iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Wood-fueled mill

Started by dboyt, June 01, 2007, 10:27:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dboyt

Greetings!
I've been a "lurker" on the forum for a while, but am new to posting.  By way of introduction, I'm a writer for Sawmill & Woodlot magazine, & was the announcer (and general lackey for setting up and tearing down) at the Shoot-Out.  I manage a patch of timber in southwest Missouri & run a portable band mill in my spare time.  Equpment includes a D2 Cat, 8N Ford, an assortment of both red & gray chain saws.  Building a solar kiln from a 20' shipping container.
Current big project is in getting a mill to run on wood.  Using pyrolysis to heat wood to make charcoal & wood gas to run a genset to power an electric mill.  I believe electric is the way to go, as it will allow the production and consumption of gas to take place away from the mill (lots of CO in it), keep noise down, allow use of the grid when the gassification system is down, and (hopefully) accept surplus electricity.  I'd like to hear from anyone who has experience along these lines.
By the way, I'm always looking for ideas for articles.  If there's something you'd like to see, or know about, drop me a line.  Or stop by.  I enjoy talking trees & machines, & coffee's always on!
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

sawguy21

Greetings and welcome to the forum. I don't have any answers to your question but do know of at least one large mill that uses hog fuel to run their steam plant. They are virtually self sufficient for power and take waste from surrounding mills which helps them and keeps the truckers busy.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

GF

Wood gasification was something I have also thought about, I would like to figure out a good way to filter the unburned fuel (smoke) prior to entering the intake.  I have thought about experimenting on a smaller scale with a 10HP engine, replacing the gas carburator with a custom built carb for wood gasification.  I know internal combustion engines are able to run on unburned fuel that comes from burning wood, I am just not sure how much it would take to run a large generator.

It has been on my mind for a year or two of experimenting on this also.

GF

GF

Tried to PM you the below link but kept getting page could not be found.

Not sure if you seen this website but more than likely you already have done some research about wood gasification and are aware of it.  Thought I would pass it along just in case your not.

http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/executive_summary.shtml

Fla._Deadheader

 Welcome dboyt

  Go to the Alternate Energy topics board. Member Paul-h is building a wood burning truck system. LOTS of photos.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

JSNH

In 1982 I saw a foley bell saw mill running on woodgas. I think it was a foley a small circular mill and the power plant was a chevy in line 6. Wood gas looked problematic. You would be spending more time processing the fuel than cutting lumber. In the 90's professor Hill at the University of Maine was working on a wood gas generator that would use sawdust and power an electric generator. He was working in conjunction with Dumont Manf. who made the Dumont wood boilers. I saw the prototype when I picked up my wood furnace. I think the prototype was running a v8 motor. I do not know what happened with that project dumont went under 10 years ago.

solidwoods

Studied it a bunch.
Filter through water.
Cool the gas and get more concentration of the hydrogen.
You will only get about 50% of the rated hp from the engine.
Yes a vehicle can be run on wood chips, junk mail, etc.  we get free wood chips from a tree svc.

The automobile engine is not the best engine to use, but right now its the best we can think of.

Our plan is to use the woodsmoke to run a gen, use the elec and engine water heat.

Now we use a wood fired water heater to run the kilns (2.5k and 10k bf)

jim
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

jpgreen

Gasification has been on my mind for some time, and near and dear to my heart.  We live off the grid and backup power generation is a real concern as fuels are so expensive, and I don't like being dependant on our governmental oil politics, specially since we live in the forest.

I've been following this technology for bout' 5 years, and as soon as I can I will start in and build a gasifier. Being able to run a mill would be icing on the cake.

I've also mulled around a design in my head to build a guillotine to slice chunks from branches.  Chunk sized wood is the most efficient and cleanest burning form for a wood gasser, and a hydraulic guillotine would process a pile of fuel quickly. Someone also makes a chipper, that produces chunks.  Pricey, but faster yet.

