Hiring a Forester

[cmcjr]

A friend of mine is looking at getting some timber taken out of some land and has had a couple of loggers look at the trees and isn't real comfortable with how the conversations have taken place. I asked about the price of the trees to my Dad and Uncle and they suggested getting a Forester to look at the land and make recommendations. Sounds like good advice and probably a good idea for a number of reasons.

Can someone advise me on what they think makes a good Forester, or in other words what are some good interview questions that my friend should be asking? Also what can one expect to pay for the expert advise?

Thanks in advance.

CMCJR

[Texas Ranger]

Talk to your state forest agency and obtain a copy of their approved list.  If you have forester licensing in your state, that will be one good step forward.  If there are members of the Association of Consulting Foresters, ask for their list. 

Questions to ask, ask for client references.  Ask the reference what they did, the cost, and how did they like the transaction.

Foresters charge by the acre, by the hour, by the job, by the contract, a lot of different ways.  Basically, it depends on the job.  On timber sales it is usually a percentage of the sale.  The more you make, they more they make, and it is an inducement to push the sale.  Make sure the forester understands that you want to see the bids on the job.

[Ron Wenrich]

First thing to ask is where he went to school and what type of degree.  You should be hearing that he went to a college with a minimum of a BS in Forest Science. 

Next question is ask about his experience.  If he isn't talking about working for someone else before going into business, I view that as a warning sign.  That means that he couldn't find a job in the business before hanging out his shingle.  Maybe that's not a huge problem, but figuring out forest management on your own quite often doesn't yield as good of results.

Take a walk through the woods with him.  If he hasn't talked about doing a preliminary cruise, then he's going to be working on your woodlot without data.  That's not earth shaking, but its forest management by the seat of your pants.  The preliminary cruise will allow him to see what your stocking levels are currently at and what he would be looking at removing.

Have him point out which trees he's talking about removing.  If every big tree you come to, he starts to talk about money and not reasons for removal, he's looking at just selling timber and not necessarily good forest management. 

If he talks about releasing those surpressed trees that are all crooked and poor looking, don't walk any further.  He's not interested in your woodlot.  Look at what he's talking about leaving, not what he's talking about taking. 

Ask about his bidding process.  Some foresters will market directly to mills without the benefit of bidding.  They still get a fair return, but they aren't doing their job without the bidding process.

Interview more than one forester and take the one you are most comfortable with.

Good question.

[WDH]

If you hire a forester to make the sale, make sure he/she will also supervise the harvest.  Make that a condition of the agreement since the harvest is where many issues can arise.  The forester should be experienced enough to supervise the harvest and make sure it is done well.  Someone that just makes the sale, gets the commission, and walks away letting you deal with the logging is not providing enough value to you since the logging is where the rubber-meets-the-road.

Also, be real sure that your friend understands what the property will look like after it is logged by looking at other harvested areas.  That will help to minimize unspoken and unrealistic expectations.  Get the forester to show you some other harvested areas that he/she believes was logged well and compare your expectations to that standard.

[nsmike]

cmcjr, google up Mn DNR Forestry and look around I believe that you can get a state forester to help your friend. At the very least you can get the number of the closest forestry office. Because most of the forest in SE Mn is privately owned the progams there are all set up to help the land owner.
Mike

[Craig]

Another point is to have your friend define his/her objectives and goals before talking to foresters. Does he want to improve the woodlot or his he looking for a maximum return on this harvest or maybe it is for wildlife habitat. If he knows what he wants from the harvest he will be able to convey that to the forester then when he finds a forester who understands his goals and is comfortable working with him he will get want he wants from the harvest not what the forester or logger wants!

Craig

[Tom]

I agree that the landowner needs to have some goals before he goes into this.  I would not be so concerned about convincing a Logger what I wanted.  Forestry is generally not their forte'.   I would tell the Forester my goals, but, not with the idea of getting what you want as opposed to what the Forester wants.  A good forester will try to leave the land in a condition that will benefit your goals.  That is part of his training.  But to hamstring  him with finite rules and results is countering the purpose of having a Forester on the payroll. 

Like listening to a Doctor, one listens to a Forester because he knows more than we do about the subject.  Just because we don't like what a doctor tells us about our illness and prognosis, doesn't mean that we are better off ignoring him.

[WDH]

I agree with Tom about seriously taking the forester's advice into account.  Trees are a long term investment, and if you don't do things right, it takes decades to correct.  A case in point that I am all too familiar with is thinning pine plantations.  The trees need space to grow and develop to their potential.  Most of the time, there are not enough trees removed in the thinning, so the resultant growth per tree that is left is too slow, and the landowner is growing lower value pulpwood rather than higher value sawlogs.  Trees are not like corn that comes to crop maturation in one year, so they don't need to be managed like corn.

Hardwoods are much more tricky and finiky than pine.  They are also a longer term proposition.  It is much easier to mis-manage a hardwood stand.  You have to be thinking 20 to 30 years ahead in everything that you do.  Many landowners do not think past their present need or objective.

[Ron Wenrich]

I have a little problem with goal setting.  Most landowners don't really have any goals in mind when they get into any type of management.  Most of those goals are too vague.  Without a preliminary cruise, what data is going to be used to support any type of goal?

If the landowner says he wants to "improve his woodlot", its pretty easy to say we took out the big ones to allow the little ones to grow.  If he wants "wildlife habitat", just cut it harder so the deer will have plenty to eat.  I've seen these jobs done and the justification is always "that's what the landowner wanted".

If the forester is the professional, he should be able to tell the landowner what is best for his forest.  Its up to the landowner to be the good steward and follow the advice.

[WDH]

Many foresters have a bias toward timber production and maximizing timber value.  That is not a bad thing at all, since most of us who have forest land have to pay taxes, etc. and income from the property is important.  Some landowners do want to cut timber for income and want to manage for sustainable timber value.  However, some do not care about timber as much as they do aesthetics, wildlife, recreation, etc.  A forester needs to know what the landowner's objectives are so that the management recommendations can address all the objectives that the landowner has in the best possible way.  There are some trade-offs, and these need to be understood by both parties to come to the best plan for the property.

[SwampDonkey]

I would have to agree that it's 'fun' sometimes trying to get any set of goals or objectives out of a land owner. A lot (not all) are thinking of cutting wood for money now, and wildlife and long term planning isn't in the radar. Believe me, it comes out when your compiling a woodlot management plan. Matthew 6: 19-34

[Gary_C]

You should contact the MN DNR Division of Forestry. They can give you advice and may even be able to set up a management plan for free. They can also help set up a sale but there is a fee for that.

I don't know where the property is located, but I know there are DNR offices in Preston, Lake City, and Lewiston, MN.

Caledonia, MN too.