I would like to get some recommendations for a stick welder for use on the farm here. Something in the middle of range cost and ability wise.
I bought a Lincoln AC-225-S sometime in the late 80's and have used...and abused it a lot. The fan makes a little noise now but other than that it runs like a new one.
I've made two log splitters, one log processor, forks for the FEL, trailers, and who knows what else. Can't say one bad word about it.
Norm I dont think you can go wrong with any of the hobarts , millers or linconls(sp) as for the model numbers , I have been out of the welding trade now for too long to be of any help .
When I was doing the high steel , Millers where quite popular with the rental crowed . We had ( compagnie ) Lincons and hobarts , all where good and trustfull machines .
Only thing I would recomend to you would be to get an A/C D/C welder . They weld better and have a better selection of welding electrode for them .
I recently bought a Lincoln AC-225 as well. My FIL has used one for the last 25 years that I know of, and from the looks of it, he had it long before I met him. :)
It's a personal preferance thing. I prefer the millers the seem to be smoother and possible more "Idiot Proof" than the lincolns.
Well, Norm, I have the old Lincoln 225 (AC), too. First thing I made with it, was a cart to wheel the heavy bugger around. :D
I've had it about 25 yrs, I suppose. It has held up under me, but I've no idea how good it is, as those are the only units I hve used. It has welded and cut every thing I asked of it.
I gotta vote Lincoln 225 too, I bought mine in '77 at Central Tractor, 99.00 - Still working fine, I don't know how many lbs. of rod been through it, it's in the hundreds though. Only thing I've done is replace the little factory cables with 40 ft. of 1/0 8)
I like the Miller Bobcat that my brother has on the back of his work truck. Probably more than you want to spend though- it also has a 15k generator built in it and runs 110 at an idle on that diesel engine. That fuel tank will run 2-3 days of welding and generating though.
I would just watch out for the cheaper welders out there and make sure that you have at least a 90% duty cycle, 100% preferred, because if you get a lower rated duty cycle, they always seem to shut down when you need them the most- like when you only have 1/2" of weld left to lay down, or when you are working under the vehicle and are trying to brace the part in while welding it. >:(
just my 2 cents
Charles
I would recommend a Lincoln, miller, or any of the older machines. The heavier it is, the better. I like Lincoln, but the others are great too. Fully variable amperage, not just in 10 amp increments is desirable. AC/DC is highly preferred, you will want DC for most welding applications. If you can find one, a Lincoln "Tombstone" will not let you down. I got mine for $25 at an auction, but with the price of copper, those days are gone. If you are only puttering around with it, the little leads you will get with a smaller new unit will be OK, but if you are going to make up leads, go a little longer, and a little heavier. Mine are 50'. I know where to borrow another few hundred feet, if needed. :D
Dave
Quote from: isawlogs on April 15, 2008, 01:59:20 PMOnly thing I would recomend to you would be to get an A/C D/C welder . They weld better and have a better selection of welding electrode for them.
Yeah, but their music hurts my ears ::)
Lincon here
make sure that whatever you buy has copper windings. sometimes you can find bargains at auction sales. a few years ago i bought a truck load of ac-dc welders for $15.00 each at a school auction. i had sold enough of them to make my money back before i got home. i am still using one of them. i turned down one for $5.00 not thinking that it might have $50.00 worth of copper in it.
QuoteYeah, but their music hurts my ears
that's just that fan noise Larry was talkin about. Mine makes the same racket. Some times if you kick the side of the box right it improves.
Daughter's boyfriend is a pipeline welder by trade. Swears by the older Lincolns with the continental engines. I ain't never been able to tear apart anything he has put together with his. Guess I ain't trying hard enuff....
Kick it again Warren, with the good foot. :D
At $3.85/pound, there is more than $50 worth of copper in one of those old welders. ;)
Dave
SSHH! Don't tell everybody. :D
I bought a Miller Blue Star 185 a couple of years ago and it is one of the nicest gas powered welding machines I have ever used. Mine is Honda powered which is OK, but they make a more costly model with Kohler power and auto throttle. I would go for that if I did it again. The Honda powered one is manual throttle. It was cheaper and they had one on the floor so I took it.
Norm, lot's of good advice so far.
Personally, no matter what you get I'd make sure that you could weld both AC and DC with it. DC welding allows you to change the polarity (by swapping the leads), and there are times that this could be beneficial. I do most of my mild steel welding with DC reverse polarity.
