Broken sawblade guide

[markd]

I've been milling a lot lately and today as I was finishing up with the last cut the piece slipped off the headblock and the sawblade grabbed it and slammed it down on the cast iron blade guide and broke it into several pieces. It is a complex piece that holds two pieces of ironwood 1" sq and keeps the blade from wandering off. I'd love to find another one if anybody out there can understand what I'm talking about and might have a line on such a creature please let me know, I'm broke down. Thanks you guys. Markd

 

 

[JoshNZ]

Any photos or details of the mill? Might it be possible to fabricate a replacement?

[dgdrls]

Like @JoshNZ posted, pictures would help
Who built the mill? 
Might have more luck posting in the wanted section,

D

[Jeff]

Typically  a wanted post without a I understand  the terms of posting an ad statement would be deleted and a warning sent to read the rules. Since this one wanders across that line and is more of a plea for help, I will leave it. Just go read the terms and understand them.

[markd]

Sorry Jeff, didn't mean to break the rules. Markd

[markd]

I'll take a picture today, I'll also try to weld it, it was an American Mill a No. 2 maybe, I'm not sure about the No. It is a complicated piece might be hard to make one. Though there might be another way to approach the problem. thanks for your help. Markd

[Jeff]

You should have no problem fabing a guide pin setup for an old mill.

[Larry]

Sounds like it could be fixed by welding.  A picture will help.

Welding cast iron does take special techniques and skill.  Nickel rod, pre-heat, peening, and short beads.  I do quite a bit of cast iron repair and prefer to braze most times, especially with complicated fit ups. 

[farmfromkansas]

Doubt I could repair that myself, but if you have a welding and machine shop business in your neighborhood, think I would take it there.  Used to have a farmer neighbor who did work like that.  Most of what he did for me worked out well.  Couple failures.  We have a shop a few miles from here that builds skid steer attachments and does a few repairs, they are very good. They welded the front axle on my 4020 JD last year, is better than new.

[Larry]

A simple brazing job for me.  "V" out the break, fill with braze, clean up, and good as new.  Less than 30 minutes.

Nickel welding would also work.

Fabricating a new one wouldn't take much more time.  Hardest part would be broaching the square hole.

[luap]

If you are fabricating one, the square hole can also be  be a weldment of smaller pieces. If a shop has the capability to broach a square hole,  they have the capability to fab the whole thing easily. Each rod manufacturer has a variety of cast iron rods that have different properties and require different techniques. some even run on ac. Without some guidance it could be easy to have failure. But you are in the best position to have a learning experience. I have had to repair broken and missing motor feet on cast housings . One technique is to butter a layer of cast weld on the broken surface and use a piece of mild steel for filler and join the pieces together using a wire feed welder. A little bit of porosity would be acceptable. As they say, it's not the space shuttle. Make sure your pieces are clamped down for alignment. Hopefully some one in your neighbor hood can steer you to someone that does this sort of thing.

[Don P]

Talk to any local sawdocs in the area as well, they know where all the bodies are buried. There might be one parting out nearby.

[markd]

Thanks all of you for you positive input, I dropped off my broken part to my local machine shop, they really didn't want it but I pressed them and they took it I'm not sure they're going to follow through. I'll give them a week then go pick it up. After telling me he didn't want to fix it he then told me he was going to charge me $200 I then ask if he could do it and he took it so we'll see. I expect he'll put it in the corner and forget about it until I come back to get it. Bad attitude dude I'd say. You guys made me feel better though thank you all. Markd

[Jeff]

You should of reached out to a forum member. I bet one would of been willing and able to do the work. Maybe or maybe not cheaper. But the attitude would have been right.

[Iwawoodwork]

Markd, I bet one of the Hull-Oaks welder-
millwright folks could easily fix or fab the guide. If not I would take a try at it. I'm just a back yard guy but have repaired or fabbed up replacement parts like the guide for myself over the years. I'm located down in Cottage Grove.

[ladylake]

 $200 for a half hours work is a ripoff.   Steve

[JoshNZ]

Is it definitely cast iron and not cast steel? That's an easy fix with a welder, anyway. Bit of a nuisance if it's cast iron but totally possible.

If I wasn't half way round the planet id do it for nothing!

[markd]

Jeff, you're right, I actually thought that also, my mistake. I'm bettin they threw it in the corner and I'll have to go beg to get it back then I can start over. I could tell he didn't want to do it, I should have let it go but I didn't. Hull Oakes boys could do it but they're busy boys I don't want to bother them.

[Hilltop366]

 It could just be the lighting but the break on the U area kinda looks like it has been cracked part way through for a while.

I think I understand how it works mostly, just wondering what the tab above the wood block is for?

Also when I first looked at it the first thing that popped into my mind is it looks like a a large shackle with a few bits added to it,(it is hard to tell from a picture if it would work) however if you had to make one perhaps you could start with a shackle.

[luap]

For those who want to understand this, here is a picture of it mounted in place. The guide can be rotated away from the saw and the round piece is threaded internally on the end that allows for in and out adjustment for clearance on the saw. The tab on the side is what it rests on in place in the horizontal position. The horseshoe shape may allow some clearance for bark or debris that falls off the log but not necessary for it's pure function. This is an American #1.    I hope you will find someone to help.

[Hilltop366]

Thanks, I had most of it right in my head.

[markd]

Boy you  are right about looking like a big shackle, I have plenty of those and I'll look close at that possibility, I've been milling all my framing material for my barn and being broke down has brought construction to a halt. Yes luap, that is the guide like mine, it appears to be cast iron would cast steel be that brittle?  I'll be more careful about trying to get that last little piece off the cut, normally don't have that kind of trouble with it rattling off the edge of the carriage costly mistake. My mill I guess is an American #1 also thanks for the picture.Markd

[luap]

Cast steel is very weldable compared to cast iron. I have found that the few cast parts on mine that I have repaired are good quality cast. Back in the day they produced quality manufacturing and didn't settle for "good enough" The  different American models used a lot of common parts. The difference between the models was in the type of drives on the husk and the head block opening of the carriage to accommodate log size. They could be ordered with various options so the same model could have different features. You can look at their catalogs on  American Saw Mill Machinery Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

I always cut so my last board is a 2x and I have a pin stop in the setworks so you can't stroke it too far in one pull.

[Jeff]

Stuff on mills break, and in the great white north, solid steel can snap when running below zero.

One time we had a cutter head pillow block bearings go out on the morbark debarker. Probably 2.5" arbor. It was -10.  Bearing wouldn't budge. The case was off because the ball bearings came right out of it. I got disgusted trying to get the puller on it and hauled off and hit it with the 4lb hammer and the race broke off the arbor like glass.

A year or so kater it hapoed again in the summer. I could hear pounding from the sawbooth. When I ran out of logs I went out and found the debarker operator beating on the race. He says how did you get that to bust last time?

[markd]

Well after all the bad things I said about his attitude he came through and welded the guide back together for me.And did a very nice job it looks very strong,it cost me plenty but I'm not complaining I know everything is off the charts nowdays. I'll admit I really didn't expect him to have it finished, he didn't call back and I just went with the intention of picking it up but he surprised me in more ways let that be a lesson for us all sometime arent the way they first seem. Markd