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Straightening rails and bracing on mill

Started by esarratt, January 22, 2023, 07:05:44 PM

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esarratt

I bought a used mill awhile back, a Norwood 29.  Some of the rails and cross bracing are bent.  It is affecting how the mill rides on the rails.

How do you recommend that I straighten the pieces?




 

 

 

 

 


Crusarius

that poor mill. I would recommend a pipe wrench and a hammer.

Or the better option is to replace the rails that are bent. Unless you are really good at reshaping metal it will never be perfect.

If you are good at fabrication you can cut out the bad sections and weld in good ones. Hmm those pieces are probably galvanized so I go back to replacement would be the best option

esarratt

Quote from: Crusarius on January 22, 2023, 07:30:18 PM
that poor mill. I would recommend a pipe wrench and a hammer.

Or the better option is to replace the rails that are bent. Unless you are really good at reshaping metal it will never be perfect.

If you are good at fabrication you can cut out the bad sections and weld in good ones. Hmm those pieces are probably galvanized so I go back to replacement would be the best option
Thank you for your help.

My metal reshaping skills are novice at best.

I have thought about taking the bent pieces to a machine shop.  Would that be a good option?

Yes, they are galvanized.

I have also considered replacing the rails, but I'm afraid I would have to fabricate everything; my understanding is Norwood does not sell parts to 2nd owners.

esteadle

This saw has 10 gauge galvanized for rails.
10 gauge is good for filing cabinets and parts trays.
I don't think it's all that great for saw rails that are built to hold 20+" diameter logs.
Maybe if logs are all white pine. Not oaks, that's for sure.

Magicman

Quote from: esarratt on January 22, 2023, 07:42:11 PMmy understanding is Norwood does not sell parts to 2nd owners.
I would make a call to Norwood. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

esarratt


bigblockyeti

Quote from: esteadle on January 22, 2023, 08:13:26 PM
This saw has 10 gauge galvanized for rails.
10 gauge is good for filing cabinets and parts trays.
I don't think it's all that great for saw rails that are built to hold 20+" diameter logs.
Maybe if logs are all white pine. Not oaks, that's for sure.
I dunno, this video suggests otherwise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uxBV-bAAwA
I'd love to find a 10ga steel parts tray, do you know of any or was that just armchair quarterbacking?
I know ford and chevy use steel that's almost 10ga for their half ton truck frame rails.

chet

Not sure how the saw bed is constructed, but can a new piece of angle or whatever be welded or bolted right over the length of the existing track?
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Patrick NC

Norwood will sell parts to any verified owner.  First or tenth.  A call to Norwood from the previous owner or a bill of sale should suffice.  Replacement will be your best option. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

Patrick NC

Quote from: esteadle on January 22, 2023, 08:13:26 PM
This saw has 10 gauge galvanized for rails.
10 gauge is good for filing cabinets and parts trays.
I don't think it's all that great for saw rails that are built to hold 20+" diameter logs.
Maybe if logs are all white pine. Not oaks, that's for sure.
The strength of Norwood rails comes from its embossed laminate design.  I've had 28"x 16' white oak on my hd36.  No problems 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

esteadle

Quote from: bigblockyeti on January 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: esteadle on January 22, 2023, 08:13:26 PMI dunno, this video suggests otherwise Portable Sawmills Torture Test - Log Deck on the LumberPro HD36 Band Sawmill Strongest in Class - YouTube
I was going by the pictures at the start of this thread, which were the real world pictures I was responding to. The marketing video that you sent from 10 years ago well... I can see the careful placement of logs and the sag of an I-flange clearly in this video. Neat. I don't understand why the jacks are not set.

Anyway, 36% steel weights are only an aspect of a rail design. The box beam of most mill designs, with a v-track roller that adds stiffness and a straight track are what prove out to be winning designs. A sawmill is firstly, a level plane on which to saw straight, consistent lumber. A bent track not suitable for that.

My best advice: Replace the rails. But try to do so with something better. Not a flange. I think a box beam.

Ianab

As a temporary fix can you put the bent sections at the end of the mill so the blade isn't engaged as the head runs over the them? 

Then order some replacement pieces. As I understand the design it comes as relatively short sections that bolt together. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Crusarius

I think IANAB is onto something. Try to relocate them. 

