How Yellowhammer Sees and Saws Stuff

[YellowHammer]

So the first part of the question is easy. We air dry our 8/4 walnut for a year as we stockpile it for when the demand arises.  As air drying wood, say under 18% or less moisture, I can put it in a kiln and finish drying and sterilization in 7 days, generally.  So in this case we had sold quite a bit of walnut the previous 2 weeks, and used the little kiln as a quick response tool to produce one good pack of live edge walnut that I knew I needed out this last weekend for sale.  So that was the push, and within days of us cleaning it up, it is sold and gone.  However, in the meantime, I was able to finish a cycle on our big kiln and reload it with 4 packs of 8/4 walnut and it should be done and in time to get at least one pack ready for restock this next weekend.  So I won't miss a beat on having 8/4 walnut ready to sell.

The second part of the question, as to whether to saw parallel or perpendicular to the pith is detailed and has been covered here several times, and yes, the general rule is to saw parallel to the pith check to contain it, or diagonally to them which would put the defects in the edges of boards.  However, I will go exactly opposite to general convention on some certain species, dictated by the end product use and its value.  8/4 walnut is invariably used for tables, and must be flat so I throw the "rules" out the window.  

It's "dangerous" to use the strategy I do, unless you really plan ahead, and I bet I will get some flack for this strategy because it purposely center heart check in several boards, but video proves it works, so here goes.  Using conventional strategy, if a log has a significant pith check several inches long, and if you contain that pith check or crack in one board, possibly two, and if the cracks are long enough, then certainly one, if not two boards will be intentionally sawn with defects and be ruined.  On purpose.  Here's the problem: my walnut sells for $20 per bdft and an average width slab of mine will sell for $400.  So conventional wisdom of containing a long crack or major pith check horizontally in one or two boards could cost me $800.  That's on EVERY log, and that's big potential lost money.  So I'm will orient the check perpendicular to the board and fully expect the heart check to happen, and expect it to bifurcate the board.  That's fine for several reason.  The crack indicates which direction the stress is and a check perpendicular to the board means the stress is in the crook, not bow, plane and the boards will dry extremely flat because the stress has been oriented and targeted to produce flat boards.  In addition, since the boards with pith check are through sawn, they are essentially quartersawn, and will stay flat for that reason.  So I've doubled up on the sawing strategy to produce flat wood boards with a big crack running right middle.  However, just like the center 2 or 3 boards of any quartersawn log, these center cut boards must then have the pith check ripped out with an edger and the wane removed.  When that happens, it produces two extremely flat and stable quartersawn boards, which in walnut, is very difficult to get and demands a high price.

So then the question will be asked as to why I don't just do all the trimming green, on the mill?  It's because walnut live edge slabs are also prized, and if I edge everything on the mill, I won't have any live edge slabs to sell, so I would lose an entire product stream.  So with 8/4 walnut I will always mill with a strategy, if the log allows, of getting dual use live edge slabs that I can also use for QS edged wood.  Then we pull them from the kiln, sort them as to which slab would make the best end product, and process them accordingly.  Two products from one cut.  I don't use this strategy for low value wood, but only where it's worthwhile.  

Hope this helps explain my strategy.  

[SawyerTed]

It's a great explanation and obviously the strategy works well.  As usual there's good information there!  

Your strategy fits within a much bigger picture of downstream processing and final lumber products.  It is significant that you do/control the secondary processing after using this technique.  It is also important to reiterate that you are satisfying a specific inventory need in your retail store. 

Without the control of secondary processing, your warning about the technique being dangerous is important and shouldn't be overlooked.  

If a customer doesn't understand why the crack is centered AND how to process the slabs, a portable sawyer will have an unhappy customer.  I do have a handful of customers who would understand, most would require convincing.  

Knowing when to apply an unconventional sawing technique and educating customers is all part of this business.

[YellowHammer]

 :D  Yep, some of my tips should come with a disclaimer "Don't try this at home because severe damage can result." :D :D

That's one reason I titled the topic as it is.  I sometimes see and do things a little different.  

