Log Prices?

[nativewolf]

More pricing updates for yellow poplar (liriodendron tulipifera):  Scale Intl;   Prime logs up to $700 up from $600 (4s clear, min 18" diameter), to $350 for 1 side clear logs (up from $250)  The key movement was in the bottom quality logs where they moved up very nicely.  

Tie logs in demand too, lots of offers at $0.45/bdft international to $0.40 international.  Which strikes me as pretty good for a black gum at 12".  

[Hogdaddy]

I don't think this is the exact thread that I was looking for, but it will do.

Red oak took I big hit this week here, they're saying they can't sell and 2&3a for 3 months now. They're not wanting to buy red oak now, and for good reason. Everything else is down some, but holding for now. 

I guess all hardwood loggers seeing the same thing?

[ehp]

its all up here compared to a year ago , Most of the lower grade stuff has come up the most , stuff like popular, red pine which is low grade for here is up , Top grades of good logs is up as well but not near the % that the low grade gained . Its been months sense I cut any red oak so do not know on it but have a few reds to cut this week 

[nativewolf]

Everything still up compared to a year ago and really up compared to 3 years ago.  Except RO which was stronger a year ago but we couldn't move it 3-4 years ago.  We'd cut RO for bridge timbers or tie logs which is just insane so we tried, if possible to leave it.  2 Years ago we did ok on RO, sold veneers at a good price.  

Alternative use on the RO are bridge timbers.  That price might be dropping fast too though?  Not sure.  How are RO tie logs holding up down there?  

[stavebuyer]

Oak tie logs are down to .55 from .65
Sawn ties are still at $42 but the RR's and treating plants subscribe to the HMR too.
Flooring drives the market; and when housing drops there isn't much need or alternative for low grade oak.

There are a large number of headlines regarding housing and banking issues in China unrelated to Covid. When domestic Red Oak crashed in 2005, China was the answer.

War in Europe, inflation in the US, and Ponzi mortgage finance unravelling in China the only buyers may be speculators for cheap.

[nativewolf]

So for low grade RO the price is still a lot better than 3 years ago but not great nonetheless.

Mortgage that I paid in 1996 was 8% I think, first home after returning from overseas.  In 2018 the rates in July/August were like 4.5%.  Now 5.3%.  They only seem expensive to people because they got so crazy low 2 years ago.  I can't believe people would make a decision on something like a mortgage based on histories lowest interest rates- but then people often surprise me. 

I'm hopeful that inflation bottoms out quickly just due to demand destruction, commodities are down all over.   

[ehp]

problem is the cost of logging has gone up far more in % than the price of logs has and so has everything else in the cost of living AND everything is going to come to a halt and it will. Mortgage rates are going way up cause they have to to lower inflation . They told us maybe 5% here 3 months ago, now there talking 12% and our biggest bank is saying  hold our beer cause its going higher than that . They now say it will be higher than the 88 to 92 time period which was 18% to 21% . It's quite simple , the gov't cannot send money at the rate they are without hurting the country and it is bad . People were spending money that they donot have at a crazy rate as well . 

[ehp]

What's going on it China is also going to hurt over here as well as everything from that country is going to cost alot more if we can even get what product at the store we want .  In that time period of 88 to 92 it was almost impossible to sell any logs here , hard maple veneer was being cut into firewood as that was the only thing selling , firewood 

[stavebuyer]

2 of the largest flooring manufacturers in the state have paused buying oak flooring lumber. The ride down is always faster than the slow climb up.

[trapper]

on lumbermen online  I see two flooring manufactures up for auction.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Dont know about log prices here but Im about to find out.
 I do get a stumpage price report published twice a year by the NYDEC.
Son Mark and I are in the process of harvesting the vestiges of my ash which has finally been hit by the EAB.
Small timber so the price wont be great, but better than for firewood.
Will probably log it out and sell on the landing.
I have a local log buyer that I trust

[stavebuyer]

Ash(whats left of it) is still selling very well.

