English stairs glossary?

[Satamax]

Hi guys.

Well, it's driving me nuts! I have a staircase to do, well actualy three between this year and next. And i'm bored to trace on the ground straight away. I'd like to do a little sketchup render before. But there's a term we use in french, which i don't know the translation of, in english.

Balancé, which means you don't have a kite winder, but the turn, even tho is 90°, is spread over several steps.

Like this, balanced (spread) over 5 steps.



http://www.google.fr/search?q=escalier+balanc%C3%A9&safe=off&hl=fr&rlz=1T4ADFA_frFR472FR472&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PMnRUd6EJerD0QXF84GwCA&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1243&bih=519

Could someone please help, and tell me what is the proper translation? Please!

Thanks a lot.

Max.

[beenthere]

Satamax
Nice looking woodworking on that project. Don't know the terminology you are looking for, but maybe someone does.  Balance in the turn works for me. ;)

[GrahamW]

Stamax

According to http://www.tradestairs.com/acatalog/stair-terminology.html they are known as winders (down at the bottom of the page.

Regards

[Satamax]

Thanks a lot guys.

Graham, i know they are winders, i even used the term kite winder, but my question is more specific. Since the winders seem to exist only in the part where the stairs turn, while "balancing" means that you spread the angles a bit further before and/or after the turn.  But finaly you helped, since you said this, i tried "winder stairs layout" and there's some sites showing the proper way  ;D

http://www.google.fr/search?q=winder+stairs+layout&safe=off&hl=fr&rlz=1T4ADFA_frFR472FR472&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=D-nRUb7AO6r20gW2_oH4DQ&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1491&bih=622

Still doesn't give me the proper word for faning/spaning/balancing the stairs. As it seem winder is a generic term.

Further  research seem to lead to the term balanced as well http://www.archidigm.com/classroom/adt_4_development_guide/adt_4_dg_part_7.htm  Paragraph number four.  Well, as it seems, there's plenty of people talking gibberish or out of their A.... regarding balanced stairs!  If there's three steps in a 90° turn, or even four, but angles don't spread to the straight portions of the stairs, to evenize the steps, it'ch not balanched!

Thanks a lot anyway.

[Mooseherder]

Is the word you're looking for "symmetry" or perhaps rotational symmetry?

[Satamax]

Thanks a lot Mooseherder. But it isn't neither symetry or rotational symetry.

I'm devising a new method with a real stepline (middle line on the stairs or a line 50 cm away from the internal stringer) and a theoretical stepline. Seems to work, nearly. All drawn with calipers. Tomorow, i'll go from the 1/5th drawing, to real life 1/1 drawing.

Thanks again.

Max.

[Satamax]

So, here you go, circular function balancing of stairs.



I devised this technique today. It took me a bit of thinking.

[Lud]

Just speculating here,   but we turn "in" to a turn.   We're level on the straight.   I'm postulating that it would make sense to allow  a few degrees of "up" on the outside of the steps throughout the turn before you came back to level on the next straight

Turns are banked on the track, right? 8) 8) :D ;D

[ancjr]

Equally divided?  Proportioning?  It looks like yu're attempting to make the stairs a portion of a circle, as in slicing a pie.  I'm assuming you're looking for the math / geometry for designing the stairs.  It's beyond my expertise, just offering some possible synonyms. 

[jamesamd]

Satamax I would pm the stair guy,here   http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/28791-walnut-open-stair-w-4-tread-winder-refurnished-newl-hand-rail.html

Jim

[Satamax]

Thanks a lot guys!

Just speculating here,   but we turn "in" to a turn.   We're level on the straight.   I'm postulating that it would make sense to allow  a few degrees of "up" on the outside of the steps throughout the turn before you came back to level on the next straight

Turns are banked on the track, right? 8) 8) :D ;D

Thanks a lot Lud, this would only work when drunk, falling down the stairs.  That's the only moment you would gain enough speed to take advantage of the raised corner  ;D

Equally divided?  Proportioning?  It looks like yu're attempting to make the stairs a portion of a circle, as in slicing a pie.  I'm assuming you're looking for the math / geometry for designing the stairs.  It's beyond my expertise, just offering some possible synonyms.

