homemade bandsaw mill, help

[gww]

Gf
I can't answer for magic but the last time I had a return address sticker from a company, fedx picked it up at my house.  You cannot get closer to home then that. 

K
I am like that alot.  I really like not having to deal with outside entities if I can figure it out myself.  I will eventually get to it but no matter what, didn't want to run out of blades that would cut incase when I get to it, it doesn't work well.  I also have cut up several loggs that I cut into lumber, into fire wood.  I did this while working through previous problims.  I am having a hard time sacraficing a log for a trial at this time.  I will soon but was in a board hording spell since getting rid of my stockpile on the shed I built.  I really want some boards to be drying for a while.  I don't really know if I am going to like working with dry boards but want some cause I am thinking if some of them end up as raised garden beds or something I heard dry last longer in contact with the ground.  I really like that you tell things that you have did that worked for you.  I am a copy cat and since I know I am not an original thinker, I spend my life collecting things I want to try or might need from others. 

Keep sending me things to try that make my life a cheaper exsistance.  The more I can do for myself  the more independant I feel.  I don't even want to make a lot of money, I just don't want to spend all mine to the point I have to quit playing with my little hobbies.

Ox
I don't have calipers either and have never used one.  I get the ideal but am a bit sloppier in my mesurements in most things.  I seen a dreamal on youtube that had sort of a guide and went around the whole tooth.  I was having fair luck with just angle grinding the back of the point but can still tell a real differrance when adding a new blade.  I was still breaking blades but had improved my board foot by more then double.  The last blade I did, I got in the gullet a bit and it started cutting a little wavy and then broke.  For $35 bucks it is almost worth buying the ebay setter which is just like pineywoods.  I just can't make myself spend the money when if I took the time I could make it and I would need a caliper no matter which way I go.  I think I am just lazy or have not made that my top pryority yet.  I am still messing with something on the mill every day 7 days a week but just not that.  Yesterday was the first day I didn't atleast spend 2 hours and sometimes 12 hours on the mill.  Today all I did was make a half pallot to put boards on.  I canned 5 quarts of peaches though.

You know I love you guys ideals

Keep it coming.
gww

[Ox]

Good, cheap info to be had here, that's for sure.  People have already sharpened this way and here's another testament to it working.
If I were you gww, find a cheap rotary tool (check Craigslist) and do what Kbeitz is doing.  Then figure out a setter of some sort and you'll have at least twice the life out of your blades.  If you pull them when you notice they're getting dull you should get around 6 times the life.  It's more messing around but it's saving you money.
There's two forms of currency in this world - time and money.  If you don't have one you better have the other!  ;)
Only one thing I would do different.  I would hit the full gullet to get rid of microscopic cracks that form there.  This is the leading cause of blade breakage.  Grind the cracks away before they get bigger equals longer lasting blades.

[gww]

Ox
I don't know if this is worth reading but I read it again yesterday.

http://www.cookssaw.com/index.php/sawmill-blade-insight/the-real-scoop-on-gullet-grinding

My take on it is it doesn't help to grind the gullet but it doesn't hurt and it really helps if it means you are always getting the other part sharp for cutting sooner so the stresses are less in the gullet.

They may just be hyping a product, but it sorta makes sence that sharpining often is good.  I would have to sharpen after every single log and near the blade break point usually do.  It has helped but may still not be soon enough or sharp enough.

I may never get total life that could be expected if you believe the bounce factor to the level the above link believes it.
Thanks and hope to hear more thoughts from you.
gww

Ps to your point, getting rid of the cracks is like in glass, you try to stop it before it spreads.

[Ox]

Well I'll be DanGed.  That's the first time I've read about that.  It makes sense too.  Now everything I've been taught is upside down.  But I still have to get the gullet when sharpening to keep the profile correct for "optimal" sawdust removal.  It just appears that it isn't as important for the reasons I thought.  Very interesting article, thanks for sharing that!
I'm thinking that even it the complete tooth/gullet profile changes (gets shallower) when not getting the gullet, those of us with smaller, homemade mills will probably not even notice or hardly notice the difference when the gullet gets shallower from just sharpening the tooth itself.
It's the same thing with not having razor sharp mower blades.  Sure, it helps and is nice being that way but dull blades cut too.  Things don't have to be laser precise to work with milling and this article kind of confirms that.  Keep them halfway sharp with decent set and they'll cut!  End of story!  :D

[gww]

I have read so much stuff I can't keep up.  Then real life and your spicific situation is taken into account.  It is nice to go for perfection but doesn't work well for a just good enough type guy.  I have little issues that I decide to live with because to fix them at times is a case of diminishing returns.  It doesn't mean that certain things wouldn't help, just that for my needs they wouldn't help enough to justify doing them.

I do want the (like you said) cheap things I can do to get a bit of improvement and am always on the look out for those types of things.

I know the guys who have employees they are responcible for and famliys that relie on there ability need to take the little efficiancys to a higher level if they want to survive.  I get to pick and chose.  I am losing money on this hoby except for that I don't have to count my time at all and that helps make up for some of the loss.