[bitternut]

We are are in the middle of an ash harvest at the present time in our woods along with a scheduled basal reduction. Almost 50% of the harvest trees are ash. Pretty sure  that none of our ash have borers. I have been searching and have found none. Our sale was bid over a year ago and am not sure if the price has moved up or down. The loggers and the haulers that I have talked to say that uninfected ash is still in demand, not sure about infected trees. I don't think there is any demand for standing totally dead ash.

Here are a few pictures of some of the harvest.



 

 

No sign of ash borers

 


 

 

Couple of loads

 

 

 

[kantuckid]

FWIW, The US government "official" just cut the tariffs on Canadian SPF in half. I suppose that will have an effect on log prices here soon. 

[stavebuyer]

Red Oak 2&3 has been selling at 100mbf under the already weak HMR price IF You were well connected and could get a PO. Now you if saw it you will be putting it on sticks. Thats going to pass through to logs. Kinda like 2010.

The species that have been moving will be affected because Red Oak is so abundant and when the big boys switch to minor species they can sell it won't take long to overwhelm the system.

[nativewolf]

Yes RO being in the toilet is no good.   What's your market on that nice hickory from the other pics (the short truck)?  I don't know how to sell it as well as I should.  We have some lovely hickory that I've left growing, waiting til I feel I have a better understanding.  Exporters have been the best buyers but never over $1/bdft on the very best export logs.  

Some good news, in our area YP prime logs have held at 700.  Our YP peeler market is still pretty darn strong so if it doesn't make a prime log off it goes.  

Our QS buyer never changed his price last year and hasn't changed it this year either.  

We have some orders for real YP veneer but we've moved into a stand that is old and very little sapwood so it is not making the grade.  Domestic YP fell back a bit, from 1.5-1.75.  Still a nice price.

[Hogdaddy]

Anyone hear any news on walnut? 

[stavebuyer]

The Hickory container logs go for $.90-$1.00. In winter domestic slicers will do a little better. Most goes into ties $.55-$.60.

[nativewolf]

Anyone hear any news on walnut?

My buyer says it will be about the same for veneer but that sawlogs pulled back $0.50.  Two ways to look at that...it is much lower than last fall, it is much higher than almost anytime in the past.   :-\

[nativewolf]

The Hickory container logs go for $.90-$1.00. In winter domestic slicers will do a little better. Most goes into ties $.55-$.60.

Gotcha.  Ok, well I guess that's about what it is.  I don't know if I've ever sold a domestic slicer. 

[mudfarmer]

Seeing many prices the same or very close to what I was getting this winter. Lower grade hard maple dropped a bit, buyers asking for tulip poplar which I have never seen except while traveling  :D

It has been HOT and dry (for here, not bad for you sun dwellers). Went down south for a week and it was no different than here temp wise. Most of the state in some form of elevated for risk, may have changed due to severe rain storms for a few days. Some nice hard maple down from the storms, good to see prime prices not in the gutter 👍 lower grades to the woodmizer

If you are cutting softwood here right now you got the world by the short and curlys compared to the past, unprecedented. Gman seeing it quite a ways away with his back to back record spf prices at the yard

[nativewolf]

Got our first ro veneer request of the fall season.  $1.75-1.250 .  Sawlogs at $0.75 so that is an ok bump but nothing too special.  

Orders I can't fill til we move- ro veneer, yp veneer, wo qs, wo veneer 

[Woodfarmer]

What's going on it China is also going to hurt over here as well as everything from that country is going to cost alot more if we can even get what product at the store we want .  In that time period of 88 to 92 it was almost impossible to sell any logs here , hard maple veneer was being cut into firewood as that was the only thing selling , firewood

I remember Tembec in Huntsville not taking any maple unless the heart was smaller than a loonie.

[stavebuyer]

My Qtr saw White Oak log market just took a $.40bd/ft hit. Overdue but still hurts.

[OH logger]

Quarter saw white oak dropped here too this week and red oak too. Twice this week on red oak actually. White oak and walnut still good price but not like it was. Like stave said over due but still bites. That's the first time I remember QS white oak dropping in a LONG time. I Don't have a lot bought thank God. PAllet is ok for now. Sell red oak butt logs and pallet the rest of the tree. It's a shame. New this day was comin just wish I had ALL  of my jobs cut. 😆