[Resonator]

Watching the video there's a substantial investment in tooling (industrial wood working machines) to produce that walnut. I can see that twin laser edger making the difference in turning cracked boards, into high dollar boards. Would take much more handling to do that same "optimizing" process on the mill.

[Larry]

Good food for thought YH.

I saw thick walnut in a similar way.  Never ever try to contain the pith crack in a board or two.  Sometimes I will saw with the crack diagonal to keep it on the edges.  This is for a log that I know will be all clean edge 8/4.  Some prefer flat sawn over quarter sawed in walnut.  Don't forget the chair makers...they can use short boards but need em 10" wide for two piece seats.

One of the cool things with a vertical crack in live edge slabs is it presents the maker with at least four design options.  They can do nothing, rip out the crack, use butterfly's, or fill with resin.

Another good video!

[TSAW]

Okay that makes more sense that you had it already in your production line throw in kiln and get it to market.  Thanks for the explanation.

the general rule is to saw parallel to the pith check to contain it, or diagonally to them which would put the defects in the edges of boards.  However, I will go exactly opposite to general convention on some certain species, dictated by the end product use and its value.  8/4 walnut is invariably used for tables, and must be flat so I throw the "rules" out the window.  

Awesome thoughts on how to get the most you can out of a valuable species, and I appreciate the detailed explanation, along with your reasoning for doing such.  I have not considered the cost implications of just sawing the crack out and having a large amount of waste or multiple boards with defects.  Thanks again for the help.

[YellowHammer]

Yeah, we have definitely invested in some equipment, and each piece was bought to do one or more steps of the process over the years as we expanded and grew.  It's always a guessing game, what will sell this month, this season, or even this year.  So every tool must be able to do multiple things and support multiple products at any given time.  We have 47 different species and cuts in stock these days, and process everything from my sawn and dried wood, to someone else's sawn and me drying it, and even stuff like exotics where it comes over from the Congo or Africa where it's already kiln dried and I have to plane and process it to sell.

I remember a few years ago when customers started complaining we were cleaning up our live edge slabs too much, if you can believe it.  They said "How can we put in butterfly's if there isn't any cracks?"  Well, that was an easy problem to fix.  Then we get into the charcuterie board thing, where everyone this November and December was wanting 4/4 live edge walnut boards and we had to turn and burn them instead of 4/4 edged wood, because we had already moved past that step.  To boot, I sawed up some 4/4 butternut live edge (made a video of that) to take the pressure off the walnut 4/4 live edge we didn't have, and flash kiln dried that and sold it in a couple weeks and got through Christmas.  So it's like predicting the weather, sometimes it's easy, sometimes not.    

[Peter Drouin]

 So it's like predicting the weather, sometimes it's easy, sometimes not.    

Like last year, all my customers wanted 10' lumber, 1"--2" 4x4-6x6, and on and on. I had to call and get a truck full of 10' logs, :

[YellowHammer]

Right, the biggest advantage of a sawmill is that it gives me the ability to quickly change directions and products.  Having a sawmill has bailed me out quite a few times and gives me a distinct edge over my competition.  Its a "quick reaction" ability they don't have.  We did have a local company that bought a sawmill and a kiln to directly compete against us.  Before long, they ran through their employee force trying to find a "Sawyer" in the mix, and no luck.  Then they trashed a few loads of wood in their kiln, and then asked me to be their consultant to get up and running.  Are you kidding?  So now that stuff just sits there, and every now and then I hear they start it up and then they realize they don't know how to use it, and shut it down again.  They asked me for "lessons" and told them to watch Youtube. :D :D :D

A lot of the people on this Forum are really experienced and skilled, and it's easy to lose sight that's it's harder than it looks to saw "good" wood, and it's more than just buying equipment.  

[OlJarhead]

Amen!  I have a lot to learn from everyone here and hope I never stop learning!

[SawyerTed]

What you are describing, Yellowhammer, is the difference between a strategic business (yours) versus a tactical business (the competitor).  

Tactics are things like buying equipment to compete rather than strategically buying equipment to meet customer needs.  

That's what defines the sawing techniques you use.  Each one is a strategy among strategies which all point to your end goals.

