Hello,
I am putting on my second pine floor incorporating lessons learned from putting a similar floor on my main floor 4 years ago. This will not be a trophy floor but rather one that will have rustic character and won't bring tears to my eyes very time a piece of furniture dings it or a dog scratches it. It is white pine after all!
First I went and pulled some boards I had milled a year or so ago. They have been stickered under tin in my field and "pretty" dry.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_7896.JPG)
4 years ago, I clamped a 16dft piece of angle iron to my table saw and re-ripped/edged each board. This time I decided to do it in bulk and re-edged the boards 10+ at a time on my mill with a new band.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_7895.JPG)
The end result was not perfect, but "good enough" for me for upstairs bedrooms. We know the boards will shrink some, but they didn't much on my first floor. If it really becomes a problem, I can always wedge hemp rope in the cracks. Needless to say, it was significantly faster bulk edging on the mill than one at a time on the table saw!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_7897.jpg)
Next step was to hump them up to the second floor, but I got my daughter to help and she even said I didn't have to get her anything for Christmas as I was putting a floor in her room!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_7902.JPG)
my stack eventually got re-stickered....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_7918.jpg)
I put two box fans on them and let them blow for a couple of weeks. Every few days I repositioned them. Last time I built a tent and put a dehumidifier in there as well but I figured air volume was my friend this time. I did not blow on the end grain though as I wanted to dry them slower, so I always blew in from the sides...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_7948.JPG)
Tremont or masonry nails are a nice look, but I also figure a case of tendonitis. I paint the heads black on ringshanks for my air nailer and turn the pressure up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8096.jpg)
After giving the boards a few weeks inside with the fans on, the dust had gone from slightly damp to dry and it was time to install.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8104.JPG)
I cut them to length and butt them up, biscuit jointing the butts.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8101.jpg)
I am enjoying this thread with your pictures! :P
Thanks for taking the time!
I am going with random widths, but each row has to have the same width obviously.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8102.jpg)
And this is about where I am now.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8105.jpg)
I will post more pics as progress occurs but I will sand in place with a floor sander at some point.
Looking forward to your up dates.
On my main floor 4 years ago, I installed roughly every 7th row barkside down or "happy". Someone suggested that would allow those to expand when the others contracted to fill the gaps. It didn't make sense to me then either and time has seen minimal shrinkage regardless. An issue with installing boards that way is "shelling" where the heart wood is more likely to splinter, so I am doing my best to install the boards this time "frown down" or barkside up. That said, it is not so significant an issue that I will waste a waney board.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8124.jpg)
IN the thresholds I just ripped a piece the thickness of my walls and put a biscuit where the boards butt up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8127.JPG)
One room down, two to go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8136.JPG)
there is one gap Im not too excited about, but overall I believe using the mill to edge the boards as worth the significant time savings. I had a few gaps with the table saw method too and simply paying closer attention to constant widths in each row would have prevented my issue.That is why I started in the kids rooms.... Live and learn.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8137.JPG)
Anxious to see that floor after you do the sanding and finishing. Has potential for sure.
You mentioned shelling from the heart side, but from the spike knots showing in the flooring and the large through knots, the raised knots may be a much bigger issue. Time will tell.
Hmmmm,
I have knots all over my main floor and they haven't been an issue in the 4 years they have been down. They are installed over radiant tubes as well.
When rough sawn flooring is installed, how exactly do you sand it smooth?
Is it less labor intensive that using planed lumber?
Very interesting and thanks for the great pics. Looking forward to your updates. Your daughter will be happy to have that pretty new floor too.
I use a floor drum sander that you can get at almost rental place. The sander makes every board on the same level, so arguably better but the reason I sand in place is hauling 2500 bdft down to the shop and sending 16 footers thru the planer and hauling them back up to the house is a lot more work. Keep in mind too this is white pine. It will dent fairly easily, so my logic was the more perfect you make the floor in the first place, the more disappointed you will be when it gets damaged.
So here are some pics of the floor I did 4 years ago. I had piles of boards from cutting the timbers for my frame, but they were all different widths, so I didn't have enough of any one width to stretch the entire 53 ft of my house, so I put some of it at 45 degree angle. To give you the idea, here is an overall shot.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8162.JPG)
I started in a back room and placed the butts on the joists with plumb cuts. This worked fine but there was a fair bit of waste as my workable lengths didn't jibe with the layout and the wide boards meant a bunch of useless big triangle scraps. Probably could have done a whole other room with those but the cookouts were well supplied for a while...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8155.jpg)
For the other areas, I just let the lengths fall where they did and carried on with square cuts. This method had little waste. (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8157.jpg)
One thing I am pleasantly surprised at is there is little shrinkage in the winter. Maybe an 8th, and this is over radiant tubes.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8164.JPG)
Note the gaps and dents.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8150.JPG)
They are there, but not alarming so.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8152.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8156.jpg)
Looks nice.. I like the paint your own building blocks.. they look cool w/ the diff. pictures.
