Small Woods Camp

treetech · April 10, 2007, 02:30:58 PM

Hi All

I am always in awe of the craftsmanship I see displayed in every section of the Forestry Forum.
I would love to build a small woods camp (maybe 10' X 12') with 4" X 8" squared logs with dovetail corners. I built a playhouse (8'X10') for my kids a few years back with 4" D shaped logs that just butted up in the corners but after seeing the pictures in the "dovetail jig" thread I would really love to try my hand at dovetailing the corners of this new building. Could anyone suggest a good book on how to lay them out and cut them or is this something that must be seen to be learned? :P

john_boylan · April 11, 2007, 02:04:50 PM

I'm sure there must be other sources, but the July/August 1985 issue of The Mother Earth News magazine contained a "19-page Construction Manual" for "The Hewn-Log Home". Included in the article were comprehensive (albeit somewhat difficult to decipher) instructions on the layout and cutting of half-dovetail notches, with details on how to use a 1:3 triangle template as an aid. I found my copy in an antiques/collectibles shop, but perhaps reprints are available directly from the magazine. You'll want pages 52 through 72 if you are looking to cut down on copying or mailing costs, and you can forgo page 52 (the title page, with a photo of a rustic cabin) and page 71 (a full-page Homelite print ad) if you want to slim it down further.

treetech · April 12, 2007, 10:38:29 AM

Thanks for the info John. I will definately try to track down one of those articles. I am starting to think maybe I should bite the bullet and buy a jig to cut the corners as my carpentery skills are ...... shall we say limited!!

sawdust · April 12, 2007, 10:45:45 AM

Morning Treetech, You might try a book called Building With Logs. by B Allen Mackie isbn 1-55209-102-3 he has a couple good pages on Dovetails. Most of the book is dedicated to round. You are building with dimension rather than logs, this makes your life much easier. Do you plan on having a gap in the lateral or not? (no gap will make your life more complicated) I will photograph a template I made of plexiglass and post it. You can build one out of cardboard too if you wish. If you know what you want for lateral gap, any overhang and slope I can send you a drawing and numbers to make your own template.
The photo may take awhile, I have the dangedest time sizing them so they will upload.
I love dovetails!

sawdust

OK so trying to photograph plexiglass is like trying to watch air. not going to happen!

treetech · April 12, 2007, 01:06:58 PM

Hi Sawdust
Thanks for letting me know about the book.
I am afraid I have a lot to learn. I don't have a clue what you mean by "gap in the lateral". Does this mean a space between the logs?

sawdust · April 12, 2007, 01:54:39 PM

Quick note, yep the lateral is the long joint betwen the logs as opposed to the actual joint.

back to cooking lunch!

LedlieLogs · April 12, 2007, 02:28:42 PM

treetech I went with the jig. It makes everything very easy. The first dovetail I cut was useable. I don't get things right the first time quite often so I am very pleased. A lot of folks here on the forum think the jigs are over priced. I think everything is over priced (except the cost of joining the Forestry Forum). I feel the jig was a bargan for me. My metal fabrication skills are ok, but no good at math. After cutting ten or so perfect dovetails I new that I made the right move for me. I can't wait to get started on the cabins out at the camp.
Good luck with your decesion.
Ledlie

Sawmill_Bill · April 12, 2007, 03:13:32 PM

Check out this URL:

Mother Earth News Hewn cabin article

Bro. Noble · April 12, 2007, 03:42:54 PM

I'm still planning on building some log buildings with dovetail notches. I'll definately go with a jig when I do. I got the video from the guy in Montqna that sells jigs. I believe it was $20 and well worth it if you plan to build a cabin with dovetail notches. His jigs are more expensive than Sawdust's and the notches look a little different. I'm not sure which I like the best. Can anyone explainthe difference in the two?

