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Maybe going with electric feed, But how do ya

Started by robnrob2, October 15, 2009, 08:57:31 AM

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robnrob2

 Because of the constrants of space on and around the sawhead, I am so limited to the possibilities of putting a hydrolic pump driven off my motor, that the possibilities of going electrci { DC } keep coming back to me,, Heres where I'm running with this,, There are lots of Mobility scooters out there that are cheap/inexpensive, and I do belive that they have the torque at slow speed to power the saw thru the cut, and to return it quickly,,, but what I'm finding out is that they bout all seem to be 24voltDC,,, I'm concerned that if I use 12volt, that I would loose the power and speed necessary, as well as the circutboard/electronins etc, may not work/respond correctly. I dont have a problem running 2 batteries { series } to do this, but keeping them charged from a 12volt system ?  Could I keep my 12volt starter battery still connected to the motors charging circut, hook up a 12 to 24volt converter to charge the other batteries?? Ive been thru the search engine here on this forum, but still no good answers,, Fla._Deadheader if I've got that right, seems to have been where I wanna go, maybe he knows the answer.

pineywoods

Scooter motors will run on 12 volts, take a look at wheel chair motors--24 volt also but have built in gear box and are usually hefty enough to get the job done on 12 volts. If one ain't enuff, just use 2 of them.. I use one on my mill to run a home-made autoclutch. The control module may or may not work on 12 volts, just have to try it and see. Some of the scooter motors have the control module built into the motor.  Try here for speed controllers that will work on 12 volts..  www.electronickits.com
Another good source of hefty 12 volt motors is lawn mower starter motors..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

ladylake

 You could mount a 6hp gas motor with a hydraulic pump on the saw bed like a couple of manufactors do.to run the hydraulics, as many as you want. My B20 TK is like that, no problems at all and that sure saves a lot of problems.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

robnrob2

Well thats a good link http://www.electronickits.com for a possible source or replacement speed controlers,, Now a starter motor off a garden tractor etc, is not really rated for continus duty,, where a feed application foward/reverse I would pretty much consider continus,,
I have a hydrolic log loader that is powered by a 12volt power pack,, that too is intermentant duty,, I have electric head up/gravity down, that works good too just no power feed,, Right now I have a #40 chain that runs the length of the mill and a hand crank feed, that works good, but I wanna put power to it , and eventually maybe even setup for a board dragback, when I use a helper.

fishpharmer

Hey Rob, member hbarker (i think) recently was working on a similar setup.

Maybe he will speak up.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Fla._Deadheader

 Trolling Motor and control  ::) ;D  12V and 24V  8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

robnrob2

I jsut wanna be sure that I have enough low-end torque, or push,, you know, when you got your blade buried in 18-24" of wood, ya gotta sorta crawl, and it takes power,, does the troling motor have that srta push,, and I know that I will be conecting it with prolly small chain sprokett on motor goin to larger on the final drive,,

bandmiller2

Rob,something else for thought, those treadmills the yuppies run on have a dc motor and speed control not sure of the voltage.As Steve said a seperate engine and pump is not a bad idea you could have  hydraulic  turner, clamps and log loader as well as feed.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

kelLOGg

I use a 24 VDC speed controller to run a wheelchair motor for head feed with 2 12 VDC batteries in series and operate my swinging boom loader via 12 VDC across one of the batteries (see gallery). To charge the 2 batts I wire them in parallel and use a 12 VDC charger. It take a lot of cable switching  >:( but I'm not making a living with it so I don't mind. ::). I would have preferred to keep it all one voltage but parts availability dictated otherwise.

Good luck with your decision.

Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Fla._Deadheader


If you can manually push the sawhead through a 24" wide cut, then a trolling motor should have no problem.  They shove 20' boats through dense weeds and mud, sometimes  ::) ::)

  Look in Thrift stores and Craigslist. A foot control has variable speed usually. Hand control has voltage points of contact, usually.  You can always buy a PWM off ebay for $50.00, in 12-36V and 65 amps. That should be more than enough. We used a jackshaft for the belt-chain drive.

  Look in my album under "Homey". Lots of photos.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ladylake

 If his mill has a fixed chain with a hand crank on the head then a electric motor would be the way to go. My B20 has movable chains that a hydraulic motor drives which pulls the head back and forth.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Fla._Deadheader


Our mill has the cables running through Vacuum Cleaner tubing. It prevents rough treatment of the cables, and it just drags a little on the ground. The mill CAN cut 16' logs, but, usually it is 8's 10's and 12's.

  Just over ½ the lengths is the travel of the head. NO need to go all the way back to the end of the track.

