Skidder or Tractor

[Ironwood]

ianw,

Just curious as to the comment on the light rear axle on the Kubota, I am concerned about this on an upcoming purchase. I dont like what i see as for rear housings and axles on MOST brands. I have uddy working on several JD's 4120, 755(mine), and one other I cant remember the #. I am not impressed at all. That is why I am looking at an older unit (see "compact Tractor" thread), to boot many of the drives on the back of the newer stuff is pretty complex and hard to get o, shiels covers all sort of FUFU. I really want an older heavier tractor, that is why I am leaning toward an shuttle shift VS hydro drive. I would like to be able to quickly split the tractor and work on it.

Can you give me some reccommendations on a heavier older Kubota? Where is your experience from?


Ironwood

[woodmills1]

the skidder type blade is much more usefull in the woods, as well as more manuverable.  the FEL and trailer made for hard turn arounds in the woods

that said, the FEL with bucket is much more usefull around the yard and the mill.  I also have a CAT backhoe so went with the skidder blade for the tractor

the Payeur forestry package includes belly pan, engine guards, FOPS, hydraulic cooler, rear chains and front winch and blade

[pineywoods]

ironwood, I went through the same thinking. You might want to take a look at the heavier industrial kubotas. Most compact tractors are designed for yard/garden type work. I bought a used kubota M4700, 50 hp 2 wheel drive. Shuttle, 8 fwd 4 rev. Had a bunch of guys who do nothing but front end loaders install an aftermarket fel, canadian made E Z on. I spent a whole day with them, picking their brain. They say most of the broke housings break right where the bell housing tapers down to the tranny housing, right behind  where the fel frame bolts on. When I told them that my tractor would be used as a woods and sawmill support machine, they added 2 pieces of heavy wall 2X2 square tubing from the loader frame back to the rear axle. 2 big U bolts around the axle to the tubing. Loaded tires, forks on the fel, logging winch on the back, lots of downright abuse. the only problem has been a flaky ignition switch.

[Ironwood]

I hear you on the more "industrial" type units. I was thinking either a L35 or L39 and in GREEN possibly a 990 w/ a CX300 loader which seem much nicer than the 430 / 460,....... loader (which seem to "flip" flop around alot on the upper arms). I also have a Ford 2120 in my sights with a BushHog loader, and a Ford 1920.

Ironwood

[thecfarm]

My 2120 bolted all the way back to the rear axle,another reason we brought it. The NH TC40 is the same way too.

[weimedog]

 Have two tractors that are primarily farm tractors but do in a pinch....and that "pinch" seems to happen 40 or 50 times every fall. This fall over 100 times. One thing that my 1066 brings is...your not going to believe this...maneuverability! I don't have to cut as much of a road/trail to my wood when those foot brakes allow me to pivot and the power / weight allows me to pull the logs around those tree's.



 





 

[mad murdock]

Wow weimdog! I just put 2+2 together from your pic you posted in the thread on the chainsaw board. You drug those 3 loads you got last monthe with that tractor? Hat's off to you, that was no small feat! 8)

[weimedog]

 :D yes I did.  :D It wasn't so bad, only 1/4 mile drag from the woods to the landing. Just one or two muddy cross slopes, rest was OK. Hard part was having to go to work at 3:00 everyday just when I was getting moving! Thanks BTW

[Cutting Edge]

 

 

My little 27 HP does more than ever intended, runs all day on 8 gal GAS.  If you work smart, have(or build) the right attachments, etc, a little tractor is a valuable tool, even for woodlot management.  IMO a 2 wheel drive will do alot w/ chains and weight, get one with a differential lock.  Mine will go places that are scary enough, and travel places a tractor was never intended (4wd can get ya ina bind fast).  Nice thing is, it's 5ft wide and will just about fit between anything.  I work with what I have...build it to suit needs. 

You might find yourself an older tractor at a great bargain that will work for you, just dont get in a hurry.  Learn what it'll do first, and never take your mind off the task at hand.  It olny takes a second on anything (tractor, skidder, saw, etc.) to end up hurt or worse.

[mad murdock]

 

My little 27 HP does more than ever intended, runs all day on 8 gal GAS.  If you work smart, have the right attachments, etc, a little tractor is a valuable tool, even for woodlot management.  IMO a 2 wheel drive will do alot w/ chains and weight, get one with a differential lock.  Mine will go places that are scary enough,  but doesn't go places a tractor was never intended (4wd can get ya ina bind fast).  I make what I have work...build it to suit needs.

You can do a decent job with a tractor. Way back when my older brother and I began logging full time, (in our teens), we hired our skidding. Then when it got difficult to line up a machine, plus we wanted a bigger piece of the pie, we bought a farmall super h. Drug out about 5 truckloads a month. Went from that to a dozer w/loader and a dray. Then from that to a new iron mule. If you got the $$ and the need to justify it, no comparison, IMHO, skidder wins every time.
You are doing pretty good w/that 2wd tractor, but with no ROPS, be careful! Don't want to see another casualty! My 59hp Garrett diesel skidder burns mebbe 5-6 gal per day.