My father-in-law has given me a big old Lincoln Arc Welder with a flathead 4 cyl 1500 rpm gas engine.  That would make for a good woodgas project, and I think it will be my first.  Another serious consideration is tar in the oil, and certain species of wood tend to be worse offenders.  I believe toilet paper filter element bypass filters will take care of much of the problem.

I hope we can keep this subject alive here on the FF, as when I can make the move, I'm going to contribute much time to this project. Woodgas can truly be an answer to sustain remote independent living...  8) 8) 8)
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

dboyt

Here's a great source of info of all kinds of obsolete technologies, including gen gas.  There's one book by a guy that makes charcoal & uses the gas to run a small generator.  This is the sort of thing I'm looking to do, on a larger scale.  This gas has higher fuel content that the old gen gas units, because the wood is heated in a closed chamber (pyrolysis), so there is much less nitrogen diluting the gas.

http://www.lindsaybks.com/

An interesting (sort of sad) note-- a the first result of a search on Yahoo for "wood fueled sawmill" was an article written in 1982 (by me).  C'mon  SOMEONE's gotta be doing SOMETHING!
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Paul_H

Quote from: dboyt on June 03, 2007, 10:11:48 PM

An interesting (sort of sad) note-- a the first result of a search on Yahoo for "wood fueled sawmill" was an article written in 1982 (by me).  C'mon  SOMEONE's gotta be doing SOMETHING!

dboyt,

I'm a little confused,what is different about an engine running a mill on woodgas as opposed to a engine in a truck,running on woodgas? :)
Wayne Keith in Alabama runs one of his trucks on charcoal and he injects water for  added hydrogen.

Here are three of his systems.He has built and operates his own circle sawmill but it doesn't run on woodgas at this time but it wouldn't be a stretch.
I see you were on the gasification list so you already know about Doug Williams and Tom Reed.And there are many others in Finland,Sweden,India and North America working on these systems.

The sad part is most people keep there cards close to their chest and don't want to share any information so there is a lot of wheel reinventing going on.
Thankfully there are a few people like Wayne,Mike LaRosa and Greg Manning(who is a new member) that don't mind sharing what they know.






Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

jpgreen

Whoa... who's gassers are those?......  8)
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Paul_H

Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

jpgreen

Outstanding Paul..  8)

Shoulda known this stuff was already being done on the FF..  ;D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Paul_H

JP,
there is a guy named Bill out in Californy that runs gasification weekend workshops once in awhile.PM me if you're interested and I'll find his e-mail address.

Here is a link to the gasification list.At the end of May,the subject of tar came up.This link should put you there and the posts to do with tar are towards the bottom of the page.

Link
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

jpgreen

That would be great.  What part of the great golden state is he located?
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Paul_H

I was wrong,it's Jim and he is in San Francisco.There is a Bill but he's in NY :)
How far is SF from you?

Link
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

jpgreen

Checked out the site late last night Paul, and was I dilerious or did he say they were doing a woodgas conversions in nearly a one day class?..   ???  I didn't know they could do anything that fast in San Francisco..  :D

My home is about 5 hours from SF, but I'm working on a remodling project in Sacramento right now, and that's only an 1.5 hours away. I do have a close friend at home that has a new sweety that's a teacher in SF, and he goes down there for weekends.  He's a long time (25yrs) experienced logger up here, and probably would be interested in the class also.

I'm definitely interested. Man- that would take a lot of the guess work out of the equation..  8)
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Larry

Quote from: dboyt on June 01, 2007, 10:27:01 AM
By the way, I'm always looking for ideas for articles.  If there's something you'd like to see, or know about, drop me a line.  Or stop by.  I enjoy talking trees & machines, & coffee's always on!

Welcome dboyt, recognised your name most quick from your S & W articles over the years.

I run up and down hwy 71 couple times a month.  Got a couple of ideas for articles...maybe we can get together for lunch one of these days.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Thank You Sponsors!