Question on homemade bandsaw head lift

[Swatson]

I am in the process of upgrading my homemade bandmill.  I started using it with a 5 hp single phase electric motor.  It does okay for small stuff and I probably cut about 4000 bdft of various wood with it.  I cut about 1000 bd ft of walnut recently and as long as the blade was really really sharp it did okay but there really wasn't enough power and it took forever.  Recently I came across a 20hp three cylinder diesel relatively cheap ($700) and I am going to put it on my mill.  Now it weighs about 350 lbs where as my old electric motor weighed about 100 lbs.  Would a cable hoist be adequate for lifting the head with a much bigger engine?  I don't really like the cable hoist because its not real accurate but when it comes to maybe doing a roller chain lift I'm kinda lost on the mechanics.  Acme thread is a possibility but I don't want it to be too spendy.



 

I did order Cook's 1.5 inch roller guide complete retrofits.  Ive heard really good things about those and they would be leaps and bounds above my present bearing setup.  I am going to rebuild the carriage so making changes to the lift wont be a big deal if I can get a good picture in my head.



    

Biggest question I have is I guess do I stick with the cable hoist or look to acme or roller chain?

By the way the mill only cost me $100 dollars to build.  I used nearly all my good "junk" to build it.  All I had to buy for it was a pulley and a new belt. 

[ladylake]

 I just visited a Amish mill yesterday that had a crank up -down head with a counter weight that cranked up with very little effort.  Also a torsion type garage door spring or 2  would help a lot.    Steve

[backwoods sawyer]

Don't be afraid of a chain lift with a simple "S" drive system.
two idlers that allow a loop in the chain for a set back drive sprocket anchor both ends of the chain and the drive walks up or down the chain.

[Swatson]

Don't be afraid of a chain lift with a simple "S" drive system.
two idlers that allow a loop in the chain for a set back drive sprocket anchor both ends of the chain and the drive walks up or down the chain.

I know what your are talking about with the "S" drive.  Simple to build but How would you lock the head in place?  And would you need to build in some mechanical advantage?

[VictorH]

Welcome to the forum Swatson!!  Can't help you on your lift but I would encourage some guards on that mill.  At a $100 bucks yours may just be the best valued mill on here.

[Delawhere Jack]

Welcome to the FF Swatson. I'll second Ladylake about the hand winch and counterweight idea. The counterweight would not need to equal the weight of the sawhead, just use enough that it makes using the winch manageable. In fact, with a little (200-300lbs) difference it should help the sawhead "settle in" better. A ratcheting hand winch is also much easier to set at precise heights.

Oh yeah...... get some guards on that mill.....soon.  ;)

[Swatson]

I actually do have guards for it.....the picture is a little old and I haven't taken any recent ones since it is in pieces right now waiting for the retrofit.  Maybe the hand winch I have now is a little more finicky than it needs to be because I have issues getting it set within a tenth of an inch of where I want it.  I have a ways to go before I settle on a lift system.  This week I am working on mounting the motor in a frame.  Trying to make it a self contained unit so I can pull the motor off easily as an assembly and set it off to the side or hook it to an armature if needed (had a nasty ice storm in '09 and lost power for two weeks).

[hackberry jake]

I have some 1.5" acme threaded rod. Just hit me up if you need it. I'd let it go pretty cheap. Also have two sets of nuts for them.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Swatson.

Simple to build but How would you lock the head in place?  And would you need to build in some mechanical advantage? 

A wormgear would keep it locked. 

[21incher]

If you have room you could always add another set of pulleys to double the power and accuracy of the hand winch you now use.

[coastlogger]

I have the 2 acme threaded rods setup and am very happy with it.Have a hydraulic motor to power it,quite fast and deadly accurate. Cranking by hand not so good,I tried it for awhile then arranged for power. LOTS of cranking esp if youre cutting thru and thru(basically thru and thru is an impossibility if youre cranking by hand,you need to remove each board as its cut)

[leroy in kansas]

Welcome to the form.

It looks to me like it would be pretty easy to double the cable, which will increase the accuracy. And as said, a garage door spring wound around the shaft your rolling the cable on. Watch those springs when ya wind, they'll get ya. I know this after getting knocked off the ladder.

[sawdust joe]

I think puting a 300lb. motor on the frame you have in photos will not work so well. 
It needs to be beefed up quite a bit . I personaly like the roller chain method.using garage door torshion spring as a helper Take note of cooks saw they use a break with the hand crank assembly as a locking device. Welcom to the forum and happy sawing.

