Chainsaw Accidents

[timberturner]

this is a poll to see how chainsaw accidents happen

i Just got my first "real" saw , just like a previous poster (066)and using a much smaller weekend saw, I always used caution and respecteed the saw...

i guess what i'm asking you pro sawyers is for experiences you've had where one second you're cutting away, and the next you've been nicked... HOW did it happen , in your own words...

Thanks

[Kevin]

There`s a short list of things to do and not to do.
Fatigue,being careless and ignorance of just not knowing the hazards of using a chainsaw will get you hurt or killed if you aren`t so lucky.
That combined with related hazards such as cutting a spring pole, having a widow maker fall from the sky or have a tree barber chair makes the job of using and operating a chainsaw one of the most dangerous jobs out there.
Usually these accidents are preventable.
I have never been cut but I have been hit in the face by a tree but continued working thanks to my hardhat and face shield.

[Tillaway]

Ther are really two kinds of saw injuries IMHO.

Cuts and crunchings.  I have been nicked numerous times, always thrown chains.  Any time you cut brush, lop slash, limb, percommercial thin (spacing for the Canadians) then you run a real risk of saw cuts and you will throw chains.  All these activities require saw chaps or you will cut your leg eventually and often.  Thrown chains will hit you every where you are vulnerable, hands neck, arms you... name it.  I have also caught the end of small pieces of wood and had the chain throw them at me... it really hurts.

Crunching on the other hand are serious.  Most Fallers out West have been crunched at least once and often it is fatal.  I have had my crunching and I was in bed staring at the ceiling for 6 weeks after I got out of the hospital.  What you are cutting often has more potential to really hurt you than the obvious one you are doing the cutting with.

[Frank_Pender]

Keep your cutting area clear of entanglements with the bar and chain as well as yourself.  Tillaway, alluded to that idea.  You will find that when there is hunger, being tired, in a hurry, or simply not paying attention to the task, "IT" happens so fast you almost don't know why, how or evenif something did occure to hurt you.  I have had many an Oak barber-chair, always in the know that it would occure, but never injured.  I did have about 5 stitches near the knee-cap about 30 years ago.  It was simply not clearing the brush away to allow freedom of movement with self and saw. Another thing, do not be cutting unless you can give saw operation you complete and total atention.  Preoccupied with youself, wife, kids other job, etc is opening the door to injury to yourself or others.

[Frank_Pender]

Postscript:  Always check you saw for good operation condition.  Are the fuel lines all secure, spark arrestor working correct, chain-brake working, fuel pump working right, correct tention on chain (not toooo loose),nose sprocket and bar not worn or mis-alligned, no holes in your muffler.  These are just a few things that can cause you to not keep full attention to saw operation and cause havoc for yourself or others.

[Tom]

The one time I was injured it was minor, thank God.  I was clearing roadway through pines and heavy underbrush. The temperature was hot, I was thirsty and tired and being rushed by a mobile home mover.  The chain on my chainsaw would turn at idle because my idle was too high.  I was catching my breath and rested the saw against my thigh......zip.........my trousers were torn.  Then I noticed some blood so I disrobed and found a trough about the size of a pencil and 3 inches long had been cut just above my left knee.  I pulled it together with a couple of bandaids and luckily don't even have a scar.  

But, I think of it often and it's scary.  I could have cut a muscle, a vein or something else near and dear to my heart that resides in the vicinity. :-/

Now, I keep the saw adjusted properly; and when I'm tired, I turn it off and put it down.  I also don't let someone else pressure me. >:(

[timberturner]

is that where the cut tree falls unpredictably ?

[Kevin]

Read this page ...
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/manual/felling/cuts/dangers/dangers.html

[Bro. Noble]

Timberturner,

I would sure get a video, literature, or supervised hands on experience with an expeienced logger before you learn some of this stuff the hard way.

Things that can get you in trouble fast if you don't know the proper techniques are leaning trees and hollow trees.  Before you start your cut, clean the area and pick out your escape route.  Check for widow makers and vines.  Last winter a grape vine almost got me.  It was way high in the tree, must have come from an adjoining tree at some time in the past because the root was 20 feet away.  When the tree fell, the vine knocked me down, if it had pinned me under it, it would have cut me in two.

Spring poles were mentioned.  Learn how to cut these the correct way or they will hurt you.  you can't believe the power in even a small sapling until one hits you or knocks the saw out of your hands.

It's already been mentioned but is important enough to repeat.  If you get tired or can't concentrate on what you are doing for any reason----QUIT before you get hurt.

Think safety 100% of the time you are logging.