That's what sets your business apart from so many.   Just because they have a sawmill, kiln, edger, planer etc doesn't necessarily mean they are strategically positioned to be competitive.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Ted Puts a good point on Robert's experience and I have seen it all too many times in my prior career. The bean counters in the office say "Hey, there is a LOT of money to be made by doing what so and so does! We can do it better, we have more money and we can always hire more people!" Stupid me would sit at the other end of the table and try to explain why so and so was doing such good business, how many years they spent figuring it out, the highly skilled and trained people they had doing the work as well as mentioned that they were paid for their skills which 'we' didn't like to do. They would blow me off as the nay sayer every single time and go spend a LOT of money and the rest of the story was as Robert related. They could NEVER understand why it didn't work, and stupid me would invite them out on the shop floor to actually try to understand the work and SEE why. Rarely was I taken up on the offer, and even if they came out, they spent 10 minutes and still didn't get it.

 I can't imagine starting from scratch and trying to 'make a sawyer' without having a journeyman to train him/her. So much to know and nobody to teach it. They asked you to consult, that is rich. Just like when the college let me go as an adjunct instructor because I didn't have a teacher's ticket. Then they tried to get me to teach the kid instructor how to teach the material. I told them I spent 45 years learning and using this stuff, I can't teach him in a few hours. I can explain it for him, but I can't understand it for him. I said 'No Thanks' too.

 Sometimes people deserve to fail in the most spectacular manner. Too bad most of those folks never realize why. Cheap labor isn't skilled, skilled labor isn't cheap.

[Machinebuilder]

Yall bring up a good point without saying it.

In general HR, Management and bean counters think anyone can do anything.

When i worked in industrial maintenance, here in TN we are all "Multiskilled" which to them means we are all experts at everything.

I never became an expert, I am a very good jack of all trades that can get more done than many  experts.

What I like are the "CNC machinest" that just know how to load a part and hit start.

I am a very novice sawmill operator that by accident makes good boards sometimes, I am getting better.

[TSAW]

@YellowHammer , Sorry I have more questions for you. I was watching your video again on the walnut when you pull it out of the kiln, and noticed that you have concrete slabs on top of the lumber it would appear that it is roughly 1500 pounds, is this an average weight you put on a stack of lumber while drying?  Also, do you put that amount of weight on all your lumber stacks for air drying first?  I would assume that you then put the tin or other covering over top of the whole stack and weights?  Do you or anyone you know use the drying fabric around high value wood like this to help reduce exposure to elements while air drying?

[SawyerTed]

TSAW, I have a customer who has built several drying sheds that hold around 1 Mbdft each.  He uses a drying fabric around his sheds and gets very good results 

[TSAW]

Thanks Ted, I have seen the product and just not sure if it is worth the money to spend for lumber stored outside, right now I don't have a drying shed (possible future project) all my stuff gets currently stacked and stickered with a piece of tin or two over top till I can dry it in a small solar kiln.

[SawyerTed]

He also has used plain landscape fabric.  It's cheaper. 

[Stephen1]

I built 3 drying sheds when I 1st started, the sun and wind dried the wood way to fast. I then purchased shade cloth from HD. it is rated at 65% and 75% . The 75% goes around the Oak drying shed as I try to slow the AD in that shed. 

[YellowHammer]

With 4" concrete at 50 lbs per square foot, I have about 3,000 lbs give or take on all my kiln stacks.  I don't put weights on air drying stacks, but I do put other stacks on top of them for weight.  Top weights are crucial when drying, kind of like pressing a flower in the pages of a book.  

I have a few air drying sheds, all covered, some with walls, some not.  The wood that goes into them is determined by its maximum allowable drying rate, and the atmospheric conditions.  Shade dry would be useful for white oak, but may cause sticker stain on poplar.

With multiple stacks, put the stuff that can be air dried fast on the outside rows, the non tolerant on the inside rows.

Keeps the rain out from between the layers.

   

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks, I appreciate it.  I try to make them informative as well as not too boring.  Everything we make in the video is "Real" and made with the intention to sell.

