Hey Everbody.
I was hoping you guys could chime in about this tree i've got on the edge of my property. It forked maybe 25 feet up (?my eyeball measurements skills are poor?) and both sides of the fork ripped off during hurricane sandy.
This tree is right next to my shed and my neighbor's fancy patio. Half of the fork already destroyed part of his nice fencework. The question is, what do i do with the remaining trunk?
I've done some chainsaw work but i wouldn't say i have a ton of experience felling. I considered roping the top and running the rope to a nearby tree and putting tension on it to direct it away from my neighbor's yard when it comes down. It's a pretty straight trunk with no limbs to weight it in any particular direction, so a simple hinge type cut might direct it regardless of roping i would think. However, in my more sober moments, i realize i probably shouldn't do this on my own.
There's a pic below. Any advice? I expect "don't do it" to be a popular response. :D Also, i was wondering what you guys think a tree service would charge to come take it down. I would want to keep the wood, so all they would have to do is drop it safely on my property. Do you think they would drop it in one piece or climb it and take off sections?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E13.jpg)
Thanks a lot,
Joe
Looks like a rope with tension in the direction you want it, along with a properly aimed notch should do the trick.
I'd say if your not comfortable doing it call some tree guys and get some quotes. Your neighbor may be interested in the outcome as well and maybe willing to chip in?
Yes, I would think that you can handle that with a long rope and a proper hinge cut.
Not having the top on it makes a big difference in how it will react. You should be able to do it with the suggestions previously given.
You will probably have 2 people one sawing,one pulling. How ever many you have make sure all work at the SAME speed. Don't have one guy doing 90mph and one doing 35 mph.
Thanks for the comments guys.
It kills me to think about hiring someone to do it... something that could literally take 10mins. If it takes out my shed i wouldn't care too much. But doing damage to my neighbor's property really has me worried.
I dunno... it seems *soooooooo* easy. But i'm guessing this guy thought the same thing :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpzvvACN8E
Don't do it like that.
Can your neighbor help?
Doesn't look like a big problem, just you don't want to get it wrong (high value targets).
What I would do is set the rope, and just take up the slack, no tension on the rope at this point, it's just sitting there.
Then make your normal cut, tap in a couple of wedges in case it sits back on your saw. Concentrate on getting the hinge just right, that's what aims and controls the fall. Once you are happy with that, wander around the long (safe) way to the winch, and haul the tree over.
You can use a trusted buddy on the winch if you prefer, but no winching until you are happy with the cuts. Take your saw out, step back, and give him the pull signal then. You don't want to still be sawing while he's putting pressure on the tree.
As long as your scarf and hinge are cut correctly, there is then only one way it can go.
Ian
Quote from: thecfarm on January 02, 2013, 11:35:00 PM
Can your neighbor help?
That would be ideal - unfortunately i'm not on the friendliest terms with the guy so i don't think i could approach him about it. He's a pretty nice guy but there's been a little friction at times.
Thanks for the breakdown Ian. I really feel like i can do it - but i often feel that way right before i completely screw something up :D
Before i do anything I'll probably call in a tree service and see what they want to charge. We had a service take down 2 trees a few months back and we liked the guys and the prices were fair. I'm also curious to ask them if they sell any logs from trees they take down if they come across something nice. Our 2 trees went straight into the chipper (that was before my milling obsession began). One was a pine, not sure what the other was.
If you are not sure of your abilities, a few bucks to the tree guys might be a wise investment. It shouldn't be that expensive, even if they had to climb and piece it down, it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.
:D on the video ;) at least when he was done the saw was warmed up enough to idle 8)
err on your situation be sure to take video 8)
Buying logs from a tree service,they should just about give them to you. They might have some steel in them too. Big trees are a bother to them to get rid of.
Its hard to tell what direction your going to drop it. It also seems to lean slightly up hill. If you use a rope to pull it be shure to get it as high up on the trunks as you can and as you cut it keep steady pressure on the rope. Don't get it rocking back and forth or the holding wood could snap.
As Ian said , do not forget your HINGE.....very important not to go thru your tree, follow what Ian wrote you.
What ever you chose, record video tape it just in case. :)
Quote from: Reddog on January 03, 2013, 09:49:19 AM
What ever you chose, record video tape it just in case. :)
I sense an overwhealming desire to see me clobber my shed :D
Nope! would like to see it go perfect for you.
