proper direction of tree falling

[bigsnowdog]

Are some people performing the initial driving in of the wedge, and then driving one or more in further as a cut progresses?

[beenthere]

Usually just place the wedge in the cut where you don't want the cut to close (tree setting down on the bar). When wanting the cut to open to get the tree to tip in the right direction, then the wedge is tapped further into the cut.

[Kevin]

climbed about 3/4 up and tied off a line        Regular Guy!

Was this a free climb?
I'm guessing that would be thirty feet or more.

[Piston]

Wouldn''t 3/4 of the way up a 130' tree be closer to 95-100'? 

that would be a high climb!    :D

[Kevin]

Thirty feet or more has it covered.
Anything over ten is extremely dangerous and anything over thirty doesn't really matter because you're dead anyway.

[Ianab]

Are some people performing the initial driving in of the wedge, and then driving one or more in further as a cut progresses?

If I even suspect the tree may settle back and pinch the bar, I tap a wedge into place once there is enough space in the backcut. Then just complete the cut, leaving just the hinge wood. 2 things may happen.
First is that the tree simply falls, and the wedge is left sitting on the stump. Cool
Or you need to give the wedge a bit of "persuasion" to tip the tree over. Still cool.
If it's has a bit of a back lean and sits down hard on the wedge, then you can insert a couple more, double them up etc and work on them until you have tipped the tree over.

Worst case is not setting one at all, and having the tree sit back, pinch your saw, and have no gap to get a wedge started. Then you have a problem  :-\

Ian

[bigsnowdog]

I am going to have to start trying this.

[lumberjack48]

I used a wedge when i fell in Montana, never owned a wedge  here in MN., never seen a wedge in my fathers logging tools ether, i mean I'm back as far as i can remember up to now.

I've been on many logging jobs over 30+yrs, i have never seen a guy carry a wedge in MN.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've been on many logging jobs over 30+yrs, i have never seen a guy carry a wedge in MN.

I've bought logs from a few guys in northern Mn and they all used wedges.

There is no disadvantage to using wedges only advantages so why not use them? They allow more controlled/precise felling, reduced chance of pinching during felling and bucking and only take a couple extra minutes to use.

[John Mc]

There is no disadvantage to using wedges only advantages so why not use them? They allow more controlled/precise felling, reduced chance of pinching during felling and bucking and only take a couple extra minutes to use.

X 2 !! Felling wedges are useful tools. They give you more options for putting a tree where you want it to fall, as opposed to where it wants to fall... which can save a LOT of time when you consider the whole logging operation, not just the process of getting trees on the ground.

[Magicman]

I've never seen a wedge used here either.  When they hang a chainsaw, they just take a break until a skidder comes along and pushes the tree to unhang the saw.   :-\

[lumberjack48]

 A tree will fall three directions with out a using a wedge.

Disadvantage using a wedge, i can't imagine playing with a wedge when theres a skidder at my heals wanting trees on the ground.
I can't see where i could save time using a wedge, if i had a tree that i could not pull with a hinge, i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes.

If a person needs a wedge when bucking up, he wasn't learned the does & don'ts. I've had guys with 3 saws stuck, they just couldn't get it no matter how much wood they saw up.

chevy, i don't know where you were, i worked with nothing but professional loggers, i never seen a feller with a wedge. I used to get hay from a farmer, he did a little logging on the side, he had a couple wedges laying in the pickup box.

If i had trees along a boundary line or fence that were lining back, we used the skidder   to push-em over, much faster than a wedge.

Felling out west is a another thread, you use a tool belt, you have to be prepared, your out felling way ahead of the skidding crew.

Don't get me wrong theres a place for a wedge, just not in my technique of getting timber on the ground, in a solid stand of Aspen i could tip a 100 cords a day if i wanted to fall ahead of the skidder, i loved tipping timber.

[BaldBob]

"...i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes."

You may be an expert faller, but if you did that on any of the jobs that I supervised, you'd be headed down the road.  Leaving a tree all but ready to fall while working on other trees is about the most serious safety violation a faller can commit.

[Paul_H]

All the hand fallers around here use wedges.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Must be alot of nice flat ground there in Mn where your at to be able to get a skidder to each and every trees. Here we have terrain where no skidder can come to push the trees. And where its possible to get the skidder waiting around for it is very time consuming when a wedge and 3 hits on it with a short stick and the tree is on the ground laid perfectly for it to be pulled out. 

As said notching trees and then leaving them to be pushed over later is very dangerous, as a sudden gust of wind or even just gravity can cause them to come crashing to the ground when you least expect.

Also round here if the skidder was that much on your heals waiting for wood your cutting then the whole operations needs some direction. Ideally the skidder and fellers aren't in the exact same area at the same time to keep things safer.

Just about anybody can notch a tree and push it over with a skidder. It takes some talent and skill to put trees exactly where you want them with no help but from a wedge and an axe.