Equal temperament stairs, or the 18th root of 18! ;D

Satamax I would pm the stair guy,here   http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/28791-walnut-open-stair-w-4-tread-winder-refurnished-newl-hand-rail.html

Jim

Thanks a lot Jim. I did. We'll see what he says.

[t f flippo]

Satamax,
Sorry to be late getting in on the discussion.
Beautiful woodwork in your OP pic.
To answer your question, I don't know of a term or word other than 'winder'.

I think you're right on with your Reply#6. Very impressive work.

American Technical Society 'fundamentals of Carpentry' vol.#2  3rd ed. :
Referring to winding stairs ".....the tread width on the line of travel is nearly the same as that on the straight flight."

"The general rule that the line of travel should be 18 inches from the point of convergence of the riser faces does not always hold true when this point is away from the newel post. The carpenter will have to study his full layout in order to work out the stairs on a radius which will result in treads that will be as safe as possible for the problem."

May I suggest : A Treatise on Stairbuilding & Handrailings  by W & A Mowat
                       Circular Work in Carpentry and Joinery  by George Collings

            The Audels  and ATS publications are great sources of information, especially the early additions.

Regards,  tc

[Satamax]

I exchanged few messages with the guy Jim recomended.  Very nice guy.

Well, he says winder. No mater what type.

If ever this can be of some use to someone.

The drawing looks like this now. There's a bug on step seven and eight. I modified them, a smidge, Brought inside of the step 7's nose 1cm into the 6th, still keeping the 25cm spacing on the walk line. And dis the same on step 8, only that this time i took 2cm

The drawing i'm posting isn't corected. So you can see the bug. Simple reason. In the bend of the step line, dots are closer together compared to the perpendicular lines they're facing. And when the line gets back to straight it seems to make my technique a bit buggy.

Otherwise, it's dead simple.

Draw a walk line, with a quater round where needed. The guy i spoke with says 18 inches from the inside of the stairs. Here it's usualy 50cm. Space your steps on it. Here i used 25cm (plus nose of 3cm which i add after) Then draw a theoretical walk line curve. Between the nose of the first step you want to balance to the last step you want to balance (the three big caliper lines, all equal. ) Space your steps on it, 25cm again.  (or whatever step lengh you want it just needs to be the same on both lines) and start tracing circles of twice the step's lenght or just caliper's lines where they cross on the inside of the stairs. Join the crossings of the caliper's lines to the step spacing points on the real walk line, and you're done. The two proper lines are the circle drawn from the nose from the preceding step, and the circle drawn from the nose of the following step.

Well, i hope this is clear enough with the drawing.

HTH.

Max.

[Satamax]

Well, coming allong, i wouldn't say either nicely or smoothly. But coming along.

[Lud]

Looks like you angled them a tiny bit.........like i suggested! :D :D :D

Fine looking in all regards.  Will it be transported in one piece or components? ???

[Satamax]

Fited!

[beenthere]

 8)
From the pictures, the project looks very successful. Not easy to do, but sure looks good.

Are these stairs going to a wine cellar?

Do you need to make hand railings now to match the stairs?

[Satamax]

Hi Beenthere.

Wine cellar? Nope, that's under a roof, not the best place to keep wine. That's from third to fourth floor. 322cm rise (about 10'6" between floors) It gonna be encased in few plasterboard walls. Which is a shame. But the owner wants a wall for his telly. It will have a right hand, handrail, atached to the wall.  When you say, it's not easy to do, well, with practice, it can be. It's not a half turn with rounded stringers, all moulded and turned spindles.

Check this video.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5DGfq4Tci8

He's good. That's the proper way to do spiral, instead of laminating the stringer. And if you check the links to the right, he's got a "rampe débillardé" which is even more impressive for thoses who know, but doesn't show as much of the process. He's kept the secrets ;D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Satamax.....watch your whole video.

I am just as impressed with your video as I am your work.

You are one talented guy! I really appreciate you sharing your work. 

[Satamax]

Hi Poston.

Well, that's not my video.

Just from a guy further south from me. About 150 miles.  But he's good.  That's the proper way to have a helicoidal stringer with the same wood for the whole lengh. I'm far from his expertise, but i'm working on it. Tho, i'm keener on timber framing than stairs. I'd like to be good at "colombage" which is timber framing in the french, english and german way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh2UTMcu3xg

May be one day.