I have all these things we talked about today in my mind and will watch for oppertunity on all fronts to make improvements but probly based on what I see from now and need the worst.  Translation: I will be danged slow about it.

I am still glade to know what to watch for and try.
Thanks
gww

[Kbeitz]

Well I have been a machinist all or most of my life.
I do a lot of welding and fabricating. So I know a little about metal stress.
I also do metal hardening and I have my own oven made to do this.
My opinion on this is any metal will develop stress and cracks when moved or bent many times.
This is why some things should be bolted together instead of welded. It needs to move.
Every time your blade runs around the wheels it's bent back and forth.
Metal can only take this for so long. I think the reason is happens in the gullet is because thats
the spot with less metal so it's the easiest part of the blade to bend.
So I think most of the bending of the blade is in done in the gullet.
I don't think any amount of grinding going to change that.
The only way it might help is you might be removing a small crack that starting to grow.
But if a crack has started that means that part of the blade is the easiest and weakest part
and you not going to stop it from bending at that point so your crack will continue anyway.
Just my $0.02...

[pineywoods]

OK guys, looks like you have a sort of handle on sharpening. Sharp is important, but so is set.
go here and build yourself one of these.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50749.0.html

Takes care of the set problem with just about zero expense.

[gww]

Piney
I have read your thread numerous times and also your thread on the log turner.  I love that you shared.  The guy on ebay is selling your design for 35 bucks free shipping.  It has been on my to do list but what I was saying above is lazyness and inertia is getting in the way.  I am throwing nothing away and if the motor doesn't blow there will be a day that I tackle this.  I might even remember to by the cheep plastic caliper you mention.  I don't go to the store unless under duress and that usualy screws my brain up and I forget to buy half the stuff I need.  I do intend to adress this and your method will be how.  I do thank you for posting.  Also as stupid as it sounds for a guy that made his own chicken plucker (me) I do have this erge to buy the ebay one and be done with it with out the work even though free with the stuff I have laying around makes more sence.

I do shop better on line than in a store if shipping doesn't kill me.

I still love that you post these things.  Log turning is one of the real buggers for me on my mill.  I don't at this time think I will be cutting enough to justify adding it for what, about 1000 bucks but glad it is there incase I change my mind.

Ox in this thread has pointed your setter out to me in an earlier post. 

Ox is on the ball.  Piney I will be watching your post like always.
Thanks
gww
Ps piney I also saw your bridge.  I steal as many ideals as i need and it may also come in handy on my dads place.

[Ox]

Piney is one of the "men" on here as in "you're the MAN!"    I wish I had his mind and a new body and I'd be unstoppable.

[gww]

Two updates.

My tension bolt set up went south on me.  I just could not get a nut to stay welded to a metal plate.  Today I just ground off most of the weld crud and cut up a sissor jack and welded the metal I left attached to the sissor jack to the plate I was trying to weld the nuts to.  I used the stick welder and a 6011 rod and it seems to have welded easy.  My cheapness may still come back to get me.  I had two sissor jacks, One heavy and one light.  I just couldn't make myself cut up the heavy one so used the light one.  The one bennifit of the light one is it has a swivil handle attached to it.  That is handy and since I am losing my stearing wheel I was using to tighten my tension, it is noce to have something that is attached and can't be lost (if it holds up).

Either way I am thankfull for little johns build thread (I think I got that right).  I would have never thought of the jack otherwise.  Time will tell if it is an improvement and if it holds up.

I also did buy the $35 tooth setter off ebay.  It was supposed to come with a instruction vidio but didn't.  It does however seem to be made well enough and was not something I wanted to tackle cause it has 4 nuts welded on it and I am having no luck welding nuts.  I have ran one of my bad blade through it twice now and then put it on the mill.  I am basicaly doing it by trial and error as I still have not bought a caliper.  I was haveing no luck getting it set enough to get the blade to stop diving and come in the house and look on the internet on where I should be trying to get the bend.  I believe I have my answer from looking at a cooks vidio on their single setter.  He said it should bend close to the gullet cause it is heat treated above that and that you have to over bend due to it springing back some.  I am only trying to do one side of the blade at this time.  The blade is really sharp but has no set on the wheel side.  I have four blades that I may get some use out of if I can get them cutting strait.  Another interresting thing that the vidio said was the set being perfect is not really that important as long as it makes it cut wide enough to clear the blade body.

Well I am about done sweating and ready to hit it again.
gww

[gww]

Two poor grade pictures to go with the above post.

I am going to miss the cool looking steering wheel.



 



I know, a really poor picture of the setter and a heck of a mess around it.


 

A couple of thoughts.

The tension bolt works well enough or is differrent enough to change my blade tracking with out bending the bolt.  So I guess it is working well.

I did get the old blade to quit diving buy putting quite a bit more set in it.  I guess my third time of doing it was the charm.

The setter in the vice is really hard on your hands and I am getting blisters in a couple of places. I also found that rather then lossening the vice enough to drag the points past the setting bolts, it worked better just lossening the vice a little and raising the blade in the setter high enough that you are dragging the body of the blade past the setting bolts.  Every time I hit a snag the other way, I was losing count and had to get the flash light out and find my last place I had set the blade.