Noble

[Tom]

Ouch!   That hurts.

The base of the tree is now a very dangerous area because the trunk can fall off of the stump.

A friend of mine caused one of these and being not satisfied with his ill felling techniques tried to take the tree on down.  The split closed when the tree began to fall and, somehow, caught his head in the split.  He lived but almost lost an ear and his head was scratched up something awful.  It took his father and brother some time to figure out how to get him extracted, all the time not knowing the extent of his injuries.  His father thought he was dead.

[timberturner]

i will check out the site recommended, but the illustration that described a "barbers chair", looks like the first two cuts weren't made properly,

what am i missing

someone mentioned videos,,, could you recommend a source?

thanks a million
btw, are there any minnesotans on this board that might be able to steer me towards some red cedar logs , just a couple is all  i need

thanks

tom

[Bro. Noble]

In Tom C's diagram you are correct in that the tree wasn't notched.  This is one reason for notching.

If you are cutting a species that is prone to split such as northern Red Oak, and the tree is leaning just a little; you sometimes can't cut the back cut fast enoughto prevent a barberchair even with the proper notching and an 066.  On leaning trees you use a plunge cut procedure after notching.

I got a video on safe felling from the Mo. Conservation Comission Forestry Division.  They have an extensive video library with the only cost being the return postage.

Noble

[Tom]

There is a Chainsaw Safety Course on our "sister site" whose link can be found at the bottom of any of the Forum's pages.   The Timber Buyers Network

[Oregon_Rob]

Can you guys expand a bit on how to make the cuts on leaning trees?

[L. Wakefield]

   I had an 'incident' but not an accident the other day. Cutting a VERY small cherry which (sigh) I had incorporated into my fence and with the most recent repair I wanted the (now dead) top off. It had branches and I was cutting at about chest height. It's not an accustomed cutting height for me and I still don't have the unconscious positioning down (I think of sawing as a planned cut with a 'follow through' as the saw is slowing down- a safe place for it to go as the chain is slowing down and (hopefully) stopping (unless the idle is too high as Tom mentioned). There is the chain brake and the kill switch but I generally like to move-er-'smoothly' out of harms' way in a direction I have predicted to be safe with good clear space for feet and blade..

   So- the saw was higher than usual, the tree was prepared to go in the predicted direction- but it's branches caught in those of another tree and so it kind of 'rebounded' toward me and came down at the same time- hit the saw and took it around in a way I hadn't planned. Fortunately I had a good 2 hand grip on the saw and secure footing- and the tree wasn't that heavy. But it was a tangle and I'da hated to have had to try to 'think it thru' while airborne if things had gone worse. Letting go the saw wouldn't have helped. It wouldn't have gone so well if I'd had the saw in only one hand.

   My take-home was to pay more attention to ALL PARTS of the tree and surround- and think more about saw movement as well as body movement in terms of follow through. I generally just think of 'us' moving away as a unit (I kinda brace my elbow against my hip as I'm turning and this gives me about 2' built-in space between the nearest body part and the turning chain) but in this case I had to build in a piece about bringing it down to carrying height. Live n learn.
    :   lw

[Oregon_Rob]

I believe I understand what you are saying, thank you. It makes perfect sense, although I don't  know that I am good enough yet with a saw to make a good plunge, level and parallel to the face cut. But it is not something I am faced with having to do at the moment. I will keep this set up in mind as I am out cutting and work on the skills.

[Jeff]

While I know that there is some great experience on here and there may be some excellant discriptions on techniques for different situations and suggestions on how to do it. I just gotta say it aint enough. No one should take a chainsaw out and start whacking trees from just reading how to do its. There just is no room for that one mistake. Find someone thats knowlegeble to teach you. Make sure that person knows what they are doing and just isnt one of those "Awe, I do it all the time guys".

Take a course. Do everything there is to do before taking that saw out.  

Here is a link to FISTA, The Forest Industry Safety & Training Alliance[/url]

They have training courses and videos. It they are not in your area they will tell you where to go for info. fista@newnorth.net

[Kevin]

LW, that`s common when brushing.
Trees down around your ears at times.  :D
I know you had your hardhat/muffs, face shield , safety boots and chaps on so as long as you had control of the saw with both hands and the chain was stopped you didn`t really endanger yourself but now you know it can happen and will again most likely.

[Kevin]

Rob,
There`s really no single explanation for what you are asking in felling a leaning tree but a tree standing on level ground that leans in the direction you want it to fall can be felled in this manner  ...