Here is a video of me using our Baker edger cleaning up some walnut slabs.  An edger is a great thing, it allows me to cut one product (live edge slabs) to make two (Live edge slabs and also 8/4 quartersawn walnut)  

With all the talk recently about sawing through the pith, some of you may notice that I prefer, on some cuts, to saw right through the pith, just as in quartersawing the center boards out of logs.  However, as I usually do, I will do it slightly differently in this case and cut perpendicular the the heart check and not contain it in as few boards as possible, but saw it to crack through as many boards as it wants to.  This may sound counterintuitive, but remember how many times I say that I will saw to avoid bow but not crook?  So this is a good example.  Sawing perpendicular to the heart check will put the stress in the crook direction that I can edge later, and will make the boards come out very flat.  Flat as needed for table tops.  

Anyway, I didn't discuss it in the video as it gets "too deep" but when you see me running the edger, you can see in most cases I'm cutting the two boards out around each perpendicular pith crack or any other check, and making two very flat, quartersawn 8/4 walnut boards out of one live edge slab.

https://youtu.be/mhh1Yr5VV7s


If you are wondering if wood like this sells, we did this edging video during this last week, and here are two of the customers with the boards being loaded into vehicles and sold today. These slabs are being loaded into a BMW, and the other QSW are destined to be a table and heading out on the trailer.  Notice how flat and straight the boards are.  Quartersawn walnut, no knots, dead clear, dead flat. All the walnut I edged on the Baker in the video are sold and gone.  About half the walnut slabs in the video are gone.  As I said in the video, treat them with care and it's good money.  






 
 

Absolutely fantastic video!! Informative,  beautiful eye candy gold and some great safety tips! As always nice job Yellowhammer and thanks for sharing!!

[YellowHammer]

As I've mentioned many times, we hear from lots of people who buy wood from other sawmills (notice I didn't call them Sawyers) and the product falls apart, or isn't dry, or isn't sawn properly, or any number of other things.  I always wonder if the guy selling the wood is just flat up lying about it, or do they really not know, or they really just don't care.  Either way, they make money on unsuspecting customers who trust them.  So one of the reasons I make these videos is to help people who want to get more knowledgeable or maybe learn techniques they can use themselves.  I admit, some of the stuff I do can be unconventional, or a "Proceed at your own risk" kind of thing, but I do use these techniques and patterns in real life.  On the other hand, I'm always learning new stuff here, so it works both ways.  

Here is this week's example:  A building contractor calls who is doing an install for a local Facebook IT office in town (big money) because the owner says that the supposedly kiln dried 8/4 walnut mantle he installed had split like a lizard tongue and is demanding a replacement. The contractor goes to look at it, and sure enough, it's bad, really bad.  So he calls me up, sends me a photo, asks my opinion because when he called the guy who sawed and dried it (not), he was simply told "the wood will do what the wood will do."

He said I would know the seller because he mentioned us by name and then told the contractor that his stuff was better than ours.  So the contractor figured if they were using us as the benchmark then he ought to call us and see what I thought.  Of course after looking at the picture, I said it's pretty obvious... the wood sawn wrong and it wasn't dried correctly, either. :D  So I told him it was a very predictable and total fail, and sorry, but I see it all the time so don't feel too bad.

So he's coming tomorrow, first thing, to get a piece of our 8/4 walnut, and when I told him how much it was, he said he'd paid more for the other one.  So he was 0 for 3.  Not a happy camper.  

However he said he wouldn't have cared if it was twice the price because his reputation was at stake and he wants to get the store owner happy.  

So...I always wonder when I hear these about the guy he bought it from.  Was he a crook, ignorant, or just didn't care?  

[Andries]

It could be that he's that 'special mix' of all three. 

[customsawyer]

I don't think most are trying to be crooks. I think that their wood has always "done what it's going to do" and they don't even realize there is another way. I do know of a few that are crooks but that is a different story.

[Peter Drouin]

Cutting good lumber and standing behind what you sell is very important.

[TSAW]

He also has used plain landscape fabric.  It's cheaper.

Does it seem to work as well as the specialty fabric?  I have a few hundred feet that I got on clearance I might give it a try.  Thanks