of some cabinet makers.  I have seen some neat sleds.  I even saw one that sat at 45 to the blade so you never had to tilt the blade of the table saw and I the more i think about it the more I like that idea too.

I have a sliding table on my T3 shaper, that I have never used yet, though I plan to this summer.  I have seen sliding tables on saws and never used one.  But everyone loves them.  why is it so preferred to a sled or a nice fence?  I imagine there is no binding like could potentially happen on a fence and no slinging pieces either.

 I have a ridgid tracksaw.  No festool I know, but thus far i love that thing.  


oh and Larry- I agree!  I love being in that boat haha

[Don P]

Don't feel special Andries. I sent a javelin across a doorway just as my boss was coming in  .
If the RAS is set up permanent for 90 you can put struts on the arm to hold it. We turned one into a panel saw by permanently building a 4' 90 degree "bridge" with the craftsman half round guides on it and the saw hung at cutoff height above the table, the only thing original was the head but it was a good 90* saw for cabinet panel processing.

[rusticretreater]

On a sliding table, everything moves together as a unit and on nice smooth bearings.  With the sled, you have to push it and things can still go wrong.  The bigger the piece, the more you have to push.

[RPF2509]

Get rid of the RAS.  They constantly need to be resquared.  Used one always have some slop - thats why they are being sold.  I use a 12" sliding chop saw and a table saw for all my wood working.  Great combination (and way safer)- my RAS gave me constant grief and wasted wood.  I used to work in a commercial cabinet shop and it was tough adjusting to less accurate cuts.  RAS is ok for carpentry but inadequate  for cabinetry.  The RAS can save space, but I used to use my two machines (table saw was on a mobile base) in a single bay garage.  

[beenthere]

RPF
Not true. One thing about my Rockwell Delta RAS is how it has maintained "square" over many years. I check it for square before any precision cuts, and it has always been smack on the money. Sorry to disagree. 

[BeeBazaar]

So a sliding table is almost a sled on bearings instead of tracks?

[RPF2509]

Ah Rockwell - a quality product!   My RAS was a craftsman 60's vintage and most of the ones I see for sale are Craftsmans.  You get what you pay for and paying for quality is usually worth it.  Come to think of it the RAS in the shop I used to work were all Rockwell.