Make your face notch
Cut a tunnel behind the hinge by boring straight through the tree
Saw up to the hinge then backwards leaving a heel.
Pull the bar out and cut the remaining heel.
The tree will fall.
Having said this, any leaning tree is under extreme pressure and can be considered unpredictable.
Don`t enter the bore with the upper nose of the bar or kickback will occur.

[DanG]

That's a good illustration and description of the plunge cut method, Kevin.

One thing I have come across a lot is trees that are "limb heavy" on one side. Another problem is, trees that are leaning in the wrong direction, where they have to be dropped opposite to or perpendicular to the direction of lean. I have one of those in my yard that just has to go, but I'm not sure how to go about it safely.  Any input on this?

[ADfields]

DanG
The best thing is to take it a chunck at a time and rope the chunks down.   With that sead you can see you would need to be in the tree with a saw, not all that safe.

Not that this is a safe way eather but it's the way I like beter if ther is a place to land the tree.   I rig the winch as far up the trunk as I can get it, I use a cable choker and a PVC pipe to get it up ther.  I use a 2 ton chain come along as my winch and no rope in this winching line at all as it will need to be very strong.  Next I run 1" ropes around the trunk above the choker for a gide so it cant go left or right and tye off to solid deadmen that cant move on you.   Now if it's a dead tree or could be roten at all you can put a line on the trunk just above the cut you will be makeing so the log but cant go twards the winch whitch would still let it fall the wrong way on you.   Last is the cut which is an upside down hinge cut so the log but cant go twards the winch unless it busts out the side of the stump or jumps off.   This has worked well for me but it would be EZ to have somthing go wrong and the tree fall in the wrong spot but I have never had that hapen to me.  
Andy
 

[Kevin]

Dan,
If it`s close to a building or something you care about you might consider getting a price to fell it from a certified Arborist.  ;)

What I will do on these trees is toss a throw line up high onto the tree, pull a 1/2" bull rope up and use a running bowline to secure the rope on the tree.
I attach the other end of my rope (longer than the tree) to a rope puller and snug it up.
You need a good wide open face notch.
Give it a good healthy hinge and start the back cut, apply tension on the rope and continue with the back cut.
Insert wedges in the back cut if you want.
Apply more tension and you should see the tree straighten up and you can usually pull it over rather than cut the hinge completely through which gives you full control of the tree until it hits the ground.
Of course this is with a healthy tree.
You can practice turning smaller trees with a wedge shaped hinge but the rope method is pretty much fail safe.

[Oregon_Rob]

I agree, the hinge is our friend J. The one thing you have to be careful of when doing what Kevin is describing, is not to pull to hard on the rope. I was doing what he described, I made the back cut part way in and went to pull a little more tension on the rope and just decided to see if I could pull it over with a thick hinge (about three inches on an 18" cherry), and the tree barber chaired on me.
I should have had more faith in the set up and just completed the back cut. It could have been damaging if I had been trying to pull a tree away from a house, the butt could have put a nice dent in the siding.
After the fact, it is easy to understand the mechanics of why it happened.
It just goes to show how the unexpected happens to those of us with little experience.
 :P

[DanG]

Thanks guys. I've been using the rope method for years, but have been criticised for it. I use a 300', 1/2 inch nylon rope, and pull it with my truck, using a snatch block on another tree, if necessary.  I use a spinning rod to get the rope over a limb, so I can put it as high as I like. Having the rope 75' high gives me a huge leverage advantage, and I've never had a failure doing this. I was just a little unsure about the notch and back cut on this leaner. It is about 14" dbh, and still about 12", 50 feet up. It is leaning directly toward my sugar cane mill, and I sure don't want to damage that!   I could drop it 30 to 45 degrees from the direction of lean, but it seems that pulling it over directly opposite the lean would be the safest way.

BTW, the spinning rod trick works really great. I just tie on a weight and toss it over a limb, then winch up a light line with it. Then I use that line to pull up the heavy rope. Since i have 300' of rope, I can pull it all the way back to the ground, go around the tree, and pass the other end through a loop in the first end.  It all takes about 2 minutes, and very little perspiration. ;D

[Oregon_Rob]

Hey,
I like the fishing pole idea, I will use that down the road for something i'm sure! 8) 8) 8)

[Jeff]

I have a lighted star during Christmas in the top of one of my oaks (About 60 foot up). A fishing pole cast wouldnt work, to much line arc which tangled up in the limbs. I connected the fishing line to an arrow and shot it up with the bow. I have a little 30 lb childs bow for just such occasions. Works good if you secure the fishing line well to the arrow.