Also if you hire a service it is nice to see how they attack it.
But just in case.
REMEMBER TREE SERVICE IS INSURED AND HAS LOTS MORE RESOURCES THAN YOU!!! ;D I would at least talk to neighbor let him know what is going on :o You may get a deal if they have some slack time and it is not a priority must due now type job. ;) If you are willing to cut it up on the ground etc may be much cheaper too. :new_year: :new_year:
Too bad there's not a power line close to it.
A female friend had a sick tree near a powerline in her yard.. Called the power co. to come take it down. They said it was not an concern to them, they were not going to fool with it.
I coached her, She called back said she was just going to have to do it hersellf, but really wanted some advice as to if she should cut the left side first or the front or back side first.
They came out and took the tree down for her. ;)
Quote from: Cypressstump on January 03, 2013, 04:28:08 PM
Too bad there's not a power line close to it.
A female friend had a sick tree near a powerline in her yard.. Called the power co. to come take it down. They said it was not an concern to them, they were not going to fool with it.
I coached her, She called back said she was just going to have to do it hersellf, but really wanted some advice as to if she should cut the left side first or the front or back side first.
They came out and took the tree down for her. ;)
:D excellent
truth is, after the last 2 years with all the crazy storms in the north east, there are very few trees near any powerlines in my neighborhood.
if i had my ridiculous wooden sawmill (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,62806.0.html (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,62806.0.html)) operational when sandy destroyed my neighborhood i could have gathered up a boatload of logs just from driving around my block. i'm sure we'll get more storms... problem is we're running out of trees over here :D
A few years ago a storm topped a neighbors tree much like yours. Said neighbor asked me and another neighbor who he should call to cut it the rest of the way down. The other neighbor and I looked at each other and said we could easily do it as there was a nice alley of trees to drop it in that protected his house on one side and garage on the other. We took a ladder and put a rope on the top of the tree. Both neighbors pulled on rope thru a snatch block while I cut.
Since there was no way to screw it up I must have rushed my wedge cut because I managed to somehow make it land on his garage. It took real skill to hit the 6 inch gap between the trees but fortunately no one was hurt and it didn't do much damage (few shingles and a busted board) and we all took it in stride. Whenever anyone asks me to cut a tree for them I just tell them that story and they move on.
If it were me, I would use this as an opportunity to talk with your neighbor and build a relationship with him. Maybe he is up for the cut.
Good luck.
Dave
Oh man, that's a rough story Dave. Glad nobody was hurt.
And that's exactly what i'm afraid of. No matter how easy something looks, there's always a way to screw it up. And i'm an expert at finding that way ;)
I'll share a related story at the risk of embarassing myself:
There was a nice pine next to my driveway when i moved into my house. It was maybe 10" diameter and stood up ~10' above my roof. It was 8 feet from the house and about 20 feet away from where the powerlines enter my house. It was a nice tree but it had to go. It dripped sap on the cars and the roots clogged my sewer outlet requiring emergency plumber visits twice (not cheap).
Eventually my wife and i decided we could take it down ourselves. I was afraid of hitting the powerlines so i had the bright idea to put a ladder against the tree, climb 15' up, and cut the top half off. The logic was that there was no way the top half could make it all the way over to the power lines. In this regard, i was correct :)
I had some notion that the tree would rebound when the top came tumbling off, so i roped the ladder to the tree for some stability. I think that's the only reason i didn't end up in the hospital :D As the top started coming off i felt everything start to sway, i dropped the saw, grabbed the tree and somehow managed to stay on the ladder as it went bobbing back and forth and branches from above went whizzing past my face as they fell. That might have been the dumbest thing i've ever done.
A few months later i happened to be looking through my chainsaw manual for some specs on the bar/chain to get a replacement. I saw a picture of *exactly* what i had done and a huge warning never to do it. :P .... reading the manual... it's a good idea. Also, common sense ... not always so common.
I guess all's well that ends well. We got the tree down, cut it up, chipped the small stuff and the town took away some of the other stuff. Now we can park in that part of the driveway again. All it cost me was a near death experience 8)
I'll tell you like I tell others-when in doubt, hire a pro. If there is a doubt, there is no doubt! As written before, you could get a tree service there just to lay it on the ground for much less than a couple hundred $$$.
