I've did a search and find a lot of talking about "live edge" siding and other things but I've not found anyone tell about how it's done on a bandmill.
We've never actually made live edge siding but we have a customer that dropped off about a half dozen hickory logs he wants sawn live edge to make siding for the inside of his woodwork shop.
The customer clearly knows he'll get and is looking for random widths. He wants to make sure he has enough of any one width to make a 60' run around the inside of the building.
Lacking any instructions, I figure to open up about a 6" face and make a few cuts (we agreed on 1/2" thick) until maybe 1/4'th down in the log. We'll edge these on the edger. Then turn 90 and make more cuts – leaving one cut and one live edge. Then turn 90 again and saw down to the bed.
We'll start on this at daybreak. So any tips would be helpful.
While I'm not a bandsawyer, I'd suggest you simply take off the top slab, flip 90 deg take off the next waste slab, then saw to the deck, leaving the bottom slab on the mill?
Simple but effective?
Ian
That would be about the only way you could do it. If he needs the stuff in bunches of the same width, about all you could do is sort it in widths coming off the mill. When you are done, put the live edge on the bottom in batches on the mill and retrim the sawn edge. You might have 8 or 10 different piles of widths, and he will wind up with that yielding a random width wall covering, but each pile would be pretty well the same width. The other thing you might do. To eliminate taper, don't position the log as you would cutting grade. Just let it lay on the log deck and get the first and second sides parallel to the bottom. Then the boards should be pretty well the same width once you flip to the third and final side.
I've done it quite often. What I do is take a pretty good slab off the flip 90 degs, saw till about halfway or a little farther, then flip 180 degs and saw to the bed. This is the easiest way I have found as far as widths are concerned you just start at the same location ie-10-8 12 from the bed if you logs are all the same dia. then your jobs a little easier if your logs are different dia. then you cheat and have an edger, me I have to use the mill. The bigger logs instead of wasting wood in the slab to get to your starting point just take off siding and edge them.
When I saw Adirondack siding...
Step 1. I take the opening cut, then usually one more.
Step 2. Turn 90° and saw about ½ way to the bed.
Step 3. Turn 90° and saw to the bed. This way you'll have a flat surface on the bed.
NOTE: If you find that you need more of a certain width, just trim off some of the straight edge.
EDIT: The second cut mentioned in step 1 will have bark on both edges.
Set this flitch aside and after you make your last cut, put it back on the mill and remove one of the bark edges.
Sounds like they have the mechanics of it down.
Personally (on two notes), I would NEVER chose live edged hickory, the bugs will eat the sapwood from house and home (mention that to your customer) first the bark borers will leave big holes and lots of frass, then later the powder post will munch. I am not sure any of that is good for the "woodshop". You could just mention this possibility to him in passing, you'll look VERY wise and knowlegeble especially if it happens. Kilning would solve the bark borers, and perhaps slow the powder post???
Also, I have "live edge", "flitch", "Adirondack siding", "Brainstorm" (depending on where your from) on my house. I LOVE the traditional circle saw marks left by my sawyer (before my mill). I sanded lightly to highlight them. Not that it matters to you, or him, but I love thinking about that BIG 56" Frick blade cutting my siding, AHHHH the tradition.
Ironwood
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/Oinsulation4.jpg)
I would only add that while we as sawyers would want to knock off the gnarliest, ugliest face off first, that is the character that most desire in live edge siding. If there are any bumps or branch stubs left on the logs, leave that side for the live edge.
When I make live edge siding, it is almost always Poplar, so this might not apply to Hickory. Poplar logs are normally close to 24" diameter so my method reflects that fact.
I will level the heart and take a slab and maybe a board or two, depending on size of log.
Flip 180 and take the same.
Flip 90 , level the top of the log, drop down the maximum width (normally 8-10") of siding, and cut, slide the top section off on forks for later.
Without moving log, level the bottom of the log and make trim cut, cut boards until you are the same height as you cut the top half of log.
Flip 90 and cut your live edge siding.
This method will give most Hickory lots of arch, which is probably not desirable. The aforementioned method will leave some immature wood on both sides of the "heart" and should help hold the siding straight.
Good luck and have fun. I enjoy cutting live edge siding. Goes fast and easy.
Thanks guys. Sounds like my plan is somewhat like most everyone else does. I don't think we can go too wrong. The customer is pretty much experimenting with this and will probably be happy however it turns out. If I can just get the hickory sawn without too many problems. Sometimes it saw fine, sometimes it gives fits.
The customer is planning to use this inside as paneling over drywall. I suspect he'll put some kind of finish on it. I'll mention about the bugs. He may want to put some kind of bug killer on it before he hangs it.
I'll try to remember to take some pictures. Maybe it'll help the next guy.