Had to take a double triple take on the kids room. The sticker stains fooled me - thought they were the ends of boards and you had a few courses ending at nearly the same point. +1 can't wait to to see the finished product.
I like the random angle feature on the main floor. I'm stuck with on the 45 for all of it (engineer requirement).
You mentioned painting the nail heads - does the paint hold up to the air nailer - no chips? I haven't decided if I want to have flush nails (that will get sanded) or counter sunk like you did. IIRC, my engineer is calling for 3 nails on 8" wide boards - but that might just be at the ends of them.
It is just a floor. It is meant to be walked on and used, not hung on the wall. Good deal. Looking forward to the finished product.
The paint on the nails held up well regardless of flavor used. I'm sure there are chips but I can't notice. You have to turn the pressure up (or countersink by hand) the nails because of the sanding. For engineer world, I would think the subfloor would end the conversation but these boards are a full one inch thick, so if countersunk a quarter inch (and I doubt I'm even doing that) there would still be 3/4" of holding wood. If you needed more holding wood you could mill thicker boards. I would try to avoid a nail in the middle, because if you do have shrinkage, you would be more prone to cracking. Try to sell him on the biscuits.
The main attraction for me with this floor system was the cost and relative ease. I already had the boards and the tools to do it myself. Using my air nailer is cheap and easy but also allows me to use leftover nails elsewhere. My main out of pocket expense was the finish. Tung oil and varnish.
What has grown on me is the character and comfort. It is not a perfect floor but it fits the house well. Does it squeak once in a while? Yes, but who cares? I will know when my kids are sneaking out to parties. If squeaking is a concern for you I bet rosin paper between layers would help. You could even put strips every few feet if $ was an issue.
That does look mighty fine!!!
Looks awesome.
You mention center nailing may lead to cracking. I thought if the board shrinks and swells with grain the best point to nail would be the center as it would move out from center in each direction.
Thanks for taking the time to post all these pictures, shinnlinger! I'm loving it. Old fashioned, simple, rugged, rustic. It just doesn't get any better.
Your flooring looks nice. I might do that in one of the bedrooms in my camp. ;D
I use 30lb roofing felt under the wood flooring helps with the creaks .
Bruno
As I now look at my floor, and you can see it in the pics, I in fact did center nail the wider boards and they have not split. A buddy of mine did a similar floor and countersunk screwed his floor down and plugged it. I haven't been at his place in a bit but I will inquire if he has had any splitting. A lot more work though IMO.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on January 03, 2016, 10:01:22 PM
I use 30lb roofing felt under the wood flooring helps with the creaks .
Bruno
This is what I'm doing in my camp build in between sub flooring. I will be doing that also for the real floor.
Today I got to sand a room.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0010.JPG)
I started with 100 grit but ended up going with 80 Next room I will start with 60 but 80 did leave some texture, which I like.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0015.JPG)
In the corners I used this little beast.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0023.jpg)
Every once in a while you have to sink the nails a bit further. The screws are for this areas where I needed a little more hold.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0009.JPG)
After running the sander in both directions I was pleased with the results.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0025.JPG)
So I vacuumed the dust and mixed up some tung oil. I thinned with it roughly 25% solvent to help it penetrate.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0030.JPG)
Rolled on the first coat and made it pop!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0031.JPG)
Pop is right!!
Very nice.
I like it.
I'm a big fan of rustic, really ike your floor!!!
Great Job!!
That first coat made a world of difference.
Quote from: isawlogs on January 10, 2016, 09:28:05 PM
I'm a big fan of rustic, really ike your floor!!!
Me too! I can't see how anybody would want fake, modern flooring. Also it boggles me how people will carpet over nice hardwood floors. Ugh. Thanks again for taking the time to put up the pictures. I'll be able to show the wife what good old fashioned flooring will look like in our addition.
I hit the floor with some more tung oil according to this site. http://www.realmilkpaint.com/products/oils/tung-oil-wood-finishes/#howtouse
I'll let you know how it turns out next weekend when I head back up there...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/FullSizeRender-6~1.jpg)
Floors look awesome!!! Great work. That tung oil really makes the floor character stand out.
Nice.
WOW! Thats gorgeous, I really like it. You do good work. I am also very impressed with the downstairs floor. I like the 45 to break up the distance it looks great!
DANG.... Love those floors!
Looks great Mr Shinn
I like pine floors they are under rated.
Any rustic wood floor look great .
Lots of old houses in NewEngland with just square edge boards . Old school .
Bruno
Great looking floor, we want to do something like that on our floors. We plan on putting up a post and beam in Canaan in a couple years. Not to hijack the thread, but how was the town when you went for your permit, and how were the inspections?
Thanks Dan
nh
Are you thinking the town inspector would have a problem with what flooring is laid down?
Or referring to the post and beam construction?
Timberframes are ok in Canaan. Pm sent.
For this room, I started with 60 grit and worked it both ways and then followed up with 80. It went faster but you can still see saw marks combined with almost too smooth, so I don't know if I like it as much.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0081.JPG)
But overall I am pleased...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0080.JPG)
My daughter snuck in and painted some trees on her walls between coats...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0082.JPG)
Nice on the wall paintings. Helps take the eyes off the floor. She is a good artist.
