Mill use

[biziedizie]

I was reading that latest mag about wood and I was amazed about how many mills aren't used everyday.
  22% of mill owners use their saws once a week or more. 39% use their saws once or twice a month. 28% use their saws about 3 times a year and 11% only run their saws once a year.
  I wish I could afford a mill and only use it once a year!
  Also they say that 74% of sawmill owners don't use a kiln. How many of us here own a kiln or use a kiln service?

   Steve

[Minnesota_boy]

I'd probably use my mill every day, but I get so tired after sawing for 5 days that I need the weekend to rest up. :

[redpowerd]

were tripping over amish mills up here, so i saw for myself and whoever has a log in my yard. some like to watch, most like to help. most of the time i saw for logs, keeps me at the mill and out of the woods, but thats why i have it. if someone wants it done quick, i do it and i usually get something extra for my time, but its mostly for hobby.

[Tom]

Although I've thought about a kiln and have threatened to build one several times, I don't have one.  As it turns out, I don't need one but could offer the service to maybe 10% of my customers

I think the that reason mills don't get used is because people buy them after listening to the sales talks and it sounds like easy money.  Most quit after 6 months or so and the mill is parked in a garage.  Why they aren't sold, I haven't figured out.

Many of the smaller mills are owned by back yard cabinet makers who only cut enough for their own inventory.

When I am sawing, it seems that there aren't enough days in the week. :D

[biziedizie]

Yeah I get where you're coming from! In the construction business I deal with customers and I don't work that hard but the sawmill is hard work and I really enjoy it! It is nice to take a day off when I can but that doesn't happen every month.

  Steve

[RMay]

I was looking at building a kiln but we have a big kiln owner that is drying for people at 15 cents a BF . When my customers need a kiln I have them call him . I do portable custon sawing and at times I could saw every day and at times it is slow . 8)

[biziedizie]

I've always been amazed at the amount of mills that just sit and do nothing. When I was looking for a used mill there was nothing around but yet I saw alot of mills under tarps that looked like they have never been used more the once or twice. More then once I have asked people if they want to sell their mills and they don't or they want what they paid for it. Like what's that all about?

  Steve

[Jeff]

I have a frien in the U.P. with an LT40 Hydraulic. Never been outside. I think its a 92, but I could be wrong, maybe 94. I looked at the hour meter and it has only a little over 200 hrs on it. Looks BRAND NEW!  He sawed his house out on it. He had built a special place in his barn for it before he even got it. The side door opens, he puts up some ramps and rolls the logs in. Other then sawing a little for a friend here and there it never gets used. I sure would like to buy it. I'd give him what he paid for it.

He says he's going to keep it in case his son wants to saw out a house someday.

[Bibbyman]

When we bought our first mill back in 94,  a guy I worked with in the office thought I was nuts. "How could you possibly use a mill enough to put $12,000 into it?"  About the same time he bought a big round hay baler for about the same investment.  I asked him how he could possibly afford to buy a bailer for the amount of use he would have for it.

His hay season came and went and he put up a total of 100 bales for himself and father-in-law that season.  He could have paid to have it done for $700 and set on the porch and sipped ice tea.  

I'd come in about every Monday morning and tell him we made $300 to $400 custom sawing over the weekend and ask; "And how much did you use your baler?".  Didn't take long before it became a sore point.  

I know one family just south of us that has an early Wood-Mizer mill.  They have a couple of large farms.  They refuse to saw for anyone.  They will collect their logs over time and will drag out their mill a couple of times a year and saw them up.  They use the lumber for typical farm construction,  I hear.  It is apparently enough justification for them to own one even though they only use it a hand full of days a year.  

[RMay]

Steve thay can always say there sawmillers if thay have a mill ha ha  :D

[Jeff]

I say the only justification you need to own one is that you want one and can make the payments.  

[Jeff]

I want one. :-/

[biziedizie]

Makes me want to go out and buy a new pair of gloves.....won't wear a pair nor have I ever owned a pair but it sure would be nice to say that I own a pair! I wish that I had money to throw around.

   Steve

[Tom]

OH!  you're supposed to pay for'em?

