Dunham 441 log hog VS skid steer

Ventryjr · January 07, 2022, 04:04:14 PM

I'm looking at buying a Dunham 441 log hog "skidder" tractor. Does anyone have any experience with them? Owner told me it's the same as a ford tractor. Is that accurate? It has a blade on the front and 2 independent log tongs on the back. Roll cage. 2wd. It's for sale for $1k doesn't run and appears to be quite a project. Probably a new motor. Sitting outside without a head currently.

I have a newer kubota 75hp CTL. Am I better off passing on the "skidder" and buying a skidding winch for the skid steer? When it's dry I can get the skid steer thru the trails no problem. Muddy is a challenge. Gets slippery. Thanks for the input.

stavebuyer · January 07, 2022, 05:20:26 PM

The Log Hog is basically a tractor modified for skidding. Setting its age and condition aside; 2wd and no winch means it is not going to be much of tool even if it ran.

For skidding I would first prefer a skidder. If I could only afford one machine it would be a 4wd tractor with a FEL and winch.

thecfarm · January 07, 2022, 05:29:49 PM

Never heard of them before.
Google had some pictures. As mentioned 2wd and no winch. Which I am kinda surprised on both of that. 4wd sure is nice in the woods. So is a winch.

beenthere · January 07, 2022, 05:37:03 PM

Dunham Log Hog Tractor - YouTube

Ventryjr · January 07, 2022, 07:26:10 PM

Quote from: stavebuyer on January 07, 2022, 05:20:26 PM
The Log Hog is basically a tractor modified for skidding. Setting its age and condition aside; 2wd and no winch means it is not going to be much of tool even if it ran.

For skidding I would first prefer a skidder. If I could only afford one machine it would be a 4wd tractor with a FEL and winch.

I agree. Ideally I'd have a 50hp tractor fel, grapple, forks, farmi winch, and a cat skidder for the big stuff. But I can get non of that for ~$5k. I can however either buy a farmi style winch for my skid steer. Buy a wfe 2wd farm tractor and a winch or buy this log hog and put a new motor in it.

Corley5 · January 07, 2022, 07:30:22 PM

If it needs an engine how's the rest of the drive train?

Walnut Beast · January 07, 2022, 07:37:12 PM

Not even a comparison! A tracked skid would smoke it

stavebuyer · January 07, 2022, 07:39:26 PM

It might in Nebraska. They won't pull squat where there are hills and clay.

Walnut Beast · January 07, 2022, 07:42:33 PM

Quote from: Ventryjr on January 07, 2022, 04:04:14 PM
I'm looking at buying a Dunham 441 log hog "skidder" tractor. Does anyone have any experience with them? Owner told me it's the same as a ford tractor. Is that accurate? It has a blade on the front and 2 independent log tongs on the back. Roll cage. 2wd. It's for sale for $1k doesn't run and appears to be quite a project. Probably a new motor. Sitting outside without a head currently.

I have a newer kubota 75hp CTL. Am I better off passing on the "skidder" and buying a skidding winch for the skid steer? When it's dry I can get the skid steer thru the trails no problem. Muddy is a challenge. Gets slippery. Thanks for the input.

The key is getting the front of the log up off the ground and your golden. I've seen some 60 hp wheeled skidsteers move some pretty big logs

Ventryjr · January 07, 2022, 07:47:37 PM

I have some videos on my yt channel "rusty mill" where I move some decent sized hemlock logs with my skid steer. But like said above it's terrible in clay with a incline. I was thinking this tractor deal with a set of tire chains might fair a little better. Could look at adding a winch to it in the future. I figured it's got to be better then just a farmall m with a wide front end. And idk about the rest of the drive train. Could also be junk.

mike_belben · January 07, 2022, 10:29:09 PM

I would build a junkyard articulated truck skidder with 2 solid axles and a chelsea pto from an NP205 to power a braden freespool winch before i fooled with another 2wd tractor.

stavebuyer · January 08, 2022, 03:00:59 AM

A chained 2wd tractor will pull a lot of wood. FWD shines when you are loading or going uphill empty. Traction pulls logs. For a man on a budget that has a skid steer to load, a 60HP 2wd tractor can pull enough wood to buy what he needs next. If you are hooked correctly your front wheels aren't going to have enough weight on them to help with the pulling.

stavebuyer · January 08, 2022, 04:30:19 AM

It's been my experience that a winch is the heart of the operation unless you get into a dual arch grapple skidder class machine. Any smaller machine whether it be tractor/skid steer/dozer/small skidder is going to need a winch to get much done.

Winches require someone to pull cable, set the choker and unhook at the landing. I toyed with the idea of a winch for the front of a Cat 289D tracked skid steer. Nice machine and handy with a grapple for pushing brush, roughing in a path etc.

Then I got to thinking how much of a pain it was to get in and out of the thing and how the safety interlocks disabled the hydraulics if the door/seatbelt/restraining arms weren't in place and that the hydraulics were controlled via a button on the joystick. Then you would have to skid backwards. Not having the root grapple in front sort of negates much of the handy part of the skid steer in the woods. Working a winch by yourself means that you are on and off the machine every few minutes. The cost of the SS hydraulic winches was considerably higher than the 3pt mechanicals. I would put a good winch on a cheap tractor and then upgrade the tractor as the checkbook allows.