Over all it worked so I have no complaints.

I did only try all this out on a 1.5 inch board but think every thing is working well and that I am going to get some use out of the old blades that I had ruined the set on in the beginning of my mill build.  As cheap as I am, I am not mad that I bought the setter from ebay instead of making it.  I am learning more a bit at a time.
Thanks for reading this.
gww

[Ljohnsaw]

<<snip>>
Either way I am thankful for little johns build thread (I think I got that right).  I would have never thought of the jack otherwise.  Time will tell if it is an improvement and if it holds up.
<<snip>>
gww

:D Never looked at my user name that way.  You're welcome - scissor jacks (ACME thread) are made for pushing and pulling, a regular bolt thread is not and wears out quickly.

I was trying to set up a user name on another forum (35,000 users) and, of course, John was taken.  So I tried adding part of my last name (JohnSaw), but that was taken :(.  So I added my first initial and came up with LJohnSaw.  To keep my life simple, I use the same name just about everywhere.  On this forum, it kind of takes on a new meaning - Little John Saws :D :D, though I don't think of myself as little, I like food too much.

[East ky logging]

Glad the setter worked out. Salvage a few blades and you come out ahead of what you spent

[gww]

ljohn
That shows my memory.  I am glad you used all the smileys.  I also believe you posting your build has bennefitted me.  Thank you

East
I agree on the cost of the setter.  I just couldn't make myself tackle it myself.  I wish I could find some cheap blades at the scrap yard like Kbietz did durring his build.  I would play with them till I started ruinning too many logs then I would buy new again.  I like learning what might work and consider the cost part of my education.
Thanks
gww

[Ox]

For what it's worth, gww, too much set is better than not enough set.  Too much will rob you of horsepower in the cut and leave lots of sawdust on the boards but will always cut.  Not enough will bind and pinch in the cut, robbing you of horsepower and heating the blade and causing wavy cuts.  I would rather brush sawdust off from straight boards than looking at cleaner, wavy boards.

[gww]

Ox

I would rather brush sawdust off from straight boards than looking at cleaner, wavy boards.

Agreed, thanks for the advice.  Doing the set by guess puts me in an odd position for awhile.  I have one old blade that was diving and is cutting strait now but I only really worked on one side of the blade.

I then adjusted the other side by just trying to get close to the side I adjusted to fix the diving blade.  I did the blade that was still cutting good with these settings.  I want to do the other 3/4 blades ahead of time but need to cut with the blade to see if I did something funky to it.  The testing to see if what you are doing takes some time and doesn't in the beginning let you stock pile.

I helped dad fix a bathroom floor today and I got another log.  My uncle pushed a tree down with his back hoe.  I hauled it on my pickup.  My back is hurting so bad from bending working on the floor all day I don't know if I will get to it or not.  I had nothing but a "two by" to try my setting on so far. It is 100 degrees and I have to work on a differrent floor tommorrow.  It will be funny if my back goes out right when they are starting the lake build next week and I need to be healthy the most.

I am sitting in the basement cooling off and thinking about it.
Thanks
gww

[Ga Mtn Man]

Looks like someone is selling "pineywoods" setters on ebay.  I guess he shoulda patented it.

[gww]

Yep,  the guy said he made it with the help of forums.  I wanted to make it but didn't have the skill.  I had read as many of pineys threads as posible just cause he shares so many ideals.
Cheers
gww

[East ky logging]

Hope you get to feeling better.

[gww]

east
Except for really hurting all over and more when I just get up from sitting, I am not really hurt now.  There have been times though when it went from this to something really bad.  I am not expecting that but have a really lot of work comming and am scared that murphy might be just around the corner.

I am just a wimp and should not have said anything. 

I do thank you for your very kind thoughts.
gww

[gww]

I thought I would update what my saw has did for me so far. 
Here is a picture of the lake where I got all my logs during its build. 


 


After one rain where we got about 5 inches.  See half of the logs piled up by the cedar in the field.


 


What I am doing with the mill and logs so far.
Outhouse, I just love the cut up tire door hinges, they work great.


 


Poor picture of inside.


 


My version of a club house,  An office trailer with a pavilion built over it with an upper deck and an insulated bedroom on top of trailer.  Had to buy 6 4x4 and 20 2x4s cause my mill only cuts 13 feet long.  The rest of the boards are what I cut.


  

 

Perhaps this is not much in the big picture but I am still kind of proud of it.  You guys are still welcome to laugh at me if you feel like it.  I am just a slob and don't mind if you get enjoyment out of me .
Cheers
gww

Ps
This is how I get the logs to my house.

 
Dodge diesel

[Magicman]

I ain't laughing, I like it.   8)

[gww]

Thanks magic
gww

[bates]

Love the outhouse.  All ya need is a Sears/Roubuck catalog!

[tmarch]

I've watched your progress and frankly I'm impressed with you build and use of your resources, nice job. 8)