[redprospector]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Swatson.

Simple to build but How would you lock the head in place?  And would you need to build in some mechanical advantage? 

A wormgear would keep it locked.

You hit the nail on the head Magicman.
I put a worm drive on my mill when I built it. It never moves once I stop it. The worm drive actually gives you a mechanical advantage through the gear ratio, you just have to keep it greased good. Mine is hydraulic driven, but could be hand driven pretty easy.

[Swatson]

I think puting a 300lb. motor on the frame you have in photos will not work so well. 
It needs to be beefed up quite a bit .

I agree....thats why I am rebuilding the carriage.  The saw head I am actually happy with.  It has worked well except I am going to replace the underweight 1" axle with a 1.5" inch truck axle.  With the one inch drive axle I could not put enough tension on the blade.  The truck axle is made from much better steel than the shaft I was using and I don't think the small shaft was even heat treated (it was off an old Massey Ferguson manure spreader).

I do appreciate all the input from you guys.  Got the wheels turning in my head now.

[kelLOGg]

A roller chain, gearing and handcrank/brake (extreme right) can be seen here on my MP32.
Bob

 

[36 coupe]

Might be easier to use a larger electric motor and keep a sharp blade on the mill.Looks like you will have to do a rebuild for the diesel engine anyway.

[EZ]

I used a 2000 lb warn winch on my lift. I removed the cable and put a chain spocket on the in side of the drum. I split. The spocket in half and bolted it on. It's been like that for a12 yrs now and no problems with it. It's fast up and down and the head stops where you want it.                                 
Ez.

[MSSawmill]

Don't be afraid of a chain lift with a simple "S" drive system.
two idlers that allow a loop in the chain for a set back drive sprocket anchor both ends of the chain and the drive walks up or down the chain.

I know what your are talking about with the "S" drive.  Simple to build but How would you lock the head in place?  And would you need to build in some mechanical advantage?

Someone explain the S drive to me or point me to a diagram/picture of it, please? Advantages/disadvantages of the acme rod over a chain lift? We're probably going to be rebuilding our mill head this summer because of... well... several problems with the design, and I'm going to be looking for a better lift idea, too.

[leroy in kansas]

Don't be afraid of a chain lift with a simple "S" drive system.
two idlers that allow a loop in the chain for a set back drive sprocket anchor both ends of the chain and the drive walks up or down the chain.

I know what your are talking about with the "S" drive.  Simple to build but How would you lock the head in place?  And would you need to build in some mechanical advantage?

Someone explain the S drive to me or point me to a diagram/picture of it, please? Advantages/disadvantages of the acme rod over a chain lift? We're probably going to be rebuilding our mill head this summer because of... well... several problems with the design, and I'm going to be looking for a better lift idea, too.

Swatson, I'm going to be working on the lift mechanism for the swing saw build soon. I'll put up some pics that may help.

[backwoods sawyer]

The first one is the feed chain on the wm


 
This is the up down drive looking from the bottom up


 
This is the up down on the Cooks


 
Hope these give you some idea of how s drives can be configured.

[york]

Backwoods sawyer,ok i can see lift chain,going over the lift shaft,then to first idler sprocket,then on to 2nd idler sprocket,then this is where i am lost with the S lift system,could you please show another pic. how the chain ends up or is taken up as the saw head lifts,thanks Albert

[backwoods sawyer]

 On the WM lift chain it is simply anchored on each end and the sprocket climbs and lowers on the chain.

The Cooks is a bit more involved it anchoers to "4" points on the saw head, and one shaft turns to raise and lower all at the same time. To take up slack on the other end of the cables they attach to a spring then a cable that goes to a pully and end with enough wraps on the same shaft.
This system has a tendency to jump a cog if you do something like lower the saw on the end of the log or lower head with the saw in the wood or any other time slack is generated in any one of the four chains. All picture are of just one side (2 chains) as the other side is set up the same way.


 


 


 


 

[york]

Backwoods,thanks for bringing me up to speed,good pictures.....

[Swatson]

Okay been a long summer.  I feel bad for posting this thread then disappearing for so long but I had a good reason.  Had a son born in July.  Rebuilding the bandsaw fell off my list of priorities.  I just acquired some steel so I'm back to planning.