If you can swing it, an engine driven welder will allow you a lot of flexibility, and it also provides a standby generator. I have a Miller Trailblazer Pro with a diesel engine; the generator puts out 12KW and the welder is a dream. Other manufacturers have equipment that is similar in price and quality.
I find that I use my old "crackerbox" stick welder in the shop almost as often as the big diesel one though. It's not as nice to weld with, but it sure is convenient. It's a 25 year old Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC welder.
Another option is to pick up a TIG welder, and use it as a power source for both AC/DC and TIG. If you are good at welding with Oxy-acytelene, then you already have a lot of the TIG technique down pat.
Get plenty of lead with your welder. I have 100' leads on my engine driven one and have use all of it on occasion. The crackerbox has 30' leads, which occasionally is not enough.
If you shop online, IOC (e-bay vendor) has some great deals. I priced out a package with them, and took it to my local welding shop. Fortunately the local shop was able to match the overall bid, so I could keep the $ in my community.
Quinton (QWEAVER) is a former welding teacher; he's THE MAN when it comes to sound welding advice. If he has an advice that's different than mine, FOLLOW HIS!
Scott
If you want a "Does it all" welder-generator, you want this! Lincoln Air Vantage (http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=12139) This thing can power our LT40E15 sawmill! And it's got a Cummins! :)
Dave
Lincoln AC 225 Buzz Box. Ours has been around here for as long as I can remember and is still going strong. I just welded up some spots on the Mule with it yesterday. If I were buying a new one it'd be an AC/DC model
Quote from: Don P on April 15, 2008, 09:44:39 PM
QuoteYeah, but their music hurts my ears
that's just that fan noise Larry was talkin about. Mine makes the same racket. Some times if you kick the side of the box right it improves.
I dunno. The curly-headed one looks like he would get pretty mad if I kicked him ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bomv-6CJSfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bomv-6CJSfM)
Thanks for all the great advice folks. I've found the Lincoln AC/DC 225 at HD for a pretty good price. I'd love to have one with a generator but I just don't do enough welding to justify the cost. Of course it's been since industrial arts class in high school since I've done any welding so I may just a bit rusty. :D
Any advice on some accessories to get besides a auto darkening helmet?
You bought the same welder I have at dads , great little machine , 25 years and going strong .
Get a lot of lead , then get more ;) :D
I would sugest getting some 7014 rod , 6011 and 7018 .
The 14 is a very easy welding rod , has lots of elastisity and almost stick free . I use it when putting things together as it is very forgiving when squaring up , then I weld it with the 18
I usualy have a box of 1/8 and a box of 3/32 of each on hand . I like usiung the 3/32 to tack things together prior to welding up .
I good cheaping hammer and wire brush is a must , a grinder and a good face shield .
You should have a second helmet around , who ever is around and lends the third hand would be a happier camper with a shield ;)
Quote from: isawlogs on April 16, 2008, 07:43:34 AM
You bought the same welder I have at dads , great little machine , 25 years and going strong .
Get a lot of lead , then get more ;) :D
I would sugest getting some 7014 rod , 6011 and 7018 .
The 14 is a very easy welding rod , has lots of elastisity and almost stick free . I use it when putting things together as it is very forgiving when squaring up , then I weld it with the 18
I usualy have a box of 1/8 and a box of 3/32 of each on hand . I like usiung the 3/32 to tack things together prior to welding up .
I good cheaping hammer and wire brush is a must , a grinder and a good face shield .
You should have a second helmet around , who ever is around and lends the third hand would be a happier camper with a shield ;)
Just a note. 7018 is a rod commonly used for high strength welding. As such, that rod has to be kept-----DRY--as in, if it gets any moisture to speak of,you can lose up to 50% of the weld strength!!! Learned this only after i had taken some night classes at Hawkeye tech in waterloo,ia. Didnt know it before!!!!!! And dc reverse should also be used for 7018---just what i learned in class----
Quote from: Norm on April 16, 2008, 07:28:37 AM
Thanks for all the great advice folks. I've found the Lincoln AC/DC 225 at HD for a pretty good price. I'd love to have one with a generator but I just don't do enough welding to justify the cost. Of course it's been since industrial arts class in high school since I've done any welding so I may just a bit rusty. :D
Any advice on some accessories to get besides a auto darkening helmet?
Other than what's been mentioned already, good clamps and a chop saw. Sleeves and good, comfortable welding gloves.