[RMay]

Jeff B when I got my mill my wife said we could make the payments but the mill has paid its on payments  8) go for it

[BW_Williams]

Steve, I intend on running my mill around 100 hours per year.  My theory is this will equal 500 hours of logging and transporting, sticker and stacking, trying to sell lumber, etc.  I don't think that's too bad for a hobby.  (Still work a regular job, volunteer Fire Chief, coach Little League, finish the remodeling the house, etc) I'm currently constucting a 500 bdft solar kiln from Dr. Gene's plans.  Not so much for custom drying, but because the bosslady wants the red oak I sawed for wainscoating in the mud room, and she don't want to wait a year!  Oh well, yes dear, I guess I can build a kiln and have it ready sooner.  (Got to keep her happy)  I also found a couple mills that never seemed to be used much, but no one would part with them.  BWW

[Jason_WI]

  He who dies with the most toys wins.

This was the sign in a hobby shop I used to go to when I was into flying RC model airplanes.

I have a gas powered radio control truck that I sunk $1200 into... It goes 60 MPH though

I am going to send a check for $4800 for an edger next week that is only going to be used on the weekends.....

Each his own I guess

Jason

[leweee]

as one old timer told me.windmill towers you see lots of them few of them are for sale. :(i'am sure sawmills are the same way.it took so long to get it.I hate to let it go. : must be like a security blanket or sumthin. ;D ;D ;D

[EZ]

Working at the shop takes away alot of my sawing. The winter months I'll saw for about an hour, if the job is fairly close. It times I wish I had 2 mills to get caught up on the wk end, I would run one & my son-in-law could run the other. Lately I have been getting people that want me to buy their logs, dont no how to do the log buying thing yet. Building these small building & boxes now & its taking away my sawing in the evening. Sometimes I think I'm getting to many hands in the kettle, but love it.
Need a kiln real bad, half the customers want lumber dryed, maybe some day.
EZ

[Fla._Deadheader]

What's the story on the boxes. Didja make a deal at work??

[AJ]

I won't get to use my mill as much as I'd like, spending too many hours at my real job.  I do intend on building a small kiln, probably 500' capacity, so I can dry some of the lumber to either use myself or try selling.  

The theory when I bought it was to sell enough lumber and/or sawmilling to make the payment.  At least that's what the wife agreed to...

[biziedizie]

I get where you're coming from AJ and making the payments are the big thing.I to have a real job......Well I'm self-employed so I guess that counts! lol!

   Steve

[Paul_H]

I would really like to get a kiln too.There are none in town here,the nearest is over an hour away.The one I've used is two hours away and is a Woodmizer DH kiln.It holds 4000 bf and has done a good job on the Fir that we have put into it.

For me to take one load over the hill to get kiln dried really involves a two day trip.But there is nothing closer for the $ so far.

[isawlogs]

I have  a LT40HD that I bought new in 93, it now has well over 4000 HRS. I also bought a portable edger in 94 from enercraft,Would like to saw more often but the winter months here are just to darne cold,As for the kiln, my neibour has a nile that I have acsess to and him being one of my customers I don't think I will soon be getting one.  ;D  Have had a lot of fun with it over the years met alot of great people and plan on meeting alot more, I don't think that there is a week that goes by without someone asking to buy it...the answer is always the same ...It's mine now why would I sell it ?...
Marcel   8)

[Paul_H]

What type of wood are you milling,Marcel?

The oldtimer that sold me his mill has told me he misses it,and has come by to see us a couple of times.

[EZ]

Fla-Deadheader,
About the boxes, I thought I posted about what I got. They let me bring 1 of the boxes home & build one just like it. I took them down & they told me that they wood get back at me. Iwaited for three days until I seen the box I made. I told my boss about it & he said they needed 4 more, I told him that I needed paid for the one I built. He told me to go up to the front office & see what they say, The guy said he thought everything was already taking care of, so any way I have a contract until May, then they wont need them any more. I build them for about $50.00 & they pay $350.00. 8)
EZ

[Norm]

We bought our mill when we decided to build our new house with the intention of just using it for ourselves. I have not kept track but have probably not saved enough on the expense of buying wood to justify the mill. But the satisfaction of logging it milling it and then using it is. We sell enough wood on the side to keep us busy and installed a kiln because every woodworker seems to think the best wood is kiln dried.