Oh, dont look away when the arrow is in flight. ;D

[DanG]

Apparently, Jeff, you've been neglecting your fishing.  You gotta practice a lot.  I grew up fishing the creeks and rivers in our jungle-like terrain, and have pretty much perfected the "line of sight" cast. I'm also quite proficient at working my line out of limb entanglements. My  Dad always accused me of fishing for squirrels, when I ended up in the trees. :D

Besides, when we played Cowboys and Indians, I was always the cowboy. I can't figger out how to put a line on a limb with a six-shooter, though. :-/

[firtol88]

Some good stuff in this thread.

heres an updated link to the OSHA site http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/mainpage.html

[Hunter]

Some great info. I really like the idea of the fishing pole and really like the bow and arrow.
I have been using an expnsive sling shot, but these other ideas are great.
Thanks
Hunter

[oldsaw-addict]

There is at least one safety related thing that I have not seen anyone mention here yet, when operating a chainsaw or any other dangerous tool for that matter, you must and I mean MUST be SOBER, NO alcohol before working, maybe after but not before. I only try cutting trees when well rested, on a full stomach, totally sober, fully alert, and completely aware of my surondings. A safe worker is the one that comes out of the woods with few or no injuries at all, an unsafe worker either comes out on a stretcher or in a bodybag because of his errors/ unsafe habits.

[Engineer]

Question about boring the backcut, a few posts back -

How do you bore a leaner that is considerably longer than the bar?  Go in from both sides, hope they meet in the middle?

[beenthere]

That should work okay, as long as you don't destroy the integrity of the hinge or the depth of the strap holding the tree (until you are ready). The bore cuts one over the other will split out between the cuts when the back strap is cut. Just will not be as pretty a butt cut, or stump cut, as most of us like to see (unless you meet both bore cuts perfectly  ;D)

I recently had a leaning white oak, that I bored until the 20" bar just poked through, but in doing so didn't leave enough of the back strap holding this leaner. Before I finished the cut towards the hinge from the 'other' side, the back strap ripped loose, splitting the tree up the first 8 feet. Made the decision for me that it will only be firewood now.  Bummer.

[oldsaw]

Never had a real one, but had a tree chase me around the trunk a couple of times.  Was about 8000 ft of elevation and took down a fir on a fairly steep slope.  When the tree started to tip, a strong gust hit and pushed it back over, where it rolled against another tree, and another, followed by another gust which caught it again, sending it another direction.  By this time I was pretty dang tired of running up and down the slope dancing with the tree, and still didn't know where the thing would end up.

In the end, it fell about 30 degrees off of where it was supposed to, in what was actually probably seconds, but felt like an hour.  There had been no wind all morning, and the winds died down minutes after the tree fell and never returned the rest of the day.  That was probaby the 5th or 6th tree of the morning, every other one was textbook.  My partner just stood and stared, he hadn't seen anything like it either.

[redpowerd]

 ;Dnice

seen something like that in the woods, cept cant talk about the dead :'(

[firtol88]

Never had a real one, but had a tree chase me around the trunk a couple of times.  Was about 8000 ft of elevation and took down a fir on a fairly steep slope.  When the tree started to tip, a strong gust hit and pushed it back over, where it rolled against another tree, and another, followed by another gust which caught it again, sending it another direction.  By this time I was pretty dang tired of running up and down the slope dancing with the tree, and still didn't know where the thing would end up.

In the end, it fell about 30 degrees off of where it was supposed to, in what was actually probably seconds, but felt like an hour.  There had been no wind all morning, and the winds died down minutes after the tree fell and never returned the rest of the day.  That was probaby the 5th or 6th tree of the morning, every other one was textbook.  My partner just stood and stared, he hadn't seen anything like it either.

It was just tryin to make a point, and remind ya who should respect who. :D   I'm not laughin at ya I'm laughin with ya on that one.

[redpowerd]

well, shucks
who respects a saw? ???

[Stan]

I had the wind come up on a windless day and set the tree back on my saw. I got off the flat, and about 30 feet into the woods uphill from the tree. While I was heading back to get my other saw, I heard it crack. DanGed tree fell exactly the opposite way I wanted, and knocked the carb off my log splitter.  :-/ I was scared enough, I didn't need the $100 loss to boot.  :

[iain]

some trees are not ment to be taken down


 wood dwers need some where to go

[iain]

dwellers even more so

[Larry]

Nothing bloody for me yet ;D.  Few saw tracks across the boots when cleaning brush out of fence rows.  Found myself in the bottom of a ditch one time when I didn't pay attention to tension in the tree when I cut the top off.  Cutting the top off the tree is always the scariest thing for me to do.  