We have the operator station so it can slide toward the center of the bed, where the clamp and loader is. Why complicate things ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

robnrob2

O.K. here is a thought, that might work,, My machine is powered by a 38 horse kohler, the exhaust gathers form both sides right over the PTO shaft, if I cut the exhaust and  put on dual exhaust, I could prolly fit a hydrolic just above thye PTO,, if I can find a power stearing pump that opperates in the CCW direction, ya reckon it would have enough volume to run a Hydrolic motor which would connect to the chain,, and then a typical control valve designed for variable control both directions, used also ?

coastlogger

Now youre talking Rob.A power steering pump does real well in my experience. Mine is mounted up high directly above pulley so that it is always highest part of  hyd system.Made a mount out of a 28 " pc of square tube, bottom fastens to holes around pulley,top has pump mounted there. In my case I could turn pump around 180 deg to get the rotation I wanted. I use a standard hyd flow reg valve as my speed control. I incorporated a clutch into my drive to allow manual feed which was easy and is a great feature I think. Sometimes I just feel like pushing,esp back.I also can adjust clutch to slip rather than break something. This could also be done with pressure reg I suppose.Have been delighted with my feed. (Pics in gallery)
clgr

backwoods sawyer

If you really want to go with a hydraulic drive, you may want to consider mounting a 12v hydraulic pump on the head of the mill. This would keep it simple.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

robnrob2

Coastlogger
Thats what I'm talkin about, running the pump in the right direction. My Son brought me 2 powerstearin pumps, one big wit a resavore and then the other is pretty small and no res, I like the small one, but it too turns CW, so with my big ole 38hp kohler it eats up all the room, this mill wasnt designed for a big engine and was designed to be manual, so that the challange is tryin to find the room for this, and making a pump go the right direction,,
Coastlogger that honda doesnt look all the big, what HP is it ?

Chico

Mount it backwards so the pulley is inboard instead of outboard that will reverse dir
Chico
My Daughter My sailor MY HERO God Bless all the men and Women fighting for us today If you see one stop and thank them

backwoods sawyer

 



Some advantages to the 12-volt hydraulic pump are:
They do not have to be mounted onto the motor.
They can be mounted anywhere on the head.
Rotation is not an issue.
This is not a good picture of the one that runs my debarker, however, you can get see that it hangs off the head out of the way. It has 4 bolts that go to a plate that sandwich it to the frame, so no holes were drilled in the frame.
Disadvantage is they are not real cheap ($300-$400 range)
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

bandmiller2

Rob, is your mill used portable or stationary.If stationary you can run the pump with a 110v motor on the base,no need to have it on the carriage.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

coastlogger

Rob I guess by putting my pump up high away from restrictions I am able to orient it either way to get correct rotation.Even with mill at bottom cut ,pump is still above top crossmember of mill head frame.This works for my single cyl 13 hp, maybe  you have somethingon engine in the way?If you can sight on pulley from directly above, my design should work.You were asking abt power, the pump must use up some but it is not noticeable in a cut. Let me know if you want a pic of some part or other. Oh yeah I had to add a sheave to pulley for pump to run off. I welded one to mill drive pulley. Not a lot of clearance to frame but enough.My mill runs with a belt tightening clutch arrgmt(engine on a hinge)so pulley turns all the time.
clgr
clgr

fishpharmer

Has anyone tried  a trolling motor for a drive mechanism?
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

robnrob2

My Mill is portable, and I do take it out on a job once in a while, so that why I need to be free from 110 power source. My Log loader works off a hyd powerpack, and I belive most power packs are intermittent, such as 1 min on, and 6 min off,, stuff like that,, My head has electric up and  gravity down and that works great, but I do know that with foward and reverse, you gotta be able to run constant.
  O.K I just took the gear off this lil power stearing pump, and it has a 5/8" shaft, so thatrs a real good thing, so now I can use a pully on that and start the mounting procedures to get this hung facing the motor, and it just does clear the sawhead frame,,, all that said I do appreacaet all the input, and will keep ya's posted on the progress, and still if i do see a electric mobility scooter for a great price I'm a gonna grab it because of the gearmotors they use.

robnrob2

O.K I got most the hydrolics in, the control valve, the hydrolic motor, filter mount, and the pump and pulleys ,etc, now its find the time to do the mounting fabrication,,, the exhaust has been modified with dual mushroom mufflers,, this 38hp kohler sounds good now.










robnrob2

O.K. Its been slow because of other duties here, but its comming along.
The mill had a hand crank feed and I wanted to keep it just incase there was a hydrolic brake down, but as it is right now, it had to go. but I can engage and disengage the hydrolic motor if the engine is not running, or if a few boards are to be edged, I can push it fast thru them, altho this hyd motor can do about 700rpm, if need be,,  spool valve added also, 



this pic is from the other side with the hyd engaged,and wraped around the chain.



here is a picture of the pump, and drive pully.




I have the filter mount,, not installed yet, that should be easy,, I've got  a small tank to use, and now I've gotta find the correct size fittings to weld it, then I should be ready for the plumbing.


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