My Oliver 880 tractor is acting up and not wanting to start. Because I am not much a mechanic, I am looking for ideas on where to go next. Details are below:
880 is gas powered, 6 cylinder. The gas is gravity feed. .
Tractor was running and starting fine. I changed out the plug wires, rotor, and distributor cap (under the cap, there was just a rotor, no points). I have not yet, pulled or changed the plugs.
After changing out these parts, generally, the tractors would not fire up. However, I let it sit for a week or two, next time out, she fired up the first time. Ran the tractor for 20 minutes, let it sit overnight and it would not start in the morning for nothing.
Checked at the plug wires and verified that I was getting spark.
Next trip out, brought out a battery with higher cranking amps. Tried the tractor before I changed the battery and it fired right up. Ran if for 10 minutes and shut it down. Tractor sat overnight and wouldn't fire in the morning. Changed the battery; still no start.. Heated up the engine and got it to start up, it ran well for a couple of hours, including shutting it down and restarting. Let the tractor sit till early evening; at that point it would not start (turning over just fine, wouldn't fire).
1. The starter seems fine, the engine turns over.
2. I have pulled the plug on the carburetor and good gas is getting to the carb.
3. I have spark at the plug wire end (but don't know how to check if the spark is enough).
4. When the tractor fired up in the evening and wouldn't start in the morning, the temperature dropped into the 30s overnight.
5. I double checked the new distributor against the old and it looks the same.
6. When the tractor fires up, she runs just fine.
My next thought is to pull and replace the spark plugs (it has been awhile). If that doesn't work, I am pretty much out of ideas. I was thinking maybe pull and replace the coil that feeds the distributor, but I am not sure how you would check this.
Looking for any ideas or thoughts as to what might explain the cyclic behavior of this machine.
Definitely change the plugs. I'd bet that is the problem. Generally coils either work or they dont.
Sometimes the older gas tractors can get a little cranky, especially if they aren't run regularly. Here is a site I use a lot for troubleshooting. They have a section on all of the tractor makes and models including Oliver.
http://forum.yesterdaystractors.com/
(http://forum.yesterdaystractors.com/)
Good luck.
Sounds to me like a moisture problem, and maybe a cracked distributor head. That thought only because it is happening apparently after a cool night. The old WD-40 used to work well to defeat this problem but apparently the new formulation doesn't work that way.
May be a compression problem.
But trying new plugs is in order.
Are you still using ether to start it?
Beenthere, not using ether to start the tractor.
Cracked distributor head? Do you mean cover? Or the distrubutor itself. The distrubtor puzzles me, in that under the cap there is just a rotor, that is it.
If you haven't tried, pull the rotor off the shaft then a (usually plastic) cover will lift off from beneath the rotor, the points should be under there. If not, it is possible to change the old point style distributors over to HEI with a kit that did away with the points. I'm not familiar with Olivers but worked on a lot of old gas powered JD's, I've found even something as small as the condenser can cause the troubles your having, but it's usually the points.
Jon
The cover (cap) that snaps over the rotor on the distributor. Can have a hairline crack in it and is a good place for moisture to collect on early mornings after a cold night.
Looks like these, and the Oliver 880 appears second from the top.
http://www.antiquetractorsrus.com/whiteolivertractorparts/ignition/woignitionparts3.html
Thanks for the help guys. Sometimes I wonder if maybe I just have a brain tumor.
I've popped the distrubutor cap a dozen times and seen a rotor and a DUST COVER and thought, well, I guess there are no points. On a 50 year old tractor...
Anyway, heading North next Saturday...armed with spark plugs. Will pull the points and condenser and replace them, too.
I have had a bad condenser cause that same problem.
I'm with Beenthere,Moisture.That was the first thing I thought of when I read your post.
There is a cover under the rotor, under it will be the points, bring a small file with you or fine sand paper , you may have dirty points , sometimes cleaning the contact area will be all that is needed to get her going. ( file is very fine, used to be an ignition file one could buy, not sure if it can be bought nowadays :-\ )
If you do need points and condenser, your nearby auto parts store should be able to help out , I get all my Oliver fixens from NAPA.
