Help with a dig pattern.

[Jeff]

How would you approach this considering I am using a backhoe. The boat is a 12ft john boat.  The Peninsula is the original dig spoil pile. Im. Going to drag the top off that flat and leave it about a foot higher than high level, and about 12'-14'  wide.



 

 

 

 

[Jeff]

This is where I want create a hill that separates the view from the field to the south, the direction the boat is pointing is more southeast



 

[chet]

My first question is if you have a good trash pump to evacuate water from your hole. It will make digging easier until you make the connection to your existing pond.

[Jeff]

Great point. My feeble brain never thought of pumping as it struggled with what if water. The pond is basically a big swale. You get rain and, much of the front property runs that way.

[doc henderson]

I assume you want to clean out the existing pond after so dig the extension deep so it can hold all the water and fish and frogs.  It may not seal off for a while.  but you can add clay to help.  (bentonite).

[Walnut Beast]

How deep are you going to go. I know you plan on digging it yourself but if you could get a local guy with a big excavator in for one day then you fine tune and move the dirt that would be a big help but if not get some long days in and getter done 

[Crusarius]

use the backhoe to break it up and the bucket to scoop it and move it. Make sure you have something to pull you out when you get stuck.

[rusticretreater]

I would probably try to create a trench from one end of the area to the other wide enough to drive the FEL through.  The walls will always be caving in to assist you in the removal.  You can shave off dirt from the sides with the bucket making the trench wider and wider.  Go down a couple of feet for each layer and repeat.

If you have a trench through it, you can scoop up dirt and keep on going around to where you want to dump it to make the hill.  And if you get stuck going one way, you can always try to go the other way to get out.

[bags]

I dig ponds up here with a small (26 ton) lattice boom P&H crane with a 3 yard dragline bucket. Do the wet side and dry without get'in stuck.

[Resonator]

Reading the title I thought you were figuring out how to run Cat and Deere control pattern. ;D

A lot of the excavator guys online will dig the new section of pond, and leave a wall/dam between the new and old pond. Once everything is dug and graded to their liking, they "open the flood gates". 

Back when I was a kid around here they would build ponds just with a dozer. They'd scrape out the center, and make a bowl shape with the dirt pushed up onto the banks. Tracking and packing as they went, and grading a flat path circling around the top.

[chet]

How deep do you plan to dig it?

[Jeff]

I'd like to have a spot about 8-9 feet deep so it can support inhabitants that find it in the winter, but mostly 3 or 4 like the rest of the pond. I have zero fill for leveling trails, so that eventually can go there. First order of business is to groom the dirt piles around the pond. Heck, after doing that, I may want to leave it that while and see how that goes. Ive got no agenda.

[chet]

Doing that other work first is a good idea, as then you will be able to better assess what you and that hoe can accomplish. Two wheel drive and wet slimy clay are not a good combination. 
If you find you are able to move around good, with a good bucket full of dirt, yer well on yer way ta a new pond extension.

[Jeff]

Footage from when I took the pics above the pond.

A Remote U.P. Cabin kind of Monday - YouTube

[Patrick NC]

There are a couple of ways to approach digging that with a backhoe. Without being there to assess ground conditions I'm just shooting in the dark though.  First option is start along the future peninsula digging parallel to the pond bank casting your spoils 90 degrees to the side away from the pond. Make this a 10 foot wide trench to the final depth you want making sure to leave a dam between the existing pond and your new excavation. Then you bucket your spoils pile to the berm area near the field.  Repeat as many times as needed to get desired width.  The other way is much the same except you start at the farthest point away from your future berm and dig perpendicular to the existing pond bank, casting spoils 90 degrees towards the berm.  Remember to leave the "dam" between you and the existing pond. Whichever method you use, you need to keep the backhoe on the highest (hardest) ground you have when you're transporting material with the front bucket.  Also try not to travel the same path every time. The more you run in the same tracks,  the more you risk making ruts and getting stuck. Be sure to start this project during your dry season.  When I used to live in the North Country of upstate new York that meant August/September.  
If ground water becomes a problem dig a 2 foot deep sump in your lowest area and pump from there to a point downhill of your work area.

[Jeff]

Getting to know the machine by taking the spoils and widening the dyke to a safer flater width for a tractor. A little hairy. I'm used to articulating machines that turn much differently.


 

 

 

 

 

[aigheadish]

I'm by no means a pro but I've messed around with my pond some and with digging holes in the yard. If it were me, and I may get it wrong, I'd be starting as close to the existing pond as possible while still leaving enough material to not let the existing side fill in the new side. Pointing the hoe in the same direction as the boat (in your first pictures) I'd be digging to depth parallel along the new peninsula and dropping dirt to the right, then occasionally moving your big pile of dirt to where you want the new hill to be (looks to be a straight shot), basically going straight into that pathway for the hill, all the way to the far end of it (the top end of the orange in your 6th picture, but really either path, top end or bottom end of the orange would work), then back out back to your pile. Depending on the height of the hill you'll need a lot of loader buckets full of dirt. You can either create the hill by a lot of short layers that you drive over to dump more but I'd probably dump to the hill height you want, smash it all down as possible with the hoe side, then repeat a lot of times. If your material is wet the layers won't work very well, as you'll be rutting it out as you drive over it.