I'd go with a tension rope, a couple burly helpers (with some common sense), and cut it off in manageable pieces, say 4-5 feet in length each. I'd do it for you, but it's a bit far to drive.
Its only 25' tall, i'd get a 12 to 14' push pole, and have somebody push it over while i sawed it down.
In most cases like this i always pushed and sawed it myself. I pushed with my left arm while sawing with my right hand. I probably used this technique a couple 100 times a day when felling.
10 years with a tree service, but the 100 miles is a bit far to go. That would be an easy one to climb and "huck" it off in pieces. Or pull it over with a well placed rope, a good cut, and a couple of guy to do the pulling.
As mentioned before though, a tree service would be able to drop that for less than $200. Maybe lower than that. No clean up, no hauling, no chipping? It's a 30 minute job max. That would include some chat time with the arborist, and a couple of cold non-alcoholic drinks. ;)
A saw, a wedge and 5 minutes to have it down just where you want it.
Quote from: beenthere on January 03, 2013, 07:06:41 PM
A saw, a wedge and 5 minutes to have it down just where you want it.
Unless there is more in the way than the pic shows. ;)
Quote from: clww on January 03, 2013, 05:31:14 PM
If there is a doubt, there is no doubt!
This is the response i was expecting and i think it's the most reasonable way for me to look at it. Just hate to hire someone if i don't have to.
I just took another look at the tree. It's quite tight around and behind the base because the shed is right next to it and the neighbor's fence is right behind it. Also, it is leaning uphill (towards the shed) a bit as someone pointed out.
If it was only my personal property at risk i would certanly go for it. But my neighbor's patio is probably a few hundred thousand dollars of work... The side to the left is a 2 level retaining wall about 20 feet high and there's some masonary pillars here and there with light fixtures on them. If i crush something important over there it's going to cost a fortune to repair. That's why i'm leaning towards hiring an insured tree service.
My hope is that they cut me a good deal since all they have to do is drop it and leave. Like Slab Slicer said, it should take them no time at all.
If it's in range of a high value target then hiring a pro (with insurance) does make sense. Lack of space behind the tree may mean you need to bore the back cut, or do some sort of yoga move to reach, or something else a little more tricky.
It still doesn't seem like an overly tricky situation, assuming there is clear space to drop it into. Just not one you want to make a mistake on. ;)
90% of the work on that sort of removal would be the clean up after it's on the ground. If you just need it laid on the ground that's only a few minutes work. Should be whatever the guys travel and minimum charge happens to be.
Ian
My cousin actually has a tree company in your area. If you would like I can give you his info and you could contact him.
Quote from: ArborJake on January 04, 2013, 01:25:58 PM
My cousin actually has a tree company in your area. If you would like I can give you his info and you could contact him.
Thanks Jake. I have a guy coming by this weekend that i've used before. This service is right down the street from my house and it's gonna be a quick job so i'm hoping he gives me a sweet deal. If he gives me a crazy quote maybe i'll message you for more info.
You should not have a problem using a rope/cable/winch pulling it and a hinge cut. Just be mindful of the wind direction.
:) I've enjoyed this post 8) Seem's like lowpolyjoe has a plan and got plenty of Idea's I swear he has made a impressive saw mill Have you all seen it Hope I'm not out of line here. Good men are hard to find lowpolljoe and you seem like one of them :P :new_year:
Thanks a lot Migal! I did a little work on my diy saw mill today, in fact. Couldn't test it though.
I got a reasonable quote from my tree guys and they're gonna drop that pine for me. As much as i want to try it, i can't take the risk.
I did, however, drop a much smaller tree in my yard today. It had been damaged in the storm as well but i forgot all about it. Bummer to take it down because it held up one side of our hammock :( But it was never a healthy tree because of shade issues (i think) and the damage took off the bulk of the green.
Good news is that i got some practice in. Fell exactly where i wanted, directed with a hinge. I guess it was sort of cheating because the tree was very top heavy in that direction anyway ;) but i have to get lucky sometimes :D
I filmed it but haven't checked the footage... if it came out ok i'll post it on youtube and ask for feedback. I'd like to get some solid technique down.
Bad news - as i was taking the stump low, i hit a piece of metal pipe sticking out of the ground. Apparently the tree grew up around it ??? Crazy. It took a few cutters off my chain. Gotta order something new this week so hopefully i can do some more work next weekend.