For my own use I air dry it then stick it in the basement until it's dry. If I had posted that on WW I would be crucified but I still think the best wood has never seen a kiln.

Congrats on the contract EZ, hope you can find some other people that need custom crates.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Way to go EZ. I knew you were trying to get the deal, but, never heard back.

[Dave_Fullmer]

I bought a Shop Smith, paid over $4000 for it, and hardly used it for 4 years except for the first month.  But then I started using it quite regularly.  I also have a radial arm saw that I haven't used since I bought my DeWalt chop saw.  One thing I don't do is sell my tools once I have bought them.  I did that years ago with a tool I didn't think I would use and it wasn't 2 months and I had to buy a new one to replace it.  I know that perhaps I could rent tolls when I need them and probably cheaper than owning it but heck, I don't fish, I don't hunt, and I don't chase women (anymore).  Got to do something for fun.

Dave

[isawlogs]

 Hi Paul,
Most of what I saw is white pine, eastern cedar,red pine,white spruce I do saw a variety of hardwoods. I bought the edger while sawing 35000 bf of sugar maple it just made more sence then edging on the mill,grades where easier to get with the edger.I also work with a crew doing log houses, sawing the peices needed for the framing (floor joist purlins ridge poles ect. ...they also do timber frames which I saw for them )
        

[arj]

I bought mine when I retired, present to ME. No payments just a hobby to cut my own trees into lumber as I needed. But somebody told somebody that I had a mill, now I over run with logs and more coming. I keep telling them this is only a HOBBY but they just say NO RUSH. I try to saw 2 or 3 short days a week but wifes projects, grandkids, and  what ever keep interrupting my fun.         arj

[Don P]

I bought mine to clean up after a few bad storm years and justified the expense to my wife as being my "bass boat". She rolled her eyes and I ain't selling my boat. I doubt I've paid for it in cash jobs, but she has even said it has paid its way in wod around here. As we brought a load of planed wood up to the house yesterday she remarked that it was really cool knowing it came from the tree behind the house.

[Ed_K]

 Way to go EZ  ;).
 Now try the machine shops in your area, they ship iregular size parts in wood boxes. Premium $ for the iregular shapes.
 Ed K

[Fla._Deadheader]

Now, THAT's a good idea!!

[biziedizie]

Now that's some good thinking! I'm going to look into that as well. There's a place that makes spools for cable down the road and I used to get firewood from them. The amount of lumber that they waste makes me think that maybe I should supply them with the odd sizes that they use.

  Steve

[EZ]

Hi all,
Well right now I'm stuck between a rock & a hard place. I'm out of lumber, Iwent down my back 40 & cut 2 oak trees down. Cluch is out of the dozer, DD wont pull them up because of ice, I have 2 sawing jobs that I'm sawing for half, but I cant get to them because of ice & snow. I dont have a glue of how to buy logs. So right now I'm just sitting here trying to figure out what the heck I'm going to do.
EZ

[biziedizie]

Hey EZ sounds like you need some sunshine! BTW what's a DD? When you say ice is a prob is this like a frozen pond or just ice on the ground? When I was stuck last week for getting a very large log out I just rapped a cable around the log about 20 times and pulled it out. It made the log act like a winch and the tractor drove like it was pulling a toothpick. Might want to give that a try.

   Steve

[EZ]

Been a long winter, I'm ready for some 80 degree weather. The road way going down the hill has been ice & snow, I put chains on the back of DD(dodge dakota) & still could'nt pull the logs up. Dont no what you mean about rapping cable around the log.
EZ

[Fla._Deadheader]

Another way to "roll" a log out, is to fasten the end to something stout and pass the cable around the log, from the bottom to over the top. Then when you winch or pull, it will roll the same way as Diz explains. Might have to position the log or cable, occasionally??