[weimedog]

having read this posting and getting a better flavor of the discussion. couple of things come to mind..nothing will beat a purpose built piece of equipment for a job...skidders obviously are exactly that. When considering tractors...I have to say there is no replacement for displacement! A few things I have learned over the last 20 plus years relative to old farm tractors. As Mad Murdock has pointed out ...rops is something you want. Snag a log at the wrong time and you can pull a tractor over on yourself. Out here seems like every few years that happens to farmers like me using ag equipment in logging applications. Also I can tell you every hose, linkage (throttle!), wire,  light and corner of a cab will be tested by brush, limbs etc. My poor international 1066 doesn't have many lights left. I'm considering getting a tractor with no cab (Rops as a bar).

As far as those 4x4 utility tractors..very handy for smaller stuff (under 24inchs) and dry ground..I've pulled an awe full lot with my 35hp 4x4 compact (Massey 1433 built by Iseiki in Japan, typical of the type). Problem is they aren't built heavy enough for sustained logging ops..I've bent everything related to the three point on that little tractor trying to pull too much. Also when there is mud they simply don't have the ground clearance once the ruts get deep enough to get to hard pan for traction after the 10nth trip. AND last but not least they are about the most expensive option when you consider weight/power per dollar because they appeal to a larger market and bring top dollar. A larger 60-70hp "obsolete" 2wd farm tractor with double ring chains is both cheaper and way more capable than those compacts when the logs get larger, the mud gets deeper, and the hills steeper. Something like a 7000 class ford,  or like an old 3020 John Deere in that class HP. You can find suitable tractors for well under 10k...sometimes under 5k! And if you beat them..your not out much.

As far as those "bigger" 2wd farm tractors...I love my 1066! About a $10,000 tractor used and 100plus HP and 12,000lbs with 18.4x38 rear tires & double ring chains...but its really too big. Easy power and good brakes along with a very robust 3point make it very effective and I burn maybe 5 gallons a day idling out the biggest logs I have. Just I really need a bit smaller machine, a winch and more logging friendly attachments to be more productive. I'm considering retiring the 1066 back to all farm activities and finding something more suited ...a tractor in the 70 to 90hp class with no cab, at least 34in rear rubber; maybe 38's. Bet I find one for around 5k that will work just fine..

Something that still has use in the farming operations, our main deal here:
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6560831&
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6609622&

Last but not least, for the price of a good compact you can start considering the larger true ag 4x4's in the 70plus hp range.....another story! Yet again a level above the 2wd tractors..! For the 15k class you could have a real pulling machine! Something like: http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6647701&;

[John Mc]

Weimedog makes some good points, and sums up the situation nicely.

I do my firewood harvesting with a 33 HP compact tractor (NH TC 33D). This is not really "logging": Since it's all going to be blocked to 16" lengths eventually anyway, I can cut the tree to whatever length works to minimize residual stand damage, and stays within the capability of my tractor. I'm also not skidding long distances: it's all on my own land, land I own jointly with a group, or on friend's land. I'm not making a living at this, so if conditions aren't right for my tractor, I can generally wait until they are. I can still drop trees, and in most cases can buck and split them where they fall, if I can't get the tractor close to bring them out. In fact, most of my processing is done at the closest point on the trail to where a tree dropped. The logging winch has made a huge difference in reaching trees, and in protecting my tractor from damage.

What I have works for my needs. I already had the compact tractor for other reasons anyway. I sometimes wish I'd gone the next frame size up (and to a +/- 40 HP tractor). Even then it would still be a compact, given my other uses for it. On some of the things I do with it, a larger sized tractor would be a problem.

If i were buying a tractor primarily for my own version of logging, it would be a bit bigger. If I were buying equipment that would be used only for logging, and needed to be efficient enough to make a living at it (or at least make some significant income), it would be much larger and/or probably wouldn't be a tractor at all.

[mad murdock]

Great points weimdog and JohnMc. My only additional .02 worth to add is that there is a lot of used logging iron available for little $$. My skidder was $3,000 as is. It ran, but not great. I did manage to squeeze in about 15 truckloads of logs with it before I spent an additional $600 fixing the engine up. (granted, if you aren't turning wrenches yourself you would not get off that cheap).
Nonetheless for well under 10k there are many options. A guy just needs to put down on paper all the things he will use a machine for, then match up a machine to best fit those needs.  I am of the persuasion that if I look at used equipment, i would rather have 2 or 3 pieces of equipment that are more adept at 1 or 2 things, than try to use 1 for everything.  FWIW