Boards must have had some cup in them to not sand out the centers.
Your making me want to start a new project! I really dont need pine floors in my shed tho :D
Looking great, i like the wall art too.
Shinnlinger,
Not sure that you have noticed, but you have trees growing in your house. :D :D :D :D
If I put down pine flooring will she come paint some trees on my wall? ;D
Those tree look mighty alive. A super job!!!!! Need a raccoon,squirrel or a deer looking out from behind one of those trees.
If you look close, she snuck some chickadees and a wooly bear in there. There is also a Cardinal but it didn't make this pic. Not sure if she is done painting yet or not. She wants me to put a loft in....
Now I see the chickadees.
I really like the way there are still some saw marks left in the wood.
The wall painting is so cool!!! Your daughter really has talent. And so do you.
Great floors and great walls. Fun painting on walls in always nice. One of my sons wanted a "forest at sunset on the walls, with stars and a nebula on the ceiling". I'll find a picture when life slows down and share.
For the building inspector side of things. We are finishing our timber frame addition in NH, but we started with an old barn and not new documented frame. We did visit with the inspector before putting any money down on our plans. He had a few questions and concerns mostly focused on connecting the frame posts to the foundation. We did a modern poured concrete foundation and basement with a stick framed first floor deck. I think that helped that we weren't trying to stand a two story living space on a stone foundation.
He came out and checked like a normal project. We tried as much as possible to meet code for stairs, railings, emergency exit windowns, etc to make his job easier. Overall he was very easy to work with, but talking ahead of time to address the inspectors concerns helped.
I think that the entire project if fantastic, but I wonder why I love the warm look of Pine flooring?? :)
Because....
- Easy to grow
- Easy to saw
- Easy to dry
- Easy to install
- Easy to sand
- Easy to finish
- And it looks really good once done!!!!
- ;D :D :)
Yes to all of the above. 8)
I haven't been able to make up my mind what floor to put in the Billarosa great-room. This is now in 1st place. I like it!! 8) 8)
About the finish. how many coats do you put down, are you sanding or using steel wool in between and do you continue to thin the tongue oil on successive coats?
At first I thinned 25% and put on one coat but then the guy I buy my oil from mentioned the manufactures site. http://www.realmilkpaint.com/products/oils/tung-oil-wood-finishes/#howtouse
I have since flooded 50-50 every 40 minutes. 2-3 coats. They say to look at puddling vs # of coats.
I could sand between coats as it does raise the grain slightly but since the floor has texture I choose to not bother. I told the girls to stay off it for a week but it fully cures in a month.
Quote from: shinnlinger on January 02, 2016, 11:05:31 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_8162.JPG)
that there is just magical!! Something about turning a house into a home comes to mind smiley_clapping
I'm curious how the finish on your floor is holding up after a year? We will be starting our timber frame this spring and plan on doing a pine floor. I have been looking at doing an oil finish and so far I'm sold as far as looks and ease of repair vs poly, an important factor at our house with 2 hounds, cats, dirtbikes, skis, etc. We aren't worried about dents etc, we prefer the "lived in and used" look compared to eat off the floor perfection.
@shinnnlinger, good question mr 88.
very nice. I did a similar job on my gun room. Love a rustic pine plank floor.
Quote from: shinnlinger on January 18, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
For this room, I started with 60 grit and worked it both ways and then followed up with 80. It went faster but you can still see saw marks combined with almost too smooth, so I don't know if I like it as much.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0081.JPG)
But overall I am pleased...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0080.JPG)
My daughter snuck in and painted some trees on her walls between coats...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/IMG_0082.JPG)
Awesome! I have been procrastinating over my floor for a few years now and seeing this thread has motivated me. I have the pine ready and was just debating whether I would T&G it or not? and what to coat it with. Looks like you went flat, tight together with biscuits on the end and that's it? Then just used Tongue oil?
Last question: How much Tongue Oil? I'm looking on the site but can't seem to see something that says 1 gallon = so many square feet...but I'll keep looking!
QuoteHow to Calculate How Much Tung Oil for a Hardwood Floor
Here is a way to calculate how much Pure Tung Oil and Citrus Solvent you may need to finish the floor. This formula will assume you are cutting the oil one to one with solvent. Each gallon of oil will cover approximately 400 square feet undiluted. By diluting the oil one to one with solvent, it will cover 800 square feet. In our example we will assume you have 500 square feet to cover.
Answered my question once I did a little reading ;)
I am also curious how the nailed down floor is doing. With standard galvies I'd be worried about movement.
I have always liked the look of a rustic pine floor, BUT I dearly love what your daughter did with the wall, she is one talented lady.
Hello,
I used ring shanks and spiral nails on my floor and am still well pleased with the movement, out lack thereof, of the gaps. Yes they open up some in the winter and close up some in the summer, but they have been very stable, as air dried white pine is known for. My fallback position was to cram hemp rope in the gaps if they got too big but that hasn't happened. Wall painting still there as well....