Anyone want to talk about Belsaw Mills

[jimparamedic]

Lead out, teeth not sharped straight or swaged heavy to one side, feed to fast, bearing going bad, holders for teeth loose, also a combination of these. And another thing I've seen is trying to run a left hand blade on a right hand mill or vice versa. In all my trial and tribulations it is usually a combination of things that by then selves would not cause a problem.    

[moodnacreek]

Don't see how anybody could saw with 14hp even with only 24 tooth and 1" feed. Years ago I sawed with 32 teeth and 25 hp, just barely.

[jimparamedic]

I did not think it would saw either but when I got the mill I wanted to get every thing adjusted and working while looking for a 4v Wisconsin. It was running good so I throwed a log on and off I went.

[BUGGUTZ]

I'm running a small block Chevy and sometimes I don't feel like that's even enough. I have a 6bt Cummins sitting here, if I could only afford a PTO clutch for it!

[moodnacreek]

I'm running a small block Chevy and sometimes I don't feel like that's even enough. I have a 6bt Cummins sitting here, if I could only afford a PTO clutch for it!
If you have the sae flywheel I may have the clutch.

[moodnacreek]

I did not think it would saw either but when I got the mill I wanted to get every thing adjusted and working while looking for a 4v Wisconsin. It was running good so I throwed a log on and off I went.
Just took a 4cyl. Wisconsin off my slabwood saw.

[bandmiller2]

Its pretty much how fast your sawing, a small engine will worry its way through. Years ago I was doing some sawmill bumming, the sawyer was greased lightning but only had a international gas four cylinder tractor engine. He was always waiting for the engine to catch up. A proper diesel, I bet his output would have jumped. Frank C.

[Trapper John]

Today I inspected and wire brushed an old 43" saw I had lying around.  I am running a 48" saw now but I don't know if that is a good idea so I want to try this smaller saw.  It is missing 13 shanks and the teeth really varied in length and were poorly filed.  It appears the old girl had a hard life.  I put a straight edge on it and it appeared pretty flat in both planes so I guess its worth a try after I replace the missing shanks and install new teeth.  The shanks are stamped 3-8 so I assume its a 3 tooth and 8 gauge.  When a saw is referred to as a 7/8 saw, does that mean the saw is 7 gauge at the center and 8 gauge at the rim?  You guys might find it interesting to know that Belsaw apparently sold some of their sawmills with a 48" saw.  The 48" saw that came with this mill has a 1 3/8" ID and B-9 shanks just like their standard 40" saws.  As far as the carriage creeping backwards in a cut, I solved that problem (I think) but pushing the set lever all the way back against that rod that helps support the knees.  No way it can move backwards.  I have a problem with the dog board.  I can't make anything less than about 2".  The dogs are in the way.  Is this normal for Belsaws? 

[Don P]

Mine came with a 46" blade standard, a Timberking M-14... a Belsaw. If the pawl is engaged and the pull handle is back it is pretty much locked. The plate that is under the carriage below the headblocks should also be snug but if the cant is pushing you aren't tuned in yet, usually that means the lead is off or the track has a problem. I have to keep an eye on the inside loading end of mine, it gets pounded down and puts it in a twist.

I have a 1x2 leaning up on the loading opening post that I throw behind the cant on my last turn to space the cant out 1" which allows a 1" dog board. I also use it on top of boards when edging to avoid putting dogging marks into my boards. apm built a tube steel frame 1" thick that bolted across his blocks that did the same 1" spacing out. I'm running a tired old TO35 with 15 teeth on the blade. I do have apm's 6 cyl deutz I need to get the round tuits and hook up.

[moodnacreek]

2 inch is the last board thickness unless you modify like I did. Unless made flat saws are 1 or2 gages thicker in the middle and flat on the board side. That is the reason for l/h and r/h saws. Belsaw once made a sawmill [larger mandrel] that took up to a 52" saw. Sawmills don't really come with a saw. You put on what you want or can find within reason.

[moodnacreek]

2 inch is the last board thickness unless you modify like I did. Unless made flat saws are 1 or2 gages thicker in the middle and flat on the board side. That is the reason for l/h and r/h saws. Belsaw once made a sawmill [larger mandrel] that took up to a 52" saw. Sawmills don't really come with a saw. You put on what you want or can find within reason. Messed that up, ment flat on log side.