You'll have to figure out where you want your deep end to be. Here, in my yard, things start getting soggy around 6-8 feet deep but I don't know that I'd want to be driving on material 4 or 5 feet deep, and that's only when things are dry dry. I'd want to stay as high and dry as I could and end up moving around a lot to cover small but sufficiently deep spots. I'm usually digging a hole 10+ feet deep and probably 15' wide by 8-10' across in a couple hours, then moving the pile, then doing it again. The dirt from that size hole doesn't cover as much lateral ground as you may expect. I've covered the barn floor (40' x 48') in about a foot and a half deep dirt and it's likely taken 100 trips? I didn't count but it was much more than I expected, then it needed compacted and added to.

If you haven't learned it yet you should practice changing machine positions by using the hoe bucket instead of driving it to a new spot. Keep your stabilizers about 6" off the ground, lift your loader bucket a little, and lift the hoe side with the hoe bucket and slowly move the bucket to the side to change your angle of attack. You should also practice dragging the machine or pushing the machine with the hoe. When you are stuck on your belly (and you will be!) it will be very important to get used to the feel of moving the machine around with the hoe. I've been stuck enough that I've had to lift the machine very high out of a hole and it can be terrifying. With your 4 stick machine (I think!) and foot controlled swing (I think again!) you should really get used to using them without jerking things around, especially that swing (remember that lower rpms can be your friend too to help make things a bit more controllable). You'll want very slow, controlled movements, otherwise the machine feels like it'll tip over. I've also learned the hard way that wet ground doesn't give much ability to drag your way out of sticky situations. You'll reach out with the hoe bucket and it'll just pull the wet dirt toward you, and not give any firm purchase with which to drag yourself out. I really can't emphasize this paragraph enough, you'll get stuck. It could get scary. I've spent hours unsticking myself before. I've broken 4000 lb. chains trying to unstick. Out in the middle of nowhere you'll be the only help you have to get free. The last time I got stuck I had to use the loader edge to push myself while using the hoe to pull at the same time, and using the stabilizers to set down on any firm piece of ground to keep from sliding back into my ruts. Wear your seatbelt!

This is a fun project!

[Don P]

And do be mindful of edges and collapsing the banks. They are kind of clumsy to drive, but those scoops make it worthwhile. its looking good. i like to have a whack of 2x material around soft ground.

those are highly valuable slabs, any port in a storm 


 

[aigheadish]

Ya know, Don P, I have some decent piles of wood sitting around and I'd never thought to use them to unsink me... Thank you for that note. I have thought of sheets of plywood to drive on to avoid sinking or ruts. 

[Stephen1]

Looks like a great summer project. 

[Big_eddy]

I'd use the same approach as Patrick NC. I want my backhoe to stay as high and dry as possible at all times. I'd start at one end of the dike and dig a  trench parallel to it, putting the spoils to the side away from the dike and moving forward 5-10 feet at a time until I hit the other end. Carry the spoils away, then park where the spoils last were and repeat the process. This is not a one weekend project, so unless the ground is sandy and high and dry (what pond is?) the hole is likely going to fill with water over time. If you're lucky, the water level will stay low in the new hole, but more likely it will rise to match the existing pond level. If you can dig a (temporary) drainage ditch to a lower area to allow it to drain while the hole is being dug, great! If not, then plan on a trash pump. You will have little to no success trying to dig the pond if it's full of water. And if you have an empty 4' deep hole next to where you are parked digging and placing the spoils, your chances of not getting stuck improve. Advantage of starting next to the dike is that you can quit at any point, cut the dam and let the larger pond fill. If you start at the far side, you are committed to digging the whole hole before you have a bigger pond.

I suggest having several railroad ties handy. When you sink beyond pulling yourself out with the hoe, or pushing yourself out with the bucket, put one under the bucket and use downpressure to lift your front wheel out of a hole. Put one under each stabilizer to lift the rear wheels out of their holes. Then lay a few under the wheels and drive out over top of them. Rinse and repeat to solid ground. And remember - every trip over the same path softens it more. If you wondered if you would make it through on that last pass - DON'T try that route again! I've sunk 4x4 backhoes well below the belly pans, so believe me - thinking "just one more load" is asking for trouble.

[Jeff]

You guys are all giving me some great advice!! Thankyou!!

[Mooseherder]

You will know your machine well at the end of the project.

[Southside]

And it's likely you will know new and creative ways of getting un stuck.  I put a couple of heavy duty "D" rings on my excavator so I always have a place to hook to. It only makes it worse when you are stuck and have to dig out a place on the machine to hook a chain. 

[beenthere]

Keep in mind that timber mats that are of a size your hoe can lift and move could be very helpful. Will depend on just how versitile your hoe is and your soil conditions. 

Might be able to saw some up, but think you (Jeff) have past experience with them on your trails. iirc