automatic mill setup

[Bert]

I need a source for assistance in setting up a used automatic circle mill in PA. This was not disassembled by me, but will be put back together by me. For the most part, its simple hydraulic plumbing. But the wiring for the setworks is all disconnected and that where the trouble comes in. I need someone who can decipher this and I'll be good to go. The mill is a CMC with Mass setworks. The actual mill setup, feedworks, etc is all ready just need to get these wires squared away. Thanks for any help.

[r.man]

Bert, do you need wiring diagrams or help identifying wires or something else?

[Bert]

Well, I have all the sawmill manuals etc. What i need help with is the 100 (estimate) small wires that run from the sawyer booth over to the carriage. These were all disconnected from the carriage end. These are what tells the hydraulics what to do on the carriage end. So yes, a wiring diagram would be helpful. An expert who'd be willing to spend the day with me would be more helpful. Or as a last resort, a new setworks system that can be used with this mill. Basically, I'm just looking for someone who might  say, "hey- Ive done this before and this is the route I followed"

[Jeff]

That wiring Harness should be color coded with little paper numbered tags on a cmc mill, but the tags usually end up missing over time.  Does this system have a cam box on the carriage?  If so all the wires from the cab  should run along the pantagraph, then to the cam box which should also include all the terminal blocks to connect the wires to the carriage. Some of those wires will run straight through the box to other parts of the carriage.


Also, CMC runs extra wires in the harness as spares, so not all of them get hooked up.

Depending on the mill, you will have wires for setworks, forward and reverse limit switches, tapers, your up and down and in and out dog controls and on board log turner if equipped, which is just a solenoid that trips a stop to keep the dogs from coming down at the top, forcing them up from the bottom to flip the log from the underside..

[Bert]

Jeff- Yes this does have the cam box on the carriage and yes some of the number tags are still there. Most are not. Any way to tell what the ones missing numbers are for. I thought maybe if I traced the wires back to the cab and find what switch they go to I might know what number to hook them to on the carriage. I just dont want smoke anything when i turn the power on. Is this a difficult system per your recollection or is eveything straight forward. When I hold a bundle of wires in my hand with no real clue what they hook to its a bit concerning.

[Jeff]

All of your cab control switches should go to the lower part of your sawbooth podium.  In there there should be a large junction box. There should be tags on the wires at that location as well.  Are the numbers still available on the junction blocks, in the cam box, if you identify the wire coming from the cab?

You can make yourself a continuity tester to test the wires from the podium, to the end of the wires that are unhooked from the carriage to identify them.

The most difficult part of the system is if you develop a short or break in a wire. They can be a bear to find. 


Does this look anything like things in your cab?

[Bert]

Yes jeff! Thats the one. As I search the forum you ran one of these mills. I might pick your brain quite a bit over the next couple of months if thats alright. Your controls are much the same as mine. Do the numbers on the operator end match the ones in the cam box? If so, this might be simpler than i anticipated. Yours are nice and shiny, mine are kinda dirty but i can still see the numbers on the posts. I dont plan to build stacks or anything like that, I just want a few presets 4/4, 8/4 etc. As best i can tell, the feed speed, log turner, log deck etc are direct hydraulic control with no electrical input.

[Ron Wenrich]

What part of PA are you located?  Jim Kline from Kline's Mill Supply has put in a bunch of mills.  He's down in Pennsburg, close to Quakerstown.  He also had a shop in Somerset.  He might be able to help.  I can find a number if you need it.

We use a guy that's an engineer who's good with electrical wiring and hydraulics.  He's retired, but still does some work.  He'd probably talk with you on the phone.  Maybe visit if you're not too far. 

[Jeff]

I spent over 20 years on that particular mill keeping it running and electrical breakdowns are the biggest downtime culprit there was/is.

Yes, the numbers in that lower podium correspond with the numbers in the cam box.  Its been almost 6 years since I've had to wrestle with that mill, but I should remember quite a bit. You are welcome to call me if you think it will help. To bad you were not closer, I'd come get my hands dirty.  

In the second photo, in that top control box, in the box, upper left corner, that is your power supply. The next little plugin as the microswitch for setting the delay on your bottom dog turners. The next ones are solenoids for various other functions.

On the first photo, closed lid. The top row of push switches are the set select buttons. You push it to select. You push another one to select a different set, and the first one will pop back up. I know some some of the mills has a rotary selector for the sets instead of the buttons.

the bottom row of switches you see are the taper controls for each head block.  The taper return to normal switch is on the left hand control I THINK.  

As best i can tell, the feed speed, log turner, log deck etc are direct hydraulic control with no electrical input.

That is correct.

[r.man]

I had a similar problem with a 4 foot ring debarker that was mostly electric and electric over hydraulic. All and I mean all the control wires had been cut or disconnected at the motor control center. Not one of the 50ish wires were marked and they were all red. I bought a fairly inexpensive tracking device. For about 60 dollars it has a clip on unit to put on the known end of a wire and a small wand that emits a tone when it gets near the same wire. It was invaluable and allowed me to track the wires without removing them. Then it was a matter of hand tracing switch location to the terminal strip. Did I mention that there was no schematic or operators manual for this machine. Wired it all up and then debugged it. Not as high tech as your setworks but the same basic principle. I would suggest that you start by hooking up the wires that you know and then sort the ones that pass through the connection box by length which might eliminate some others based on where they will reach. What you have left should be more manageable and a less daunting task.  

[Bert]

I am about 25 miles sw of Somerset and am familiar with Jim. This project is still in its infancy and I'm just getting started into it. Its good to know there are resources available for help on this. Jeff has already solved one of my major headaches I think. I had no idea those numbers corresponded. I can use a continuity tester and identify the wires  with no problem, and  Jeff mine does have the rotatary selector for the sets. I'm going to try and tackle the wiring this weekend. I doubt i complete but get started anyhow.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

And Welcome to The Forum Bert  ;) ;D 8) 8) 8)

I dont have anything to add on the setworks help side of things as I am use to dealing with Linear , Direct Hyd and Air setworks  ;) Jeff and Ron have it covered  ;) ;D 8)

R Man Dont you love it when some bloody Idiot butchers a piece of equipment hey Mate  ??? :  ;)

Regards Chris

[Jeff]

Bert, does the mill have a vertical edger?  If so you may have wiring for those controls as well, but they do not cross on the pantagraph. I know some mills just had a control stick directly to a valve body, but ours was solenoid driven with thumb switch controls on the right control stick.

[Meadows Miller]

Jeff that was one thing I was unsure of with that new Meadows i was looking at trying to get into a couple of years back was the fact that both saws where running direct of valves and just a ruler gauge on the back of the vert edger frame if i had gone ahead with getting it i would have just got it as is then rigged up a kara style electronic setworks with a linear adjuster that runs off 240 volts down the track so I would know that all  my wing boards where going to be spot on Mate

Regards Chris

[Jeff]

The manual controls to the valves are just as accurate, only a bit more physically taxing. Of the 3 different automatic mills I ran,  Renco, Morbark then CMC, the first two both had direct hydraulic controls to the right side on a 4 way valve. You could move the blade up and down in two directions, and together and apart to adjust board width in the other two directions.