He could spray the green lumber with a borate salt before stickering and the bugs will leave it alone. Dissolve 1 pound of borate (20% borax) in 1 gallon of warm water nd spray all sides of each piece.
I sawed some out of a big old pine top I was tired of looking at the other day...pretty much what was said...open the pretty face and take enough to stand the log square against the backstops...cut to the stops, flip it and saw it home..
Sort of had the idea of using it as fascia on this little board amd batten barn I am sawing new siding for...
Hi, I've been lurking for awhile. Most of my questions have been answered, but I was wondering if you guys bevel the live edge siding, and if not how is it installed without leaving a large gap at the bottom edge?
P.S.
I really enjoy this forum.
Quote from: Ironwood on October 13, 2011, 06:10:12 AM
Also, I have "live edge", "flitch", "Adirondack siding", "Brainstorm" (depending on where your from) on my house.
Ironwood
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/Oinsulation4.jpg)
MAN that looks good. That's the plan for my barn and garage. Maybe the house too.
Thanks Bibbyman for the post and everybody for the instructions - saved me from posting the same question a month from now.
Got-R-done! This morning before the wind came up to bad to saw. Wasn't too bad. I changed my methods a couple of time but with same results. I started out pretty much as I planned - saw face 1, face 2, face 3 until I got about to the middle then flipped over and sawed some off of face one again and then back to face three. But on the other logs I sawed face 1, face 2 then face three and then flipped the cant so the live edge was against the back supports - well actually against the short stops. I clamped below 1" and sawed all the way down.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/15/wsliveedgehickory20111013d.JPG)
Here is what we got out of the last 5 logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/15/wsliveedgehickory20111013c.JPG)
Sawing the first lot down to deck live side out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/15/wsliveedgehickory20111013a.JPG)
One of the later log sawn live side to support side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/15/wsliveedgehickory20111013b.JPG)
I leveled the live edge that is now on bottom with the bed of the mill.
Looks like you made it through Bibby!
There are quite a few approaches to cutting Adirondack Siding, but they pretty-much end up the same.
Yup, you did a fine job.
Well, I kind of took my time and didn't rush things. This siding is going inside a building of a guy doing woodworking. I think it's his showroom too. I've not been in his building but I can see it from the highway. It has a lot red cedar on the outside that we sawed out. It looks real nice. I want to get over and see how the whole building looks and how the siding works out. I'll try to get pictures.
One thing I did find helpful when sawing this is the Accuset. I learned after the first log to use the pattern mode (set to 1/2" drops down to 1") on every face. I was using manual and then 1/2" drops on the first two faces but I was having problems with the dragback catching the flitch. When in pattern mode, I could at least go to manual to drag back the flitch and then back to Pattern to get back on track with my drops.
For the most part the hickory sawed real nice. Every once in a while the blade would cake up with sap and we'd stop to scrape it off. Added about double the amount of soap and vegetable oil and upped the flow rate on the Lube-Mizer.
i did some a year ago for a couples cabin. I used mosty to 20 inch ish logs about 12 feet long.
started by cutting side lumber off 2 opposite sides (they used that lumber for wind slab fence) to a point where I had about 10 inch + surface flat then I used 2 wedges that were cut to give the angle the client wanted and just cut one cut with wedge under the loader side of the log and one cut with out the wedge till got as close to the bed as possible. Then I edge cut all the top edges so that the siding averaged about 10 inches to the start of the live edge. Live edge was 3/4 inch thick on average and the tops ended up at about 1/4 to 3/8ths. worked great got live edge from both sides of the log. Wood was pine.
If i did it again i think i would cut to 4/4 scale for thickness and 12 inch finished width as it reduces the amount of things you have to concentrate on while you are cutting and makes the siding a bit more ridged.
Quote from: Lefty1981 on October 13, 2011, 09:26:23 AM
Hi, I've been lurking for awhile. Most of my questions have been answered, but I was wondering if you guys bevel the live edge siding, and if not how is it installed without leaving a large gap at the bottom edge?
P.S.
I really enjoy this forum.
Lefty1981,
Welcome to the forum. To answer your question; starting at the bottom you use a narrow
filler strip, one inch or one and a half inch wide, maybe with a slight taper, and then each successive
siding board placed above it will lay flat against the board below. Works the same as with beveled siding.
______________________
Charles sling_shot
Why not slab top side. turn 90 and split into 2 flitches, Turn 90 and saw straight down.
trash 3 slabs.Then the skinny will make trim .
Quote from: Dale Hatfield on October 13, 2011, 10:06:54 PM
Why not slab top side. turn 90 and split into 2 flitches, Turn 90 and saw straight down.
trash 3 slabs.Then the skinny will make trim .
Dale; Your idea would work if you had BIG logs, but most people who saw this siding prefer 18-20 inch logs and try to get an average width of 8 inches.