[Babylon519]

I run the saw with my 38 hp diesel IH B-275 tractor direct from the PTO. Mine has a 42" blade with 32 inserted teeth (2 are missing). TrapperJohn, I've been looking around for a 60 hp power plant, hoping that will keep the RPMs up when I'm in the wood as that is, for sure, one of the reasons the blade warms up. It seems like I'm usually cutting sawlogs that have been down for awhile, and they can be tough. A month ago, I cut some fresh-felled cherry, and the saw did a beautiful job of those logs. I think I want to cut more fresh, and less dead! :D BTW, that last board will be a minimum 2" thick too, thanks to the dogs being in the way.
JimParamedic, is your planer still working? Mine is a 24" monster that runs with flat belts back to a PTO pulley. For a 100-year-old machine, I'm amazed at the trueness of the spindle and the way it whirrs - it's still a precision machine. Wish I could find new 24" blades for it; the existing blades have been sharpened to the point I'm not comfortable taking them down any further. The feed roller is pretty worn too.   - Jason



 

 

[Trapper John]

Jason,  nice looking planer.  My blade heat is caused by lost rpm when my 8" flat belt starts slipping at the engine.  I can saw but only with liberal application of belt dressing (corn syrup or honey).  I am looking into going to a 10" flat belt with idler if its not too expensive getting one up here.  By the way, an old time sawyer (82 years) in Tok Ak. said Belsaw sold heavier mandrels for the m-14 sawmill.  He said they were having too many complaints with the 1.75" mandrel and offered a heavier one.  Has anyone ever run across one of these heavier mandrels and what size were they?
The 60 hp should work OK.  Two years ago I was running a 40 hp JD crawler on my mill with the 48" blade and it would cut, but slow. 

[moodnacreek]

Fresh cut logs? Your darn right. There has always been so much hot air about keeping saw logs laying around. The only reason to do it is that you just can't get the time to saw them. Even a cut log a few weeks old is harder on the end than it was. In spruce the cut off knots get very hard soon. [try cutting back spruce or hemlock knots with a chainsaw and see]  And fresh cut logs make better lumber any way you look at it.

[jimparamedic]

Babylon519  yes it is still going strong its a 20 inch. Also have a 24 inch that I want to get set up soon. A machine shop can make new blades

[Babylon519]

only with liberal application of belt dressing (corn syrup or honey)

Okay, I checked the date, and it's past April 1st!! Wouldn't sawdust and corn syrup get messy - like tar & feathers? :D   

In spruce the cut off knots get very hard soon

Bummer! I have 30 spruce logs to cut. They've been in the pile for 10 months.

A machine shop can make new blades

My machinist thought he could make new planer knives from an old grader blade, or the ice blade from a Zamboni. But he's reluctant due to liability - something to do with retro pieces swinging on a century-old machine at 12,000 rpm!

[Trapper John]

Yeah I am getting some buildup of gunk on my belt but I have no choice right now, without it I cannot saw at all because of the slippage at the engine pulley.  I have a plan to install an idler and go to a 10" belt.  You might want to put uhmw or some other plastic strips on your carriage so the log will advance easier.  With a heavy log when I pull the set lever all the way, it will spring back a little bit meaning there is tension in the set mechanism and knees.  As the carriage rolls down the track the vibration releases the tension and the log is pushed out into the saw and I get a thicker board at the end than at the beginning of the cut.  At least I think that is what is happening.  I think my arbor pulley (truck tire and rim) is giving me grief also.  It is not running true and I think that is flexing my arbor or setting up a bad vibration.  I had to push so hard on the Johnson stick two days ago that the 5/8" rod that holds my cable pulley bent and the cable came off.  I have been trying for two years to get this mill tuned and running good.  But I did locate a arbor pulley in Alaska but the problem is it is only 7" wide.  I am going to buy it anyway and have a machine shop (they build tanks) preform 2" flat steal and weld it on both sides of the pulley to give me a 11" wide pulley.  It will only be crowned in the middle but hopefully it will work and I can get rid of the truck tire.  And I just ordered a Honda gx390 because I am building a bandsaw.  Seems like a lot of bandmillers start off with Belsaws also. 

[jimparamedic]

There are also companies that make chipper knives and I talked with them at the Paul Bunin show and they said they can make them for me.
 For flat belt dressing I  make my own out of 1part bees wax 1 part linseed oil and 2 parts tar heat to mix up works good for me

[jimparamedic]

Trying to up load videos hope i can get this figured out

[Don P]

I think everyone that has a Belsaw has bent the feed cable pulley shafts. It means something was in a bind and it was forced. Guilty here :D. I rebuilt mine with some heavy C channel across the ends of the track and mounted the pulley in that. But if you're having feed trouble the problem is in the mill setup somewhere, you're sawing in a bind.

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Trying to up load videos hope i can get this figured out

You don't/can't upload videos directly to the Forestry Forum. Instead, you upload them to YouTube and then put a link to the YouTube video in your comment on the Forestry Forum.
Hope that helps.
Herb

[jimparamedic]

Thanks for the info

[jimparamedic]

https://youtu.be/zoH_jWmNXPc
I think I've got this figured out.

[Babylon519]

Jimparamedic, your mill feeds to opposite way to mine. I wouldn't be able to go direct from my PTO like I do if mine was setup like that. - Jason

[jimparamedic]

yes that's why I haven't hooked a tractor to it. I am looking for a bigger power unit but this works so far. Would like to find a v4 Wisconsin 20 to 25 hp