Chain brakes – I thought the only purpose was to prevent kickback until I took GOL.  When making a felling cut as soon as the tree starts to go the brake is on with a flip of my wrist.  I can keep an eye on the tree as I go on my escape path.  Walking around a big tree where the bar won't reach through – brake on.  Trimming fences when I walk – brake on.  After a while it becomes automatic and easier than putting on a seat belt in the car.  Maybe a small thing but I hate stitches.  Sorta funny the older I get the safer I get.

[oldsaw-addict]

Nothing bloody for me yet ;D.  Few saw tracks across the boots when cleaning brush out of fence rows.  Found myself in the bottom of a ditch one time when I didn't pay attention to tension in the tree when I cut the top off.  Cutting the top off the tree is always the scariest thing for me to do.  

Chain brakes – I thought the only purpose was to prevent kickback until I took GOL.  When making a felling cut as soon as the tree starts to go the brake is on with a flip of my wrist.  I can keep an eye on the tree as I go on my escape path.  Walking around a big tree where the bar won't reach through – brake on.  Trimming fences when I walk – brake on.  After a while it becomes automatic and easier than putting on a seat belt in the car.  Maybe a small thing but I hate stitches.  Sorta funny the older I get the safer I get.

Hey, safe is better than sorry right? I  hate stitches too, they arent fun. I'll take a minor inconvenience over a major injury anytime, the one that gets me the most is trimming along canals and getting the saw stuck in a tree right above the water, all you can do is get the hatchet out, start chopping and hope the saw doesnt fall on you. I've done things like standing on a tree slip and fall right on another branch that is right below me, its not much fun to do that and hit yourself there, if you get my point.

[Larry]

Things that can get you in trouble fast if you don't know the proper techniques are leaning trees and hollow trees.

Noble,
Think this one is hollow enough?  Black oak always gives me trouble because the hinge wood is brittle and when you get one that is hollow it's real trouble.  Been doing TSI in Arkansas and run into a lot of trees like this up to about 3' dbh.  

[Stan]

Larry I used that brake on method with a Poulan that was hard to start, Wore out the brake band. Had to buy the whole side cover.  :-/ My Husky starts by the third pull hot or cold, I've been turnin it off to move. I think it is just as safe although a bit more tiring.  

[rebocardo]

Try using the lean calculator on the left hand menu. I did one to figure out what I would need to correct a leaning tree I had.

Turns out if the cable is below the center of gravity, the load on the line is almost doubled! In my case that would be almost 8,000 pounds! Well beyond the working liits of 1/4 cable.

Only way to get the load to about 3,000 pounds on the line was to put the line almost at the top of the tree at 60 feet.

re: hollow log
Those are the trees that really scare me. Can look okay and straight on the outside and totally rotted on the inside. A killer for sure.

[sawguy21]

A fellow I worked with, an experienced logger, is now a paraplegic because of a "widow maker". He got careless showing someone how to drop a big spruce and the top hit another tree, snapped off and drilled him. His companion was supposed to be a minimum of 100' from the tree but was standing beside him. Mistake #2
 I am left handed and had a bad habit of drop starting the big saws until one day I noticed a hole in my jeans just below the  bulge in my pocket created by keys and chainge. Never did that again.

[Bruce_A]

If you fall timber, you will make a mistake sooner or later.  I have small scratches on the bones on my leg and a couple scratches on a couple fingers from those accidents before the days of chain brakes and chaps.  However we used to figure  that if you didn't make a mistake once in a while, you wern't doing anything.

[leweee]

Interesting fact : More people are injured from coasting chain than chain under power.

[rebocardo]

> More people are injured from coasting chain than chain under power

In that case, chaps are a good argument.

[Stephen_Wiley]

[size=22]CAUTION........CAUTION[/size]
This procedure should only be performed by a professional saw operator.  If you are learning find a qualified cutter to demonstrate.

Failure to do so, will result in injury, death or property damage.  The tree will barber chair badly if cut wrong.

Other 'unknowns' may also be detected by a professional in 'tree structural weaknesses' which will not be notable to the begginer.

Jeff, has stated this caution very well.......... as another professional I want to emphasize his point.  Get training by a qualified operator before attempting any falling techniques.

[Stephen_Wiley]

Ooooppsss.......

Late at night and I did not finish reading all the posts before posting the above reply.

Sorry guys if the info is redundent. :

[Stephen_Wiley]

[size=22]CAUTION......CAUTION[/size]
NOTE:  The above illustration does not depict all potential problems which may be present in removal.

Cabling up high has not been discussed or depicted in this illustration.

Again this method is only for the qualified.

Cutting is in the reverse order of falling a tree into the lean.