[MrMoo]

I use my mill on weekends. I look at it as a good tool to have given I have a woodlot. I feel that in the long run it will pay for itself but it will take some time. It won't pay for itself in $ but rather in lumber for myself, the family, and friends.
Having it has changed my outlook on lumber. It used to be that I hoarded every piece of lumber that I had. I looked at it with an attitude of you never know know when you can use it. Now I look at as I will never need for lumber. I guess I still hoard my lumber though, I just hate to waste something.

As far as tools go I never sell or get rid of tools. Once I absorb having put the cash out for it I think of it as an investment. They may never pay for themselves but on that day that you need it to fix something or build something it feels very good to go into the cellar and pull out the tool you need to do the job.

Happy millin...

[Don P]

Selling your tools strikes me as about the dumbest or last resort thing a human can do.
Dad has gone to Russia and Bulgaria teaching platform frame construction and both my folks did a stint with Peace Corps in Moldova. In all these places the tools had dissappeared. The carpenters that showed up for work in Russia had ball peen hammers, no saws, shovels...nuthin. They remembered having nail guns and such but as far as he could tell had sold it all for a quick buck. I guess I've never been in such straits, but friend, that is your last meal :-/.

[Tom]

Doesn't that come under "Don't eat the brood sow"?

[biziedizie]

I hire guys every once in awhile that are excellent carpenters that know what they're doing but they have no tools because there in the pawn shops. I always ask them why they would pawn a tool that can help them make money and they never really give me a straight answer.
  I find that some of these guys have no great outlook on life and they live for today and that's just the way they are.
  I could never sell a tool that I knew I needed no matter how broke I was! I would sell the dog, the cat, the banjo, the wife...ooopps she's already gone! If it makes you money never sell it!

    Steve

[RMay]

One thing about guys that sell and pawn there tools is you can get some great buys . 8)

[solidwoods]

I bought a Kasco IIB in 92.  The plan was (I was at year 10, US Army), use the mill for construction lumber for me, House, shop, out bldg., mill wood for my furniture making business (about 30-50mbf per year).
I pick the woods I need for furniture, sell the rest, sell some 2xs whenever.
Build up/School up part time , graduate Army 2002 shift to full time. All equip paid for.

I cut about 50,000bf or less a year
I built a 1000bf propane direct fire kiln, mostly dry 20%mc or less lumber. The kiln is in my shop and doubles as a finishing room.  When I kiln, the heat can be vented into the shop (radiant heat already happens) mostly a winter benefit.  I run the kiln during work hours, and don't do much for hire drying since this type of drying in not "full use" dollar efficient (if that makes any sense). Bottom line kiln almost no noticeable drying degrade, no stress related defects (I wood work this lumber so I know how it acts) and color excellent  (kiln type and schedule can affect color on some woods)
A 3000bf Solar is 75% complete today. It will be for thick lumber.
75% of the lumber I cut is "Value Added" TG boards, S4S,etc
Other pieces I went with:
$10,000      Kasco IIB w/trailer pkg,  sharpener/setter (chopsaw type) this is non hyd mill, elec feed/blade height  
$6500      Knuckleboom truck  1978 IH cab/chassis w/ prentice H series light use road worthy condition
$600      Foley Belsaw  edger 20"  (I think)
$1500      1972 Ford backhoe (add $1500 for engine rebuild, 200 for forks) This is used as forklift
$1000      5 ton cap, trailer for hauling logs.
$2500      Cat claw auto sharpener , Timberwolf dual tooth setter, hand held tooth set gauge
Total
$22100      (just about the price of a hyd blue or orange mill)

Could I earn a living with just the sawmill equip?  Got me! The Devil is in the variables, location, dedication to skill, and luck.
But I like the above formula better than $20,000 for a hyd mill and nothing else.  
 Because I saw real quick that I could mill way more wood than I could move around by hand.  The truck/ trailer lets me get free or purchased logs,  put them on the log deck (or remove half a huge one from the mill, too work), I also hang trusses, and remove trees stump and all.  Or if you buy tractor trailer loads, you can handle it.

I use the sharpener for some side business of sharpening blades.
Also having my own sharpening lets me get some free logs from Tree Clearing svc. and mill them (yard trees have metal..just keep saying that)
I also built a 1600sq' shop with about $20,000 wood working equip.
JIM