Walnut Beast · January 08, 2022, 04:31:45 AM

That little 441 doesn't weigh much. The problems it had on a dry surface would be a nightmare in muddy conditions. Any tractor in that weight range would have trouble. A friend in Alabama had a tire mulcher and went tracked because he got tired of getting stuck. Unless he gets something bigger weight and fwd I would stick with the kubota skid and move some wood

Walnut Beast · January 08, 2022, 04:39:17 AM

I agree the winch setups on the back of a decent tractor seems to work pretty good for several guys on here

stavebuyer · January 08, 2022, 04:50:34 AM

Quote from: Ventryjr on January 07, 2022, 07:47:37 PM
I have some videos on my yt channel "rusty mill" where I move some decent sized hemlock logs with my skid steer. But like said above it's terrible in clay with a incline.

nativewolf · January 08, 2022, 08:05:30 AM

Dragging is one thing but have you considered a forestry trailer? Of course with prices of everything I have no idea what one would cost but it takes a lot less to pull one out.

Less expensive still is a good log arch. You can make one or buy one and it would leave you with a bit of dry powder. A good arch and an ATV/UTV/Small tractor can move a log pretty well. In this area if the 2wd tractor can't pull it the 4wd may but also might just get your in more trouble.

Just ideas. I think the pros and cons have been well hashed.

mike_belben · January 08, 2022, 08:41:15 AM

The issue with 2wd tractor is not enough front ballast. If its got manual steering and you add the ballast you cant steer. Hydraulic steering, a thick axle beam and pivot, and robust steering parts make this a smaller issue, but its THE issue on a little old rowcrop tractor with pinky thick steering rods and manual gearbox. The wheel gets ripped out of your hand constantly, tires get stoved into full steer like 80* sideways beyond the geometry limits and get stuck there. Its dicey.

If the 441 has beefy front the cure is add a heavy front blade. Id cut down a scrapped snowplow, put a pair of grapple fingers and a gear box behind the blade. This will way increase the forward pulling capacity, roadbuilding and log piling capacity. Using the blade to clear debris allows the tires and stuff to survive longer by prepping the ground you run on.

mike_belben · January 08, 2022, 09:03:26 AM

Alright i just found a guys facebook named log hog tractors with dozens of pictures of them dismantled. It really is built right for the job. Full frame with belly pans, serious axle beam and rocker, protected hydraulics, real cab etc.

Buy it fast.. Its not anything like a normal tractor and is worth the effort to out of frame the motor and fix whatever the driveline might need. Even if youre into it for 5k nothing else is gonna pull wood like that in the same price range.

You havent posted any pics of the back of the one youre looking at so we dont know whats missing, but most of these im seeing have a winch, one or two grapples, a blade and serious cab.

It wont go where a skidder will but it can make you a monthly living without a monthly payment. Do it.

mudfarmer · January 08, 2022, 09:23:33 AM

If you don't want it, send me a PM? Might know someone that does for $1k buy in depending on what is there and I would make him give FF their cut

mike_belben · January 08, 2022, 09:57:05 AM

Yeah dont let that go to scrap please.

I just reread your first post, sorry for forgetting your description of the setup. Blade is great. Is the winch under the seat gone? Are the tongs literally tongs or are they hydraulic grapples? Ive seen singles and duals on hyd arches.

What loghog did right is build an exo frame around the tractor. Deletes the 3pt hitch and allows the attachment pivots and winch base to be built right at the axle. Tremendous increase in lift and skid capacity compared to when we keep a conventional 3pt ag hitch and start a minimum of 30" further back. Even 10" makes a night and day difference.

Cutting brakes and a diff lock will make for a very nimble machine that can zig and zag like no other. I can circle my tractor within the footprint of a large hot tub.

Ventryjr · January 08, 2022, 12:38:02 PM

I'm going to look at it in person tomorrow and I'll post some pics then. And it appears to have log tongs mounted on hydraulic lifting arms. Not a grapple. I'm going to look into the power steering and possibly if it has a winch. I've been dealing with the owners son who doesn't know much about the unit. I guess the father (owner) is ill. I also know where I can get my hands on a hydraulic winch for a reasonable price. I'll keep you guys in the loop. Thanks for the advice. Much like this topic I've been flip flopping on what to do haha.

Walnut Beast · January 08, 2022, 03:22:36 PM

Quote from: nativewolf on January 08, 2022, 08:05:30 AM
Dragging is one thing but have you considered a forestry trailer? Of course with prices of everything I have no idea what one would cost but it takes a lot less to pull one out.

Less expensive still is a good log arch. You can make one or buy one and it would leave you with a bit of dry powder. A good arch and an ATV/UTV/Small tractor can move a log pretty well. In this area if the 2wd tractor can't pull it the 4wd may but also might just get your in more trouble.

Just ideas. I think the pros and cons have been well hashed.

Definitely! That's why I made my log trailer! I don't plan on dragging the logs a half mile out of the woods

mike_belben · January 08, 2022, 03:40:12 PM

I wouldnt ask too many question and get the seller to start putting higher value on it after research. Just show up with sockets and a breaker bar and try to roll the motor and trans. Try it in each gear and see that it doesnt lock up. Bout the best you can do.

A woods trailer is king if you can make it happen. No one is giving grapple loaders away however. Not easy to come by.

thecfarm · January 08, 2022, 05:18:24 PM

Trailer is fine on somewhat flat grade.
Even a ½ of wood on a trailer coming down a steep hill with a 2 wd tractor will get your heart going by the time you get to the bottom.

I have worked a tractor in the woods since '93. BUT on my land. I am very fussy with my roads and what I leave in the woods. Rocks are hauled into wet hole and rough ground. Trails are worked on to make them easier on the tractor., Yes, I might twitch out more than I should at times, but stumps are cut low and nothing I run over for small trees. Yes, it takes time, but I have not done any major damage from a branch. Yes, banged up fenders a few times, but nothing that needs to be replaced. A tractor is a tractor. No reason to run over trees 2-3 inches across or over a bunch of brush. And just so you all know, I am not easy on equipment. People see my tractor and wonder what I do with it. :