Good call on bringing in a pro. I've been in those tight areas as most have, with high value targets. A lack of funds prevented me from bringing anyone in, but i got lucky and didn't hit anything. But luck only holds out for so long. Glad to hear you got it done!
Quote from: lowpolyjoe on January 04, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
But my neighbor's patio is probably a few hundred thousand dollars of work... The Quote from: lowpolyjoe on January 06, 2013, 10:49:17 PM
I got a reasonable quote from my tree guys and they're gonna drop that pine for me. As much as i want to try it, i can't take the risk.
Smart move ;)
Cheers
Ken
Tree guys came today. 5mins :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E17.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E18.jpg)
I cut it up into 5 or 6 foot sections and rolled it up a bit of a hill to my 'milling area'. Much more difficult than i expected. I didn't realize how big this tree was. About 17" near the bottom. I'm going to have to throw my 20" bar on when i try to rip some boards out of it since my jig setup eats up a couple of inches of usable bar length. Maybe tomorrow i'll have a go. Hope the weather improves. It was like 25 today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E19.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E20.jpg)
I'm glad it worked out for you. By the looks of the cut on that stump they were lucky it went where it was supposed to.
Quote from: bill m on January 18, 2013, 08:33:50 PM
By the looks of the cut on that stump they were lucky it went where it was supposed to.
I'm no pro by any stretch but I was thinking the same thing. :) Glad you got it resolved Low.
I was thinking that the cut on the back side should have been a bit higher? Is that what you guys are referring to? I don't really know anything, but am curious :)
I don't think it was a tough job, i just needed it to be sure the whole process was insured in case it went bad and my neighbor's patio got destroyed. They had it roped so i don't think they cared too much about the cut. That may explain it.
Friendly bunch of guys and very fair with the jobs they've done for me.
Even with the rope, their hinge was wrong, and in the wrong place. They are lucky if they are "professional" tree fallers. The back cut didn't need to be higher. Just the hinge should have been further over (not in the center) to the direction of fall.
But rope will cover for bad cutting. Glad you have it down.
In looking at the stump it appears they made the horizontal ( bottom ) cut first and went to the middle of the tree. Then when they made the angle cut ( face cut ) they cut past the bottom cut. The back cut is lower then the hinge and should never be. They also cut past the hinge on both sides leaving only a small portion of hinge in the center.
Certainly not a "textbook" example of a stump. Low back cut, very little hinge. As they had ropes on it, and it's wasn't a tricky tree, they got away with it. But you wouldn't want to rely on that hinge if you were wedging the tree against it's natural lean, or trying to control a side leaner.
But end of they day, it's down safely. ;)
Ian
I'm sorry i changed my comment
I looked at that stump again, nice flat cut, knew enough not to saw it off the stump, being only about 20' tall, pull rope on it. There wasn't much that could go wrong.
If the faller would have sawed it off the stump before they started to pull, is about the only thing that could have caused it to fall the wrong way.
There is a national trees service group that does a lot of county contracts around here, most of their stumps look worse then that. When you spend all day rigging trees and dropping 2-3' chunks at a time its real easy to get lazy. Spend all day in a bucket truck and a guy starts thinking he don't even need a face cut. Have had a few guys ask for a job and say that they worked for them... so they know chainsaws and how to fall trees, its hard not to laugh in their faces. (its easy to say no cause I work alone or with one other guy)
lumberjack is right on with that comment. My father would have ALOT to say about that stump.
I agree with Ianab and others. Both the undercut and backcut appear to be completely backwards. Also the angle of the undercut appears to point right towards a tree down slope. Very lazy or inexperienced faller. Appears that even when someone turns to professionals, you can have issues.
When I am faced with high risk directional falling I always make sure I have my undercut a good inch below the back cut [See pic below] One can never be too careful - My experience with broken topped trees [and also dead ones] is that their natural balance is gone [often lop sided] and dead trees are often dry and light and do not like to commit themselves over their centre of gravity when falling.
When I am faced with similar falling challenges, I hook a 1/2 cable [no shorter in length than the tree is tall] a minimaum of 1/3 the way up the tree and hook it to my Bobcat. - I have a second person pull the tree over with the Bobcat as I finish the back cut.
I always like to be safe rather than sorry when dealing with 1500+ pounds of tree
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31497/falling.JPG)