Marcel covered it pretty good. To expand a little on the grinder get the best quality 4-1/2" grinder you can find as it will get a lot of use. Some type of eye protection for the grinder...I hate goggles cause they fog so bad but am comfortable with a full face shield and my safety glasses. I have a 7" grinder also, but it is more of a luxury than a necessity and I could get along without it. A welding book would provide a little guidance. Rod is sometimes just a matter of preference but I would bet 1/8" 6011 and 6013 are the most sold. I normally just use lightweight leather gloves if any for arc welding but have some of heavy gloves available...use them mostly with the torch.
Norm, I would suggest that you get two hand held 4-1/2" grinders, and leave a cup wire brush on one and a grinding wheel on the other. The wire brush really works great for removing slag.
Being able to have well fitted joints prior to welding makes things much easier, thus a nice bandsaw or chop saw is a valuable accessory.
I have a leather welding jacket that I frequently wear. The UV Rays generated from welding tend to give me migrane headaches. I would also suggest one of the "welding caps" that you can wear on the top of your head under the helmet - protects the old scalp from the spatter.
Scott
Norm, the first thing you need with a stick welder is a dry place to store your welding rods.
Next you need a good chop saw, 4 1/2" grinder, C-clamps, vice grip clamps, and even some of those magnetic right angle holders.
Next thing or maybe the first thing to make is a steel topped table to work on to save your back.
And maybe the most important thing is some ventilation where you weld so you do not breathe the fumes from welding. They are very toxic.
Whatever welder you buy consider picking up a reactor for it. A reactor is an air cooled coil of very heavy guage wire that will act like an arc shock absorber. I bought 1 for both my stick welders and it really makes for some nicer welding.
I bought mine from surplus center I believe.
Hmmm seems that I may need to make a trip to the welding supply store. Do you guys have any suggestions on what is used to keep the rods dry with? Also I've been wanting a metal cutting band saw too, any suggestions on those?
So should I break it to Patty that the welder was the cheapest part of this new endeavor of mine. :D
Norm, for most purposes, a dry, well ventilated spot in your shop would be fine for storing most rods. For welding high carbon steel and some alloys, you need to use low hydrogen rods like 7018 and it is more important that they be kept dry. An old small discarded refrigerator with a lightbulb (that is kept on even when the door is shut ;)) is pretty common in welding shops for storing rod.
I've used metal cutting bandsaws and wouldn't trade my abrasive cut off saw for a truck load of them.
Thanks Noble. I've borrowed my son's cutoff saw and thought it worked just fine but wondered if the band saw would be better.
To be honest I've wanted to learn how to weld for years. Now I use a welding shop that thinks 6 months is pretty much the minimum time that a small job should take. That and I think his kids must be going to Harvard for what he charges. I'm looking into some continuing ed classes for a short course on the basics.
7018 can become useless in as little as 30 minutes in very humid/wet conditions. It is possible to dry it out again, but I don't remember the temp, I think it was ~600°F. It is often stored in rod ovens at a much lower temp. They make special heated holders that dispense one rod at a time for work that has to be structurally certified.
I use the ten pound plastic tubes with the screw on lid, your welding shop should have those. I like to run 6013 and 7014, both weld very nicely. Some swear by 6011, I swear at it. :-\ I keep both 1/8" and 5/32" in each type on hand, but 1/8" will cover most jobs.
Dave
Norm , I use a small wood box with a 40 watt light bulb in it ... Alls you need is to keep the rod free of humidity . They do sell rod ovens at the welding supply store ... I have never got that hung up on the well keeping of rods at home to ever justify having one . We did though always have one on the job when raising steel .
Patty is good with wood get her to make the box ;D
Hows dat song go " Break it to her gently " :D
I dont like the band saws , but the electric hand saws that use an inche and 1/2 blades ... now your talking . ;)
I have a Porter Cable Porta bandsaw. It's a handheld saw but I also have a stand that turns it into a stand alone saw. It's accurate, and most important quiet. Bands don't last very long and it does cut slow.
I use my Makita 14" chopsaw about 95% of the time. I've had it for 15 years or so with one switch problem just a couple of weeks ago. I cut a lot of iron...some quite heavy. Some blades glaze up on the heavy iron and stop cutting...anybody have a recommendation for a good brand?
PVC with a couple of end caps will keep your common and most used rods dry. 7018 is a rod for special use...just buy a pound if you need it. Store the left over in your closet (next to your woodworking biscuits) to keep it dry. :)
I've got an old full size refrigerator that I keep rods in. I keep the rods in the top freezer part, and powder, primers and such in the bottom part. I use large bags of 'rechargeable' dessicant in with them. I keep a pretty good selection of rods, including 7018 and never had any problem with them.