After years of sawing/building with board and batten (w. pine) I was toying with the live edge thing. I was thinking about a tapered live edge along the lines of a large clapboard. Is this "do able"??? As soon as I get time I was going to saw Live edge 2 and 1/4 inch then try to resaw at the angle. Is this nuts or what???
Welcome to the Forestry Forum Lefty1981. I do see that you have been lurking for a while. When you get a chance, start a thread and give us a good introduction and rundown of your sawing interests. :)
Quote from: timbuck2 on October 14, 2011, 09:54:59 AM
After years of sawing/building with board and batten (w. pine) I was toying with the live edge thing. I was thinking about a tapered live edge along the lines of a large clapboard. Is this "do able"??? As soon as I get time I was going to saw Live edge 2 and 1/4 inch then try to resaw at the angle. Is this nuts or what???
No its not nuts. I have played with different sized logs to come up with the way I did it the first time and it worked pretty good. I picked out 20" ish logs out of my log pile and used a couple of 3/4 inch spacer wedges on the loader side of the log on every other cut after I had flattened opposite sides with top side cut to about a 10" ish open face to start the first siding board cut with the wedges in place. Used the log clamp to raise and lower the log on and off the wedges and worked to achieve a 10" ish average width. Doing it again I would use 4/4 and work to a 12" width.
Edging the top of each piece was a pain but we got it down to a pretty smooth albeit fiddly process and cut just over 4000 square feet in 2 real long days but it was worth it for both of us. If you worked it to 8 hour days would have been at least 3 days.
One other little thing I did was cut a small "square" notch with a chisel in the log at the 3 spots where the log contacts the little stops on the mast side of mill so that I didn't need to keep the side supports up once I got down to about 8 inches left on the bed.
I know its fiddly but when a customer is willing to pay a good price (worked out to just over 3.50/BF) I will fiddle a lot to deliver what he wants.
By the way Welcome to the forum.
One thing I kind of got out of sawing these logs is that it would make more uniform width pieces if the logs did not have butt flare. Also the logs should be straight and no forks. For sure sprinkle in all the knots and bumps. So I'm thinking make a short butt cut log and use it for something else. Use good, straight second cuts for live edge siding – depending on how rustic one wants it to look.
yes bibbyman now that you mention it I dont think I used any butt logs at all on that job. mostly second and third.
Thanks for the compliment. I challked a striaght line on mine and ripped the "up side" of each board to keep the lower edge consistant. I used them full thickness (made window and corner boards VERY thick) but it turned out nice. I did use ONLY stainless fasteners and ONLY under the lap, thought I wouldhave to eventually pull some of the bottoms in with fasteners but it has never moved. I had to "toe screw" every corner board and window trim board because face screwing was NOT an option with 3" thick boards. I also matched all me corners so in the dormers for instance even though the board "hits" the corner vertical board the next one continues at he same horizontal line around the dormer. I did the same at all the corners. I was pretty meticulis about it all. I have seen it done so poorly that I did not want that on my house. I even routered a step in the end of every board where it meets the corners so that the calking had a groove to adhere to and build some "body" before rolling ou onto the face.
Borate is a good suggestion, and can be bought or ordered through Agway or similar farm store.
Ironwood
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/15/wsliveedgehickory20111013a.JPG)
When I got mostly done I thought, "I should be turning these up one more turn onto the live edge and then saw the back edge to make them the (approximate) same width.". But we were about done so maybe next time.
Customer next week is asking for wavy cut hemlock, 1-1/4" boards, for siding. Hemlock is what he's got. It's not rot resistant. How will it fare as siding?
I think Hemlock will do really well. A lot of clapboards on old New England houses are/were made of Hemlock and Spruce. My house was built circa 1830's and it still has the original Hemlock clapboards on it. They are not beveled like today's clapboards but rather a full 5/8 thickness.
I know enough people that have had success with Hemlock as landscape timbers for gardens and such that I wouldn't hesitate to use it like this.
we sided some of the houses we have with i inch boards but went latteral board and batton style with all random widths
Quote from: woodsy on October 16, 2011, 07:57:52 AM
I think Hemlock will do really well. A lot of clapboards on old New England houses are/were made of Hemlock and Spruce. My house was built circa 1830's and it still has the original Hemlock clapboards on it. They are not beveled like today's clapboards but rather a full 5/8 thickness.
I know enough people that have had success with Hemlock as landscape timbers for gardens and such that I wouldn't hesitate to use it like this.
Thanks your experience is very helpful. Not sure why he's choosing 1-1/4" thick but he has a carpenter advising him.
I just finished sawing inside wall paneling 1¼". I don't know what some folks are thinking. He lost a third of his potential lumber, and that was "sinker cypress" :o.