Also I've wondered about the feasibility of selling building logs with the notches already cut for 'do-it-yourselfers'. What kinds of problems would a guy likely rin into?

sawdust · April 12, 2007, 05:48:10 PM

Hey Noble, I can give you a phone number of a fellow up here that has used both Great Northern Dovetail and mine as well. In my album the house was done with a GN and the outhouse was done with mine. The visual difference is likely that GN photos have a bigger gap than my photos. Either of us can create any size gap. I will no longer build a jig with no gap, it just causes too much grief. I don't know if GN will build without a gap or not. I always intended to stop and visit them but they are off the main drag by a few hours.

sawdust.

treetech · April 13, 2007, 07:43:53 AM

Hi Guys
Sawmill Bill: Thanks for the URL. That saved a lot of searching!
LedieLogs & Bro Noble: Thank you for the info on the jigs.
Sawdust: With your experience with small structures, what size logs would you use build a 10' X 12' structure and how much lateral gap would you recomend? I will most likely be using trembling aspen logs.
Bro Noble: I like your idea of selling pre notched logs. People could also use them for landscaping and raised gardens etc.. They would look really good!

sawdust · April 13, 2007, 09:31:45 AM

Morning Treetech, If you used 6" wide 8"tall you could likely move the logs around by hand. I doubt you are looking for insulation value so you could go 4 by 6.
With a jig no less than 1/2" in is good in my mind, no gap is better done with a template, a circular saw and either a recip saw or hand saw.
How big the gap is purely personal, consider that chinking is expensive. I have seen 4" gap and 9"overhang as the most extreme.

sawdust

treetech · April 13, 2007, 10:09:47 AM

Are jigs adjustable or do you have to buy the jig to suit your log size?

sawdust · April 13, 2007, 10:24:00 AM

My jigs are not adjustable. I have tried to build one that will allow for the height to be changed, I have not been able to get the thing to stay rigid and accurate enough. Any inaccuracy multiplies by four in the lateral groove. That said you can mount the jig, cut half of the joint, remount the jig and cut the other half. Takes time. I can cut timbers that are narrower than design but not wider. My jigs mount on the timber with wood screws.

The GN Dovetailor mounts with four threaded rods that clamp the timber between the two halves of the jig. This allows some adjustment for the width of the timber,(not height) keep in mind that as you change the width away from what the design width was that the angle will change. This can create quite small inaccuracys in the joint itself.

got carried away there! The short answer, you need the correct size jig.

sawdust

treetech · April 13, 2007, 10:29:24 AM

Thanks for all the help guys. We are having a snowstorm here and work is shutting down. My computer at home has a virus so I will not be back on line until Monday. You guys feel free to continue the discussion and I will rejoin on Monday! Have a safe and happy weekend!

jokers · April 15, 2007, 07:46:14 AM

Quote from: LedlieLogs on April 12, 2007, 02:28:42 PM
A lot of folks here on the forum think the jigs are over priced.

ADD ME TO THAT LIST!!

I`ve only looked at them casually so I wasn`t aware that Sawdust also makes one and I know nothing about it but the jig from Great Northern seems so rediculously overpriced that I`ve been tempted to make one to market just to rattle their cages. I mean c`mon! 1700 bucks for the jig and a Husky 141, which btw you can`t omit unless you choose to upgrade to the Husky 350 and jig for $1875! Why should I be forced to by another saw, especially one that I would never buy anyway and probably at retail, just so I can get the jig?

You can get the Mackie book and many other fine log building books USED on eBay or through Amazon.

Sorry that I couldn`t add something constructive to this conversation, just that the GN jig price blows me away and I had to spout off, lol.

treetech · April 16, 2007, 07:09:19 AM

Good Morning all
Well I went through the Mother Earth article on the weekend and tried to figure out how to lay out the measurements for the dovetail on 4" X 8" logs. It is very hard to decipher when there is no pictures to refer to. A rise of 1 in 3 doesn't work as well on 4" as it does on 6". It also was dealing with round logs which made it more complicated. Don't get me wrong there is some excellent information in this article and it gave me a great overview of how to do a lot of the construction and layout, but after trying to lay out the dovetail I was lost.
Could anyone tell me if the angle to the end of the log is the same as the angle across the cut.

That jig is looking better all the time!!

sawdust · April 16, 2007, 10:25:20 AM

Morning Treetech, if you want to pm me your phone number we can talk. There are a few measurements you need to think about before you start calculating and drawing. Access to a fax would be good to. The angle is the same but the length may be different. Numbers change with gap and overhang.

sawdust