One more thing on the 7018 rod Norm - Make sure what you get is AC/DC - I've had some in the past that was DC rod, & it's just awful to use on an AC machine.
Norm, ditto the recommendations on using an old refridgerator for rod storage. I use an "under-counter" model, with a full time 60 watt bulb inside. Keeps the rods nice and toasty!
Re bandsaws, I've used several, and my current model (which I'm very pleased with) is an Ellis model 1800. http://www.ellissaw.com/Band-Saws/13/1800-mitre-band-saw
It's US made, and cuts straight and fast. I prefer it over my chop saw due to noise level (much quieter), cleanliness, and overall ease of use.
Before the Ellis I had a Jet - also a good saw but not quite in the same league as the Ellis. By the way, Ellis makes some great drill presses too!
For a hand held band saw, the Milwaukee porta-band is hard to beat. Get the wide throat model.
Now, if I had your money... in addition to the above I'd buy an ironworker! They are the slick way to punch, cut and shear metal.
A stationary 3/4hp bench grinder with a wire brush on one side is also handy for knocking off burrs and cleaning up threads.
Another nice addition is a plasma cutter...
We can really have a good time spending your $, if you let us!
Scott
Quote from: scsmith42 on April 16, 2008, 06:43:10 PMNow, if I had your money...
:D :D :D
Unless we change my name on here when Patty gets wind of this I may have to scale back my plans. ;D
I got a cold box from a junk pop up camper and tossed a bag of dehumidifier pellets from Kmart in a sock in the bottom.
Another thing thats pretty easy to do is buy some 3 inch or 4 inch PVC pipe and put caps on the ends and store your rods in there (with a mesh bag of dry rice in the back to absorb moisture)
Get a good brand name helmet if you are going AutoDarkning.
I got a helmet from Farm&fleet ,that thing is so dark I never have to turnit on. It was real treat to use a friends Miller helmet . I could see when not welding and it darkened right away as needed. I would say buy Miller or Hobart ,I don't know if Huntsman makes an Autodark . I use my old Huntsman the most because it is still the lightest helmet made.
Norm you might want to slide a mig welder in behind the Lincoln you just bought . I veryseldom use my stick welder since I got the wire feeder . Stick flux fumes give me a bloody nose . I also like the fact that I don't have to carry rods and the little butts don't have to be collected. Lincoln makes a tig conversion for the AC/DC welder . I think it is called a Magnum or something like that . It has been years since I got mine I cant remember . But that is about all I use my 225 for any more.
I have a Huntsman auto darkening helmet. Bought it in 97, still works fine, and yes, the lightest hood I've found. I have a Jackson that's feels like it's made of cast iron. The inexpensive auto darks, usually purchased from somewhere that sells cheap stuff, ;) , usually don't have any support or parts availabiliy. I used one that burned my eyes. >:( >:(
Dave
Norm, get a Lincoln "cracker box" 225 amp at a farm auction; usually will come w/ some 1/8" 6011 or 6013 rod. I bought one at an auction 5 years ago w/ heavier leads for $50.00 really did not need it as I had another which was purchased at a farm auction several years before. Echo what was said about AC/DC if the price is right. Two years ago picked up a real nice MIG at a pawnshop for about 1/2 of new. HD has a pretty decent book in the welding section that worth buying. Can't think of the author though.
Norm you can just tell Patty that you could have spent a lot more on the welder so you haven't even spent what you saved by buying that Lincoln 225. :D :D
You can do a lot of welding with that welder, a chopsaw, and a 4 1/2" grinder. I can never find all those clamps when I need them anyway.
The biggest price shock comes when you buy the steel for your projects. Here we used to have a steel warehouse that sold drop offs for 10 cents a pound and today I could sell back all I haven't used for 20 cents a pound. :o
I will only add that you should get the best eye protection you can afford . that in a welding sheild and also for the grinding sheild .
As mentioned above somewheres geta dozen or so of the bean covers .. They have them at the welding supply , cheap protection for the top of the coconut . ;)
If you have any galvinised steel that needs welding ... please ask for intructions first , you can get really sick from the funes .
Have fun sticking steel with your new welder :) :)
I dont need to weld very often so i didnt spend much on it. Got a little hobart 205 ac that does good. Dont forget a Victor wrench or cutting torch . I use 3/32 and 1/8 rods that share a closet in the house with the gas hot water heater its nice and dry there and they aint grabbing space in the shop.
I don't really have clue who made my old machine. My dad bought it at Montgomery Wards 40 years ago. He probably laid a ton of bead with it and I got it when he passed. Still works just fine.