But I also agree with calling Norwood. I had good luck with them when I was interested in purchasing a mill. You may be able to just buy extensions and replace the bad sections.

esarratt

Quote from: chet on January 22, 2023, 08:50:45 PM
Not sure how the saw bed is constructed, but can a new piece of angle or whatever be welded or bolted right over the length of the existing track?
I hadn't thought of that.  Yes that could help with some pieces.

esarratt

Quote from: Patrick NC on January 22, 2023, 09:00:35 PM
Norwood will sell parts to any verified owner.  First or tenth.  A call to Norwood from the previous owner or a bill of sale should suffice.
Excellent! Thank you.

esarratt

Quote from: esteadle on January 22, 2023, 09:22:19 PM
My best advice: Replace the rails. But try to do so with something better. Not a flange. I think a box beam.
Yes, I have considered this. 
I have been trying to work out the kinks with the original rails. 

esarratt

Quote from: Ianab on January 22, 2023, 09:27:36 PM
As a temporary fix can you put the bent sections at the end of the mill so the blade isn't engaged as the head runs over the them?
Yes, this is one of the reasons I took it apart.

Quote
Then order some replacement pieces. As I understand the design it comes as relatively short sections that bolt together.
Correct.

esarratt

Quote from: Crusarius on January 22, 2023, 10:03:20 PM
I think IANAB is onto something. Try to relocate them.

But I also agree with calling Norwood. I had good luck with them when I was interested in purchasing a mill. You may be able to just buy extensions and replace the bad sections.
Some of this is my attempt to save some money by straightening pieces if possible.
Norwood extensions seem to me to be pricey compared to buying equivalent metal parts from a local metal supply.

esarratt

Would there be any value in getting a machinists straight edge and a 90 degree corner to help me straighten some of the parts?

I have never straightened anything this large.

Or is this just a waste of time?

Ianab

I don't think you need precision tools. More like a chunk of old railway iron and a big hammer. The track doesn't need to be perfect to the last 1/1000", just eye-o-meter straight.  Something bashed it hard to bend it, some selective bashing might get it back into usable shape. But I would price the replacement parts before I bought tools to fix them. Easy to spend $200 to fix a $100 part.  :-\

Been there, done that. But hey, it was a welder, and it should fix a lot more things in the future. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

beenthere

Quote from: esarratt on January 23, 2023, 02:02:22 AM
Would there be any value in getting a machinists straight edge and a 90 degree corner to help me straighten some of the parts?

I have never straightened anything this large.

Or is this just a waste of time?
Do you have a shop press? Might be the type of investment Ianab was referring to that would have benefit for other applications after fixing these rails. 
I'd prefer using a press to "iron" out the bends shown in the OP photo's (if replacement isn't possible). 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

esarratt

Quote from: beenthere on January 23, 2023, 05:05:04 AM
Do you have a shop press? Might be the type of investment Ianab was referring to that would have benefit for other applications after fixing these rails.

I'd prefer using a press to "iron" out the bends shown in the OP photo's (if replacement isn't possible).
No, but a buddy of mine does.  He has let me use it before.  I'll keep yall posted.
Thank you for your input.  It is always easier (and cheaper) to put more eyes on the problem.

Stephen1

I always try to fix things myself, if I can not fix it the worst that will happen is you have to buy new, the best that can happen is you fix it. 8)
You never know util you try.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Magicman

The problem with straightening is that when metal is bent it expands. When straightened there is excess metal that has to go somewhere and possibly causes wrinkles.  Auto body shops constantly deal with this.

You may can replace the longer pieces and cut/replace the shorter pieces from the damaged longer pieces.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

Personally, I would pull them, put one of them in my truck, carry it to the nearest steel supply shop, and get new steel of the same size (or the next gauge up), galvanized or not, most likely not, because I'm not a big fan of galvanized.  

Most steel supply shops will gladly cut it to length for a buck per cut, so I'd give them a cut list and they would have it done by the time I could back the truck up to the bay door.  Then bring the pieces home, match drill the holes, hit it with some paint, and install it.

If your buddy has press, he should have the knowledge or tools to help you drill the holes.  You could be up and running very quickly.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

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