[lumberjack48]

I put my trees right where i wanted them !!

I never left the tree precut, it was only notched, i finished the cut when the skidder was pushing.

I left my job at night there wasn't a tree left in the woods, theres nothing worse than trees froze down or a foot of snow on them.

I started fresh every morning, while the skidders were warming up I'd go start laying them down.

Four of us working, 2 drivers, one topper and one feller, this is when the markets were taking a lot of wood.
When the markets tightened up i had to lay off one driver and the topper, the wife and me worked.

Most of Mn is flat, i've ran in to some steep ground, not that many days of it, expect when i logged up on the Voyage National Park, on Lake Kabetogama, that is rough ground, steep and lots of rock.
I logged the winter of 1970 on Locater Lake trail, i stayed in logging camp with the wife and 3 kids. I barged my skidder across  Kabetogama in Sept, beautiful country.
There were two other couples, and 4 French Canadians staying in camp, they were strip cutting.
I brought a logger friend of mine to work with me.
You can't buy these kind of times

[bill m]

I guess if putting them right where you wanted them means somewhere on the ground than you don't need wedges. But if you want to put them where it makes the skidder operators job easier and not destroy all of the understory regeneration it's a good idea to learn directional felling and use wedges.

[Paul_H]

I agree Bill.If you're falling a face on a side hill,one log in the wrong spot will make it miserable for the lay.

[John Mc]

A tree will fall three directions with out a using a wedge.

If it's got any lean to it, I'd buy up to 180˚ of choices (up to 90˚ on either side of the direction of lean). I wouldn't buy 270˚, which is what I think you may be getting at with your "three directions". Once you get past 90˚ from the lean, you are trying to go against the lean. You're going to need something to give it a push (or pull) in that case. Could be a wedge, could be a felling lever (if you feel like carrying one around), could be a skidder, come-along, etc.

Disadvantage using a wedge, i can't imagine playing with a wedge when theres a skidder at my heals wanting trees on the ground.
I can't see where i could save time using a wedge, if i had a tree that i could not pull with a hinge, i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes.

And this is where I come back to my statement that wedges "can save a lot of time when you consider the whole logging operation, not just the process of getting trees on the ground." I'd have the feller doing the felling, rather than tying up an expensive piece of equipment doing the job the feller should be doing. I'd also want the feller to be able to put the tree down in the direction that minimizes residual stand damage, and is the most efficient direction for skidding... even if this direction is against the lean.

[Ianab]

I was thinking the same thing, using a $50,000 skidder to do the job a $5 wedge could do, in the same time?

It's not like you even need to wedge every tree, the ones you do, it takes maybe 30secs to set the wedge, complete the cuts normally, and give the wedge a few whacks to tip the tree. It's over before you could get the skidder turned around and lined up behind the tree.

Ian

[thecfarm]

I use wedges,just because I don't have a skidder in my back pocket. For alot of guys on here we are just small scale loggers or just cut firewood.

[lumberjack48]

 I'm talking about a clear cut operation.

My trees all layed the same why, i worked on finding the best method to get timber out with a pole skidder and a free hand feller 30 years, i did not want to see a skidder tied up because of poor felling methods or broken trees, broken chokers or mainline, because a feller layed the timber cross ways in the stumps, he would be down the road.

I wanted those Detroit's screaming, not setting trying to hook up a messed up drag, i made money when the trees were on the landing not laying in the woods.
I set goals every day, in a good solid stand of timber, i wanted 80 turns, sounds crazy, i was a die-hard logger, the wife was worse then me.

After i got hurt the wife kept the job going, she would load me up everyday , i sat in the pickup all day.
She had my brother falling for her, he came out of the woods and gased up the 044, than poured a cup of coffee and got in the pickup with me, we were Bs'ing , this is about 9am, we didn't break on till 10. Then all of a sudden the pickup door flies open, she grabs his cup, throws it out on the ground, she yells this isn't break time, i need you in the woods, then she looks over at me, she yells at me, what the H___ or you doing, you know better.
Dam i thought, i sure taught her well.

We hired a couple guys after i got hurt, the first night they came in i asked how much they got out, they said, they fell all day, didn't skid a thing, in other words nobody made a dime, a 0 day.
We learned real quick, that all the real loggers were all ready working, and if we could't be on the job, we were better off to park the equipment.

[Piston]

I use wedges,just because I don't have a skidder in my back pocket. For alot of guys on here we are just small scale loggers or just cut firewood.

:D :D :D :D

Not only funny, but also a great point. 

[captain_crunch]

Here in Oregon we generaly carry 2 wedges at all times. The old steel wedges used flat 1/8 in steel plates and wedges were from 18-20 in long but they kinda went away like the hand saw. But you could tip over a big one with them

[Dave VH]

I wonder how many bent bars are out there because people refuse to use wedges.

I'm not a professional feller, I need my wedges!  I'm yet to get a skidder.  Maybe if I had the bigger equipment, I'd use it.