Condensers you buy today are crap,I've had new ones that were no good.For suspect moisture problems spray the wires with WD-40 and try it if runs good replace the wires if not spray the dist. cap.I would suspect the condenser and or points. Frank C.
It's got a set of points .That thing should have a Delco ignition sytem just like all Olivers .It probabley has a Marvel Schuebler carb too like many of them .
Those Marvels can drive you nutty .They have a tendency to plug up .It's easy enough to fix just remove the carb and blow out all the passages with compressed air and put it back together .
It doesn't take much of a tiny bit of dirt,a weed seed or something to block off the fuel inlet before the float valve on those things .Tiny enough it can find it's way passed the sediment bowl .
Every piece of machinery I ever owned with a Marvel Schuebler I've had to blow out the carbs at least two three times a year .
Pretty much a dead give away is if the thing will run with about 2/3 choked you have a plugged carb .
Condenser :)
Up here in SW Ontario, Canada, we have that the crap the gas companies are passing off for gas does not seem to work in older tractors. I have a neighbour that had a 770 Oliver with the same problems and I advised him to go to high test, problem solved! On my old JD B if I use regular gas it will run for about 10 minutes and start to miss, backfiring and will hardly pull itself. Change to high octane and it runs beautiful. Most of the members in the local tractor club have also changed. The regular gas tends to foul the spark plugs, don't know why. Hope this helps out, Old Iron nut.
Sounds more like you have water in the gas than just bad gas .That old John Deere should be able to run on kerosine once it's started on gasoline
Now back to the old Ollie .More times than not if it isn't the carb getting plugged it's the points being tarnished . It just happens .Shine them up with real fine aluminum oxide paper and run a sheet of plain paper through them .It only takes a tiny little bit of sand cloth residue to stop the points from closing completely to stop them dead in their tracks .
In addition to cleaning the carbs out periodically this is another chore I have to do on a regular bassis it seems .It's just another one of the things a person has to do with 50 year old machinery and a good part of training to advance to the title of "junk yard dawg " .Which I might note in spite of how long you've done so things pop up periodically to really test a persons patience .Although it might seem appropriate to smash them with a big hammer that won't solve the problem . :D
Are you a member of the Oliver Forum?
http://www.hartparroliver.org/phpBB2/
I'm not but I've turned wrenchs quite a bit on old Ollies and Hart-Parrs .
My old bud Kent may he rest in peace bought an HP 70 for about junk price with the engine about all torn down .The rod caps all in a big heap .Poor old Kent had had his heart stop several times from being electrocuted and didn't exactly think straight at times .
I matched the grind marks on the caps and rods and got it all sorted out finally .New rings and it was good to go .
I'll have to say a 6 cylinder Oliver engine is just about the smoothest running tractor engine you can ever find .I have no idea who made the flat heads but most if not all the over heads were Waukeshas .The 77's were basically like a Chevy 194 and the later Supers like the 216.5's .I don't think the parts interchange though .Never had the occasion to actually find out .
Thanks. I spend the day yesterday with my brother (Petey) up at the Stump Ranch. Here is source of my frustration (the treasure hidden below the brown plastic cover).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17998/IMG_0631.jpg)
We lightly sanded the points, cleaned everything up, hit it with a little WD-40 and wa-la, she runs like a champ.
Since this worked so well and didn't take long at all, we moved on to another project. We tore everything down to pull the water-pump and get after a gasket leak (left over from a couple winters back when I managed to freeze up the radiator). Next weekend we plan to install the new water-pump or gasket, replace all the belts and fluids, and the Oliver will be just like new.
Another Oliver (or tractor question):
I was cleaning and tightening up everything on the Oliver and decided to free up one of the cable controls right above the choke knob (which I've never used). This cable opens and closes a flapper valve.
The Oliver has an air intake with a filter and oil bath. This flapper valve is located above the air filter and, if opened, would allow hot air to flow into the air intake from a pipe that ends in a heat shield around the exhaust stack.
It looks like you could open this valve and after the engine is warm, you could preheat the incoming air.
What is this used for?
My guess is carburetor icing.
:D Probabley a majority of those things running yet today have long past had the air intakes pipes either removed or lost .